Cult of Mac broke the story of the Exodus International app getting removed from the iTunes store yesterday evening. Cupertino still hasn’t opened for business yet, so we are still awaiting a statement from Apple on its policy for content in the store.
The president of Exodus International Alan Chambers warned via Twitter last night that it may be open season on other apps that draw protest.
“It’s official, the @ExodusInl App is no longer in the @AppStore. Incredibly disappointing. Watch out, it could happen to you.”
We’ll keep you posted.
Nicole Martinelli is a San Francisco freelance writer who heads up Cult of Mac Magazine, our weekly publication available on iTunes. You can find her on Twitter and Google+. If you’re doing something new, cool and Apple-related, email her.
190 responses to “Christian Group: Apple pulled our app, watch out”
I dislike bigotry and willful ignorance, but I also dislike censorship. I don’t know if I should feel happy or sad about this.
<— dislikes how apple is pro gay and anti christian
I am so glad they took this app out lets be honest being “gay” is not terrible what is terrible is people who think is it a choice or a “disease”. When did you choose to be straight? It wasn’t a choice and I am very happy that hundreds of thousands petitioned apple to get this app out of the store. You wouldn’t feel as good if it was an app trying to turn straight people gay.
Good. Christians need to get a life instead of trying to run everyone else’s.
Thank you, Apple, for protecting innocent gay teens from these predatory monsters. These people are “Christian” in only the vaguest sense of the word. They hurt people, and their work encourages the stigmatization of gays that drives young GLBT folks to commit suicide a many times the rate of their straight counterparts.
There’s nothing “anti-Christian” about pulling an app that refers to gays as being “the opposite of holiness,” or which belittles the lives led by gay people as being “less” than those led by straight people. I’m sick of right-wing fundamentalists who think they can label themselves as “Christian” and that excuses the horrific things they say about gays and members of other religions.
Bad move by Apple.
You are very wrong. It is a choice to be Gay/Lesbian. If it wasn’t then God would have made us humans differently. Even if you don’t believe in God and believe in Evolution, then Evolution is wrong cause we didn’t evolve that way.
Every scientific study indicates that sexual orientation has a strong genetic component. Twin studies make this very clear. As do the common physical/morphological differences between heterosexaul and homosexual members of the same gender (comparative finger lengths for gay men, for example). There’s also the fact that homosexuality is present amongst all primates (and humans, yes, are primates), as well as most mammals and some birds.
Finally, why do you presume that someone who recognizes the clear scientific evidence for evolution doesn’t believe in God?
The App was stupid religious crap. I am glad Apple pulled it. Frankly speaking I am sick of these f..king religious moron freaks who think they can go around telling people what to do.
I wish all of these a..holes would kindly go away.
Because you cannot believe in Evolution and God/Creationism. They are complete opposites.
They didn’t tell anyone ‘what to do’.
Homosexuality is found throughout nature. Not just in humans. Evolution concerns whole species, not individuals. If everyone of a certain generation was homosexual then the species would end (unless they’d invented IVF). But since a relatively small proportion of the human population is homosexual it has no effect on the survival of our species.
The fact that biological lifeforms evolve does not preclude the existence of a deity. It does preclude a literal interpretation of the first chapter of the Bible, but literal acceptance of every element of the Bible as undeniable fact is not a prerequisite for being a Christian, and is certainly not a prerequisite for being a theist.
Or do you only accept as worthy of respect those beliefs that specifically and completely align with your own?
Apple did the right thing. No room for hate and bigotry on the App Store. Good for them.
I know many Christians that accept evolution and the big bang and a lot of scientific theories. They believe that these happen because God wills it to happen.
And how do we know that homosexuality is not “nature’s way” of population control?
I happen to be a left wing liberal follower of Jesus Christ. I’m sick of gays crying for equal rights but wagging their fingers and fighting for rights to be taken away for others. People are free to download the app or not or download it and delete it. The Bible says what it says. I’ve met few gay people that aim for “holiness” as defined in the Bible. The gay friends I have that DO care, were not against the app whatsoever. I simply wish they gay community would be as open to others as they wish everyone else to be towards them. And I wish Apple would stop choosing sides.
This has nothing to do with “rights.” No one has any rights when it comes to the App Store. I fully support the right of this Exodus Death Cult to exist, to have their tax deduction status, to spread their filth and lies just like any other conservative Christian group is allowed to spread its filth and lies. However, no one has a right to put content on the App Store, and as a corporation, Apple has a responsibility to not publish things that will hurt innocent people.
