Calling the online petition signed by over 150,000 people a “calculated smear campaign,” by gay activists to remove the Exodus International app, the president of the Christian organization responded to Apple’s decision to pull it from the iTunes store.
Here’s an excerpt of what Exodus President Alan Chambers has to say about Apple’s decision:
Here is my point. It is becoming apparently clear that there is no room in this culture for diversity of thought or opinion. It goes beyond Apple having the right to discriminate. It is the fact that simply offering someone support as THEY CHOOSE to live their life through the filter of their faith rather than their sexuality is now considered not only offensive, but also dangerous. People with biblical convictions are now being labeled bigoted and homophobic for simply upholding someone’s right to self-determine how they want to live their lives. It’s astounding.
Do you think this decision is going to come back and bite Apple in the you-know-what?
Nicole Martinelli is a San Francisco freelance writer who heads up Cult of Mac Magazine, our weekly publication available on iTunes. You can find her on Twitter and Google+. If you’re doing something new, cool and Apple-related, email her.
193 responses to “Christian Group: Freedom of Expression & Respect for Diversity? There is No App for that!”
No, it will not bit Apple. Regardless of personal views and thoughts, Apple does not have to sell anything they do not want to. It’s strictly a business decision. If the Westboro Baptist Church came out with offensive T-shirts, then it’s not stifling Freedom of Expression if Hot Topic didn’t want to sell them in their store. Apple has that right to refuse to sell what they don’t want.
agreed, thank you Alan Chambers, i hope that apple will take the time to think about freedom of choice!
Nope. Apple isn’t a part of the government that is required to adhere to the First Amendment Freedom of Speech clause . Apple is a company that looks out for its own interests. If that many people want the app gone, then it’s gone. There are quite a few of them who own iOS devices and Apple wants to keep their business.
No. This will not bother Apple a bit. Everyone knows how these crazy religious nuts like to think they are right when in reality, they are wrong. Apple is not a government and can decide what to accept in their app store and what to kick out. They made the right decision.
If Exodus want to offer “someone support as THEY CHOOSE to live their life through the filter of their faith rather than their sexuality” perhaps they should start with Catholic priests, who seem to need it more…
I agree with Jim, Paul A. and TGB. Apple doesn’t have to sell this on their App store. In a way, this organization complaining that their product isn’t being sold is like a Nazi organization complaining that their flags aren’t being sold at Walmart.
The majority of the world wouldn’t be so hard on people who call themselves gay if they would just finally stop this “Born this way” game and say they live their life based on a choice they made. Men are not born forcing an exaggerated lisp, calling other men “girlfriend”, feeling an insatiable need to wear women’s beauty products, or sashaying around in public in ways no woman would ever do. Women are also not inherently born with the need to become overweight, shave off all of their hair, duct tape their breasts down, and dress up like they’re attending a Brawny-Man halloween party every day. These behaviors are either choice or mental illness. Not all gay people do these things, but you all know exactly what I’m talking about. Sure there is a minority that you would never even know was gay but that fraction of people doesn’t take away from the obvious. Since I’ve grown up around people who are gay my whole life, I refuse to say they’re all mentally ill. All of them however say its choice and are embarrased by people who say its genetic. Every aspect of how we live is either choice, or based on choices that were made. Argue all you want, even that is a choice but it doesn’t change anything. Gay, straight, both, its all 100% choice.
And why do those choices bother you?
Here’s a question – would Apple ban an app that purports to help people make a choice to live life as an atheist and to overcome their religious tendencies? I doubt it.
Can’t this group just Shut up!?!
This is not about being gay, changing your sexual orientation, or your religious craziness. This is about a business decision ONLY.
Alan Chambers you are a bigot and a moron. Stay away from the real world.
Wow you are a true moron. Who died made you a psychiatrist? You must be one of those bible thumping idiots who secretly thinks transgendered men are women.
You are getting mixed up between identifying as gay and acting in a sterotypically gay or lesbian way and sexual orientation. No one makes a choice about their sexual orientation and who they are attracted to. The choice is to live and love honestly, to be honest to yourself and to follow where your heart leads or to go against your nature and try to form relationships and have sex with the opposite sex without attraction or sexual love. How kind of you to say we are not mentally ill because you’ve grown up around gay people. Don’t you think you are being a little arrogant with your I know it’s a choice. How do you know it’s a choice, are you gay and have made the choice to be straight? If you are straight when did you choose to be straight? Don’t you think gay and lesbian people many who say they have no choice about who they are attracted to might know better than you whether they made a choice or not.
You’re a moron. You say you chose to be straight? So you were once attracted to men, but eventually decided to go with women?
You’re a closeted homosexual. Admit it, and stop posting nonsense!
Plain and simple! Next time u make an app, FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES, RULES AND REGULATIONS so It doesnt get pulled off…not that hard… It’s not APPLES fault that YOUR “religion/cult/beliefs” offend large groups of audiences… Next time start a religion that doesn’t do any of it… All we can do now is wait for the next messiah to clear all the “same sex” relations and issues…. But until then ALL WE CAN DO IS WAIT AND CONTINUE WITH OUR LIVES AND OUR DOWNLOADS! great article btw
although they are not a government, they don’t have the right to ignore democratic rights
Christian? Are they racist about Gay people? I’m not homosexual but I respect. Do NOT respect other sexuality mean “RACIST” too. Learn to respect others.
That’s a good idea! I am *so* going to write that app, right after I write an app that helps them overcome their sanctimonious douche-bag tendencies… Oh wait, same thing!
Strange that Alan Chambers has the ability to become philosophical? He cannot be a true Christian, surely, as they are not able to think for themselves. I mean one example is that they all think the world is flat! Ask one to point to heaven and they will point “up” or to point to hell and they will tell you it is below. If you remember that the world is in fact round then we have a problem don’t we? Oops. Go out tonight and stare at the stars (if you can see them) and you will quickly realize that this is all a load of bullshit.
There is no “democratic right” [sic] to have your material sold on someone else’s private property. Put it this way – could a gay group force a church to sell gay rights material in a church gift store or family center? Why not? Isn’t it gay groups’ “democratic right” to have their voice heard?
If the government was banning Exodus’ material, you’d have a point, but Apple is not the government and the App Store is private property. You have no 1st Amendment rights on someone else’s front lawn or in their store.
This group is king at hypocrisy.
Yeah, and I hope that Exodus will think about freedom of choice and allow gay rights groups to demonstrate on church property, sell gay books and DVDs from their stores, and allow gay speakers to give sermons. After all, doesn’t Exodus believe in freedom?
Wow, generalizing Christians as “not able to think for themselves” is falling in the same line of thinking of those who say all Muslims are terrorists. Congratluations, you are as good at using logic as those people.
Yes, I’m sure Exodus believes in personal freedom, through the filter of faith. And per most Christian denominations allowing “gay rights groups to demonstrate on church property, sell gay books and DVDs from their stores, and allow gay speakers to give sermons” would be contrary to that filter of faith. People are free to be gay just don’t get mad at me because my religion considers acting on gay feelings to be a sin. My religion also considers getting drunk to be a sin, but people are free to get drunk if they want to. Just don’t call yourself a Christian and try to do these things.
To be fair, I understand anti-Christian sentiment. We’ve all met the offensive holier-than-thous. I love this bumper sticker: “It’s not God I have a problem with, it’s his fan club.” A lot of Christians, nay, the majority, fall short of the ideals they strive to live because they either don’t get it or they’re simply human. But let’s be clear: Jesus Christ’s followers may misrepresent Him, but Jesus was not a hater, He is love. Don’t judge Christianity based on imperfect people but on the founder. Read about Him in Matthew through John in the Bible. He loved everyone, especially sinners. He was an anti-establishment revolutionary and was angered by haters.
We seem to be living in a society where all beliefs and belief systems are welcomed and respected but Christianity, where it’s unacceptable to criticize anyone except Christians, where self help books are all the rage, counseling and therapy by human beings is cool, but if we seek God’s help, that’s weak or ignorant. Does anyone not see the hypocrisy in that? Isn’t it time we as a society offered Christians (imperfect though we be) the same respect we give every other group?