The goal of Exodus is to maintain, and if possible grow, the dangerous, hateful stigmas faced by gays in our society. These stigmas create an environment that leads gay teens to commit suicide at a far higher rate than straight teens. Suicide rates for the poor souls who actually go through these “reparative” therapies are even higher, and continue to be higher through adulthood. This is an evil organization. Just as NAMBLA is an evil organization that harms children, Exodus is an evil organization that harms gay people. I would no more support Apple publishing a NAMBLA app, or a Ku Klux Klan app than I do them publishing the app from this organization of gay-hating bigots.
If anyone ever tries to make it illegal for the trash from Exodus to stand on a corner and preach their vile filth, I’ll stand right next to you in protesting that attack on free speech. But there is no free speech issue at play in Apple’s App Store, and Apple has a responsibility to consider the social impact and harm that might come from the applications they are asked to publish.
…only the gays told us what to do.
Ms. Martinelli too.
Thanks, guys and girls, it was close one, but together you were able to make sure freedom of expression was kicked to the curb.
Wish gays would do the same thing.
What is bothering you is called “American Conscience.” Being raised to revere freedom of expression, part of you is repulsed by the intolerance and though control practiced by gays.
Gays should have “condemned” the app as mean spirited, hateful, etc. and moved on.
Right, because I don’t think a private corporation should be making available software that could harm innocent gay teens, I don’t have an “American conscience.” I’m all for freedom of speech — but freedom of speech means freedom from government control. No one has a *right* to have apps in the app store.
Should Apple publish a KKK app? A NAMBLA app?
Look… This is America. People here are still free to express themselves. There are two sides to every issue. Exodus Intl is not bashing gays with this app. It’s not an anti-gay app. It’s an app for real people who have decided that they are no longer homosexual, and it gives them real-world support for the decision they’ve made. While many gay people say it’s not a choice, there are many others who say it is. Exodus Intl is not cramming Christianity down anyone’s throats, but they are meeting a real need felt by and desired by so many people. Ironically, people who are against this app and Exodus Intl are cramming their own beliefs down other people’s throats saying that “it’s wrong!”, and they don’t see their own hypocrisy. If anything, people against this app and organization are on their own “religious” crusade, making their own beliefs the “right way” and the Christians are now being criticized for expressing themselves. It wasn’t that long ago when gays could not express themselves while some people in the Church were criticizing and bashing them. The tides have turned, but its still not right.
So in theory if enough “christians” complained about a homosexuality-related app, Apple would pull it too? Sorry, I hate judgmental Christians as much as anybody, but this is a pretty damn slippery slope…
This app says gays live “lesser” lives. It says that gays are not “holy.” It says that gays need to change. It also lies and says that you can change your sexual orientation, when you can’t. A few people can crawl back into the pathetic lie that is the closet, but many more will destroy themselves if they try — that’s why reparative therapy victims kill themselves at extremely high rates.
Apple shouldn’t publish apps that hurt people. They shouldn’t publish apps that will help reinforce the stigmas that drive gay teens to commit suicide at such a tragic rate.
The Exodus scum can still run their brainwashing scam, still mutilate the psyches of poor souls who fall into their claws, and still preach their filth and lies on every street corner in America — as they should be free to do. But no one has a right to publish an App on Apple’s store, and Apple has a responsibility to not let its store become a haven for applications that can harm innocent people.
no matthew you are wrong, who would choose to be something/someone who is treated so badly… it’s not a choice… ask someone gay not your pastor…
lol lol lol.. you don’t decide you’re going to not be homosexual pablo… not possible… that’s the first thing wrong with a program like exodus…. they think they can change your mind, take away your gay somehow.. what a bunch of silly people… and i don’t want to take any of your rights away pablo, i just want to catch up to you on rights, get it….
It comes down to this, for the christians that are against this app being pulled, would you be alright with having an app that attempts to save you from devoting your life, time, and money to something that is not real (i am not saying this either way cause i don’t know) and gives you steps on how to live your life without god, and how to be happy by shutting out god in your life??
if not then this app had to be pulled. they don’t approve apps that are offensive to people, and this was clearly offensive to a large part of the population, gay or not. the person at apple who reviewed this app made a judgement call, on if it should have been approved or not. now depending on their personal beliefs that may be why it was allowed in, or they could have simply not seen the parts that are offensive, I am sure they see way too many apps in a day.
apple has often changed their minds on apps.. they are just a group of ppl making choices, sometimes they get it wrong.
I am mixed on the idea of the censorship, however it prob a decently good thing that there are apps to recruit people (and children) to nazism, the kkk, and a host of other generally regarded as bad organizations that spread hate and unacceptance of people.