Exactly! Thank you.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceable to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
–1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States–
I do not see “expression” mentioned here. Religion is a choice, but since people don’t choose to be attracted to the same sex, that can’t apply here.
Speech is the verbal declaration of thoughts, opinions and ideas, and the press is the written declaration. So, someone with same sex-attraction does have a right to declare that, but what about the other ways of homosexuality express such as appearance. Is a same-sex attraction a thought? Thoughts can be controlled, and one’s way of thinking can be changed. So how is then homosexuality a thought if it isn’t a choice? The same goes with ideas and opinions. Sorry, appearance is not covered by the first amendment PERIOD. However, the ninth amendment may cover appearance. I think the 9th covers all our daily decisions such as diet, clothing, bathing, and even medicine. Just trying to clear up the 1st amendment with the fact that it has been misconstrued. There are other amendments. Why don’t people start using the 9th to their advantage instead?
Now, did Apple Inc. make a good decision. Well, time will tell. It might not even make a difference whether they pulled it or not. There are many “christians” out there that can have a business effect on Apple Inc. also,. In reality, it didn’t even matter whether it stayed on or not for either Exodus International or Truth Wins Out. Apple was put between two large groups of people. Either decision they made could have potential business problems, and it was actually rude of Truth Wins Out to put Apple Inc. in such a position to where either decision they made would have had negative consequences. It would have been just as rude for Exodus International to “petition” for the removal of a pro-homosexual or Islamic app. Apple Inc. had to do something being placed between a rock and a hard place.
No, NOT at all!
TIM COOK would not allow this at ALL haha
because apple’s ceo in place of steve jobs is openly gay, and more power to him!
Another sad and obviously confused individual. Good luck to you dude/dudette/whatever!
I didn’t know gays came from a country, how can it be racist when being gay isn’t even a race… you’re dumb. You can respect a person but not respect their life style. There is a big difference.
apple… is… gay… ? ;)
no cheeky comments from the gay community on this one eh?
Does their app actually do anything that can’t be done in a web app? Does it have functionality that requires iOS to broadcast their content? Just wondering, because Apple doesn’t/can’t censor web apps, which weakens their argument imo.
I have to say I agree with Apple’s decision to pull this app on the grounds that it contains content that can reasonably be called offensive. Apple has a tough PR position in cases like this, but they probably shouldn’t have admitted the app into the App Store in the first place. If you want porn, politics or religion, go to the web. Simple.
It’s not so-called Christians I despise, it’s people who use their fairy-tale based belief system to discriminate against people they dislike. I couldn’t care less what delusion one uses to guide oneself through life, just don’t expect me to accept the derived judgements of those delusions as law of the land. I respect people that keep their beliefs to themselves, and act out of respect for others, not those who feel compelled to share their idiotic beliefs and expect conformity to those beliefs.
I can see by the comments here how there are many anti-religious bigots who should have their apps banned too. Their comments demonstrate their total ignorance of Exodus. Christianphobic, hateful and ignorant, not to mention pro-censorship and anti-democratic.
If biblical convictions lead them to be bigoted and homophobic maybe that should clue them in that their Bible is both evil and a scourge on society.
Always funny reading statements like that from these religious nuts who PROTEST when another religion as any sort of app or anything yet their own religion/views? PROTECTED!
Hypocrites
Alright Nicole, you’ve kind of run this topic into the ground. Have anything else?
Believe it or not I swore I wouldn’t write anything on this today…I do believe we can move on, further developments permitting…
And by phrasing it that way, its clear that they see the two “choices,” as incompatible. They seem very passive aggressive to me. They seem to believe they are actually helping people but in-between the lines of their messages of support are, “you can’t be a christian if you’re gay.”
The App Store is just like any other store psychical or online. Apple, just as stores like Amazon, or Target, Walmart, or Newegg, are making the choice to not allow a particular product to be sold. It is not a right to be able to sell an app in the App store. You couldn’t walk into a christian bookstore and purchase a copy of Out magazine, a well known and well respected publication for the LGBT community. Those book stores are making the choice to not sell that product, as an openly gay man, should I be offended because I can’t purchase it in one of those stores? The answer of course is no. Exodus International needs to get over it and move on.
But it is offensive and it is dangerous, they are bigoted and they are homophobic. I respect apple as a company for having the balls to take a moral stance on this, rather than just remain impartial in order to boost perception and profits.
Of course they do, if you don’t like their stance, don’t buy their products. They can ignore whatever philosophical stand point they want. Look at Foxcon, if you don’t like that their products are made there, don’t buy them :D
Of course they do, if you don’t like their stance, don’t buy their products. They can ignore whatever philosophical stand point they want. Look at Foxcon, if you don’t like that their products are made there, don’t buy them :D
Unless…… it was all a clever marketing ploy in the first place :D
“you can’t be a Christian if you’re gay.” – for Christian denominations, that follow the Bible, that would be a true statement, just like you can’t actively be a drunk and a Christian but you can be a former drunk and a Christian. According to Christianity as long as you acknowledge you’re a sinner, repent (ask Jesus Christ to forgive your sins and lead your life) and abstain from sin as much as humanly possible and repeat this process while wholeheartedly trying not to repeat your past sins then you are saved and are a Christian. But if you refuse to acknowledge your sins, then you can’t be saved nor can you be a true Christian.
Is there an application to cure christianity?
I appreciate that. These kind of issues that divide the country also go pretty far to divide the users here. Abortion would probably be as volatile a topic and people as likely to change their existing beliefs. Your articles are good and I look forward to what the future holds.
What’s the problem with a difference of option? The classic line: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Personally, as a Christian I subscribe to this, but it’s a shame so many people who objected to this app don’t.
Thats the problem with not proof reading. ‘What’s the problem with a difference of opinion?
Yea, the militant gays are doing the whole movement harm and showing their true colors at the same time. Tolerance seems purely reserved for them. If I used some of the quotes by posters here and inserted “gay” in the place of the churches they are ripping into they would be absolutely offended. Actually, that sounds entertaining. Let me pick one.
Michael Parmeley- “If the __Gay__ convictions lead them to be bigoted and anti-religious maybe that should clue them in that their ___homosexuality__ is both evil and a scourge on society.
I’m not going to go into detail but this is obvious nonsense.
“Following the bible” means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, the Bible cannot be literally interpreted since it contains so many conflicting messages, values, instructions and prohibitions. For instance by your definition you can’t be a true Christian unless you stone young women to death for adultery, which is also in the bible along with a lot of other horrible cruel nonsense. there are many Christian groups (whole countries in fact) that believe themselves to be good christians following the bible who also believe homosexuality is not a sin. Try to be a little more open minded and turn the other cheek fella. It’s what Jesus would do.
Especially when he was sleeping naked with his male friend Lazarus, or don’t you remember that part? ;)
Plain and Simple – there are gay apps, there should be anti-gay apps. Either allow them all or allow none of them.
I totally agree with them, “there is no room in this culture for diversity of thought or opinion.” and there shouldn’t be until gay and lesbian people are treated the same as everyone else and not discriminiated against but society trying to “change” them
I thought that the Exodus app had a different intent or focus than the Manhattan Declaration app, whose purpose seemed primarily to “incite” (let’s face it) homophobic beliefs. However, while I felt the Exodus app had a case for free speech, I’m still glad it’s gone, because I do think people who have these anti-gay beliefs *should* be marginalized – this isn’t a “belief’s” issue, a I-simply-have-a-different-belief-than-you, it’s a core human rights issue, which is something so many of these “Christians” will never understand, because they don’t see gay people as being able to truly love.
Regarding the whole “Apple is a corporation not the government” argument, though, what about eHarmony? Do you think there are any similarities? They didn’t accept gays because of their beliefs, but they had to change that in order to not discriminate, and they’re a private company. Wouldn’t Apple technically have to accept all beliefs as well? (we’re assuming that for government purposes racial and anti-Semetic beliefs are taboo but anti-gay beliefs are not)
Footnote: it’s pretty ignorant for someone to believe (especially according to the Bible) that it’s better for someone to be alone, than to have the chance to be in a significant relationship.
“Faiiry-tale,” “delusion,” “idiotic”… you are absolutely effusive in your “respect for others.” As I said, many Christians misbehave, but someone’s got to be an adult first.