Apple is really doing something new here, they are going to keep making mistakes, because they have no one to follow,
What is sad is that you sound more like the Westboro Baptist Church than you do a reasonable human being. Stop being so extreme. Learn to live together, accept differences and move on. No one is forcing anyone to buy the app. If you are a Christian and are struggling with gay thoughts that you dont want – the app is helpful. If that’s not you, why waste your time even thinking about the app? Do you sit around thinking about the “Smuggle Truck” app and how discriminating it is? Do you whine about it and spend time on blogs telling people how hurtful it is to immigrants? I doubt it. You move on, because it doesnt concern you. Same situation here, Ry Ry.
And please stop with the pity party about everyone being against gays. Most people dont care as much as you’re giving them credit for. The bigger problem is gays’ oversensitiveness. Grow a backbone. And spare us the suicide conversation, these “poor souls” have much more going on that just struggling with sexuality.
Really? Cause I don’t see any apps trying to convert people into homosexuals, nor do I find homosexuals who are fighting for equal rights trying to force others into a homosexual lifestyle.
Please, do tell how ‘gays’ have tried to run your life in any meaningful way.
I’ll stop being “extreme” when filth like Exodus stop trying to shame and torture innocent people into denying a fundamental aspect of their humanity.
I’ll stop being “extreme” when anti-gay bigots stop passing laws to deny our relationships equal protection.
I’ll stop being “extreme” when the rate of gay teens who commit suicide falls to the same rate as other teenagers.
I was one of those gay teens who was driven by the self-loathing forced upon us by our religious institutions and the hostility towards gays that is incredibly prevalent in our society to slash a wrist open. I was fortunate enough to survive long enough to come out. Too many kids aren’t that lucky, and these monsters drive them to their deaths.
Don’t lecture me about the issues gay teens face, or the impact these “reparative” hate cults have on their well-being. I know firsthand who the mortal enemies of gay teens are, and they wear crosses, carry Bibles and support groups like “Exodus.”
“torture” – it is your CHOICE
“laws” – no one is denying you having a relationship nor equal protection
“monsters” – again, these kids, yourself included usually have many other things happening in their life that lead to suicide (ie lack of a father figure, pre-sexual orientation low self esteem, social awkwardness, etc)
“hate cults” – if anyone is struggling with hate here, it’s you big guy.
Learn to be the bigger person. A little self restraint and coolheadedness will earn you more respect than a continual pissing and moaning about your entitlements.
It’s not a choice when one’s parents enroll you in one of these groups to “fix” you, as happened to a former boyfriend of mine. His family sent him to an anti-gay camp, where they used aversion therapy — torture, including electric shocks — to try to “fix” his “broken” masculinity. Disgusting.
And as for laws, what f-ing planet are you from? In America, less than 10 states recognize gay marriages. Our own Federal government doesn’t even recognize them, something the President is thankfully trying to fix.
I have been mistreated and abused by anti-gay crusaders such as Exodus my entire life. They continue to push policies through the Republican party that would further discriminate against me and people like me. Your damn right I hate them — I return their hate in full, and take satisfaction in watching society turn their back on their backward, evil beliefs.
Someday, it’ll be more shameful to be a Bible cultist than to be gay. That will be a great day. I hope I live to see it.
matthew thinks gayness is a choice, and he knows choice.
He chooses to hide from facts, truth, kindness, and rational thought.
Is it the 6th or the 7th Amendment that guaranties our right to sell programs on the App store? I never get that right.
ROTF “scientific theories”. How come Christians don’t believe that their “god” is their own theory?
1. Agreed
2. Earth. No one is preventing you from a relationship. I agree that “marriage” is something between man and woman, however my time living in Germany made a lot of things make sense – gay couples had the same political rights as married couples – it just wasnt called a marriage. I wish we could find a middle ground like this in the US.
3. Sorry to hear that. Hate is never the answer though – I’m sure you can attest that it’s gotten you virtually nowhere. I would encourage you to read Jesus’ teaching (love and pray for your enemy) – there is incredible wisdom in that. I’m not suggesting going to church, joining Exodus, etc etc. I’m saying to read the words, listen to the teachings.
4. I doubt it. Love always wins.
Exactly how are gays ruining people’s lives? Hmm?
How ignorant. Amazing.
Christianity is a faith. If you believe in it, then you believe that you are suppose to help your fellow man learn the faith as well. Homosexuality isn’t a faith, therefore you’re right, there is no reason for those individuals to try and “convert” anyone. Christians aren’t trying to run homosexuals lives either. There are definitely “Christian” extremists out there, but they by no means represent us. If you are a true Christian, you are tolerant and only want to help others.