Cant you shut up? Marko!
Hey big prof – you got that totally wrong! Thats the old testament – i even know that and im no scholar! Your probably the typically guy who collects various stories from various sources and comes to a strong conclusion about something you know nothing about!
With all due respect, your post is nonsense because you don’t understand Christianity or the Bible, for that matter. You say that “the Bible cannot be literally interpreted since it contains so many conflicting messages, values, instruction and prohibitions.” I disagree. You go on to state something that was given to the Jews, under a theocracy, in something that is called the Law. Well, as a gentile, and a Christian, I don’t live under the Law, and in fact, one of the Epistles gives us the reason why that is:
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Galations 3:10-14)
Further, how did Jesus rebuke the pharisees who were about to stone the woman guilty of adultery? “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” (John 8:7) So, from a Christian perspective, you’re wrong in your assessment. Like adultery, homosexuality is considered a sin in the Bible. That’s not bashing on persons with homosexuality; it’s just a fact of scripture. Just like, for example, as a Christian, I am also a sinner in need of one who forgives sins. I’m never told, as a Christian, that I have any right to judge somebody else’s sin by stoning them, harming them, or killing them. In fact, I’m probably just as guilty if not more guilty.
As for your last statement, it’s disgusting, untrue, and unintellectual.
yes they do.
you know why?
their not the government.
so there’s no democracy.
that’s why you can’t “vote ” yourself a raise Einstein.
Wooooooooooah!
witty comeback.
he’s giving his honest opinion.
this an open dialog.
he’s not visiting your house.
he does not owe you any special discord when speaking his mind.
Yeah!
those damn gays should just shut-up and let us spout our ignorant beliefs.
their doing harm! we doing God’s work, helping others!
i don’t like the talking ones. they think they’re better than me.
i like the funny ones, like on tv. they make me laugh, so their OK.
some of those homos just don’t know their place.
/s
I am Gay Man, I am a Luthern Christian, I am Apple Fan Boy and yes I signed the petition to have the app removed. Apple’s App store is a store it can “sell” any app they like but like any store you have to listen to your shoppers. People’s voices where Company’s are concerned lies in their money and where they choose to spend it.
likewise. :)
well said.
Exactly. Mr Exodus forgets that Apple is a private company. One that could have rejected the app from the start. But for whatever reason decided to put it out in the public court to see the reaction. Which was dissent.
By the same token, if Exodus etc were to get that many names on a petition calling some Gay Dating App ‘offensive’ it would most likely be removed as well.
eharmony wasn’t actually forced to do anything. They were sued and settled without admitting any wrongdoing. No judgement either way was made.
Probably not. Just like the Manhattan Declaration App. Apple isn’t blocking access to either site so both groups can play that game just like the porn companies do.
More to the point, it says Congress and laws. Not “no company shall make a policy about what they sell . . .”
So folks yelling First Amendment at Apple are basically wasting their breathe
You could say the same thing about Muslims. yes some of them are loony and bombers and such, but just because some terrorists are Muslims doesn’t equal all Muslims are terrorists.
There is no ‘democratic right’ to sell your stuff in any store you choose.
You have freedom of choice. You can choose to jailbreak your phone (which is legal by the by) and buy apps from wherever you wish.
It’s funny how you see all these gay people freak out on one app, but you don’t see Christians freak out on the gay apps. I think the gay people should suck it up and deal with it like the Christian people do on gay apps.
No respect for diversity actually came from Exodus in the first place.
And don’t even start about your studpid constitutional rights. Apple is private property – they may or may not allow anything in their own store. If you don’t like their rules, take your toys to another sandbox.
“We seem to be living in a society where all beliefs and belief systems are welcomed and respected but Christianity”
I call bull. Christianity is everywhere. In media, culture, news, and unfortunately in government. What is rightly objected to and railed against is the cruelty and bigotry that the Christian church uses to condemn and judge others who don’t follow their particular sect’s dogma.
Exodus International has one mission: Hate
Apple was right to pull this bigoted and hateful application.
Not all Christians ignore Matthew 7:1 or Matthew 6:5-7
Coming from a country would be a nationality not a race.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation not a “life style”.