Well neither is that app. Now, I do think Exodus’ website is on the ignorant side, but no one was even going to know about that app unless they were seeking it along with the advice (poor or good) the app has to offer.
Anyway, there probably won’t be any apps (surprising if there will be) to convert people into homosexuality because homosexuality is neither a religion/faith nor a race, and people are silly as to equalize it to a race or religion. However, it is wrong for anybody to have the idea to treat a homosexual less than anybody else.
Good. AppStore is no place for religious hatred. Keep you good, old-fashioned homophobia inside your churches.
Part of the issue here is how some people define “help”. The vast majority of homosexuals are well-adjusted people who lead rich and enjoyable lives, and they do NOT need any “help” from Christians whose goal is to re-orient them according to perceived “Christian” ideals.
I despair for humanity when I read things like this. How depressing. Homosexuality can be observed in many species and is simply a condition of life. You don’t need to take sides with either religion or evolution theory to be able to observe this fact and know that is a natural phenomenon.
Pretty sure Christians should stop preaching their rubbish to other people and play their little games and storytelling on their own.
Apparently Political Correctness > Free Speech out in Apple land
So you’d have no problem with gay people putting up an app that tries to ‘convert’ straight Christians to homosexuality? If you don’t see why it was offensive to gay people, then you’re probably more stupid than the people who run Exodus.
You are just too ignorant for words.
“who would choose to be something/someone who is treated so badly?”
uh Christians…
I’m always baffled by the “if everybody was gay we’d all die out!” argument. And if frogs had wings they wouldn’t bump their butts when they jump, but what does such silly speculation have to do with anything? Homosexuality is a by-definition natural variant of sexuality observed throughout human history and animal species. It predates the religions that condemn it so their opinion of it is really beside the point, now isn’t it? Gays don’t send people door to door for new converts but religion does, so which exactly is the choice here?
And it is Apple which set itself up as the arbiter of what software is and isn’t allowed on their hardware, to the degree that their acceptance of an app can be seen as approval of the organization that sponsors it, their philosophy and methods, so it can hardly be a mystery why apps like this are lobbied against. Exodus is a religion-based attempt to repress natural sexual urges using outdated and disproved methods and it has resulted in enormous damage to individuals and families. The damage that exodus and groups like it do makes it impossible to just dismiss it as a harmless difference of opinion. It’s a misleading, misrepresented, and disproved religious philosophy with a body-count!
thanks Nicole.
these have been great articles.
you knowwwwwwwwwwwww there’s always android:-)
you knowwwwwwwwwwwww there’s always android:-)
you just don’t like gay people my friend.
it could be annnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyything and you would present it as another reason that being gays is bad.
yourefullofHATEisay!
and i rebuke you, in the name of the Snoopy!
It doesn’t matter who has an agenda, whose rights are at risk, etc. What IS at issue here is that Apple has a policy that clearly states that any app that offends a large number of people, for whatever reason, will be removed from the app store environment. Clearly many thousands of app store customers found the Exodus app offensive and made their opinions heard.
Exodus is free to say what they want on the open Web. Apple owns their store environment and can set whatever rules they care to, and to police those rules. Its their sandbox, they can do what they want in it.
not this again.
http://www.lostrepublic.us/Gra…
http://answers.yahoo.com/quest…
oh god!
someone finally said it… oh god!!!
I’ve always been curious…. Why would anyone want to marry someone who “used to be gay”? A relationship where at least one of the members required the threat of eternal hellfire and damnation to MAKE them choose the other person just doesn’t sound like a great basis, ya know? “This my fiance, Bill. He’d much rather be with a guy, but our church pulled major mind-fuck on him so he’s marrying me instead!”
And Exodus and similar groups don’t even really deliver anything. These people don’t “turn straight,” their basically taught to treat their intrinsic sexuality as behavior to be avoided like an addiction. So, because of a few mentions in an ancient book written by people who only had a lifespan about half ours because they had no concept of medicine, hygiene, or waste disposal, you get a lifetime of repressing your sexuality because a bunch of schmucks think those same primitive people had ALL the answers to life, creation, and how the universe came about?! But those same people who are telling you how sinful YOU are? They get to do whatever the hell they want, multiple marriages, cheating, or whatever because hey, at least they’re straight. Yeah. That makes a LOT of sense. And the Earth is a couple thousand years old and Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs. If you’re going to buy the first part despite its illogic, why not go for the whole BS combination platter?