I would call YOU dumb though, because that is not nice.
I think it is clear what aramishero was trying to say. Perhaps a better word would have been bigotry but still aramishero’s point is valid and appreciated.
These people are idiots for publishing an anti-gay app to a company with an openly gay COO
Nicole, I mentioned to you in an earlier comment that I had written to Exodus. Well, they still have not written me back, not even to say, “Thank you for your message.” (And yes, I have checked my SPAM filters.)
At this point, I will admit that I am a born-again Christian who does not disagree with the general content of the Exodus app. I have also come to see the label “gay Christian” for what it truly is — an oxymoron. If one was truly homosexual “from birth,” it would then be a genuine sin for Christians or anyone else to condemn the gay lifestyle or encourage a gay person to be different. But biblically and medically speaking, it becomes clear that homosexuality is a “personal choice” outside the will of God rather than an uncontrollable sexual destiny created by God (directly, or by accident); hence my support for the generally positive and helpful aim of the Exodus app. I have friends who are gay. I used to work with many homosexual people. I have a great love for them, as I do anyone who also needs the love of Christ. I simply cannot “turn a blind eye toward” or “condone” a lifestyle that is so clearly outside positive biblical truth. And again, that is why I am not against the content of the Exodus app.
This is why I find Exodus’ apathy toward those who write them quite unfortunate and surprising, especially those who do not disagree with Exodus. And in light of the problems their app has, which Cult of Mac has reported on too, perhaps it is best that the app was pulled; at least, until they can make it better and give a higher level of priority to answering their emails. For if their focus is not on “people,” perhaps it’s time to stop and self-evaluate.
Religion is mental illness.
I’ve believed for a long time that if Christ were to return, the first thing he’d do is hire a phalanx of lawyers to distance himself from the Christian faith. When I look at the Christian community I find avarice, first and foremost. Next I find abuse of judgement, focused on anything outside of the particular cult they enjoy. The contemporary Christian community has created Jesus in their own image.
Exodus created the app for one reason alone: to draw attention to itself. Idolatry. Look it up.
But Muslims that disrespect their women deserve the same treatment.
None of my Christian friends have shown any inclination to change their purchasing habits based on Apple’s decision to pull the Exodus app. I know tat’s anecdotal, but it is what I’m experiencing.
All of you against the Exodus International app are anti-Christian, bigots, intolerant, and hateful.
The only thing offensive in this matter are the people who want to silence someone because of their beliefs. I know that if there was a gay-oriented app in the iTunes store and the Christians got it pulled from the app store then you all would say that the Christians were hateful and intolerant.
So how about before you preach to us about being tolerant and respecting gays, how about you practice the very tolerance you preach to us and respect and tolerate the belief of Christians.
Hypocrites.
By the way, Exodus International has recently stood up for the gay community by sending a letter to the Ugandan president sharing their opposition to a proposed law that would outlaw homosexuality.
All of you owe Exodus International a huge apology. You just stabbed the back of people who stand up for you.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I wouldn’t place much blame on EI for not answering your email. You have to know that they probably get thousands of emails a day. I wouldn’t be too surprised that they haven’t gotten to your email.
Though I would agree with you that having a more robust email-answering system would be very beneficial right now…especially now. What if you had been someone who needed their guidance? It is a system that they should probably look at fixing.
So what you’re saying is that if you’re openly gay then you are naturally intolerant of other people’s beliefs?
That is sad. Very sad.
Perhaps you have the same message for those that petitioned to have the app removed? Did you tell those of the petition “If you don’t like their rules, take your toys to another sandbox.”?
I thought not. Be consistent in your opinions.
Sho nuff!!!
So don’t buy apple products.
Don’t sign a petition that silences someone because you don’t agree with them. That is very sad and very unfortunate.
But what is more unfortunate is that you did not support your brothers in Christ when they were seeking to follow Christ’s commandment to “love one another”, and follow St. Paul’s commandment to “Speak the Truth in love.”
everyone has the freedom to choose what they want, buy, read. dont any of you think maybe the gay peps dont want to be gay anymore. wake up and listen, its not your business to control other people!!!
deleted
you are a mental illness.
But not nearly as virulent or as dangerous as religion