Notice all the “intolerant” bigoted comments by pro-gays? What a bunch of hypocrites. I hope they never get political power or it will be totalitarian thought control. Pro-gay = pro censorship, pro narrowmindedness, pro lack of freedom, pro brainwashing by shrilling whiners.
Even if being gay was a choice or a disease, the way these groups ‘cure’ people borders on cult behavior and is most definitely emotional abuse. Especially of young people who are in a fragile emotional state thanks to stress, hormones etc. Not a loving and Christian way to be. And I too found the app offensive. As a Christian I don’t want that type of person or group soiling the name.
God created everything. Including evolution.
Man created the Bible and it was originally passed on by oral tradition. Along the way six eras could easily have morphed into six days.
If a large group sent petitions against the app, it would be pulled. Just like the anti gay apps, just like a number of the porn apps
It doesn’t hurt Apple’s case that some of Exodus Intl’s writings border on hate speech.
This is an act by a private company, who runs a store and legally has the right to add or remove whatever the want.
Dont like it. Sell your stock, your iPhone etc and don’t support Apple as a consumer.
I know. How dare they refuse to put the Bible in the iBook store. And rejecting all those Catholic prayer aps. And no sermon podcasts an such.
Oh wait. No they didn’t. I can find all that and a lot more ‘Christian’ stuff
What censorship? Who is calling on the government to do anything? Everyone has, and must be ensured of having, a right to speech free of government censorship. However, no one has a right to publish an app on Apple’s Store. And Apple has a responsibility to ensure that apps published to its store don’t harm people.
The only brainwashing being advocated here is by the Exodus filth and their “back in the closet” campaign against gays.
I, for one, am glad that Apple subjected Exodus International to the same rules that they hold everyone else that submits an app to. Christians do not get special privileges to defame the LGBT community. They wanted this App to remain, but the Manhattan Declaration was taking down, just like a Pro-Islamic App that used Qu’ran verses to urge people to incite violence on those that didn’t follow extremist Islamic views was taken down also. Apple doesn’t allow Anti-semitic or Racist apps or apps that defame political figures. Apple is a private company, not the Federal Government, free speech does not apply here. It has very strict rules that were released in September 2010, that everyone, including members of the Christian Special Rights Group, should follow and be held to.
So I’m failing to understand why Christians, particularly Exodus International thinks their app should have been an exception to the rule or that they shouldn’t have had to follow the rules.
The fact is that Exodus Violated 2 categories of the rules, one it was offensive to over 150,000 people on the change.org petition and it was mean spirited and made defamatory claims calling the LGBT community subhuman basically and that they needed to live a full life by accepting Jesus Christ, Joining the Christian Church and going to a Church that will help them live a heterosexual life and be in a heterosexual marriage to be a full person. Not only that, but in the Frequently Asked Questions section. They say that they should be able to fire LGBT people because they’re not comfortable being around them, is that tolerance? Also, despite the fact that the Federal Equal Access Act says that there can be LGBT clubs in schools, Christian Students, parents, school officials and Exodus International thinks that the Schools can have Christian Clubs, but not LGBT clubs because teens shouldn’t be allowed to accept that they’re gay, they can only accept that they’re subhuman and they need to be Heterosexual to be a full human being. So is that tolerance on the Christian side? These are just a few examples where Christians have tried and succeeded in censoring LGBT people. This is mean spirited, defamatory and offensive to a large group of people and Apple doesn’t allow Apps that are mean spirited, defamatory and offensive. This is a rule that everyone should be held to, even Christians.
The 2nd rule or rules that they violated is that the App must work properly in a technical sense. The App was clunky, it took 5-10 seconds to load, there were sections of the App that were blank and it was more or less a front end to their website, therefore it’s not a true App, which is against the rules. Even developers of Apps, thought it should be taken down because it didn’t meet the technical requirements.
If an individual wants to access Exodus’s Message on their iPhone or Ipad they can go the Exodus International site on whatever Browser they have. I checked and the Exodus International Site is fully accessible.
So I’m failing to understand why apps that don’t work get removed and apps that are mean spirited, defamatory and are clearly offensive to large groups of people are removed, but Exodus International’s app shouldn’t have been removed because it’s a Christian App.
I have to agree that the militant way gays are addressing opponents has me a bit concerned. They may discover that tolerance only goes so far. IMO the reason the gay movement has had success to this point is because of the civilized and kind way it has gone about promoting the issue. People have been able to see that these are kind and intelligent people who deserve respect. However; this turn to combativeness is a huge mistake. Gays are an extreme minority and they may just turn the tables on themselves. I was attacked verbally from a gay guy a few months ago when he found out I was LDS. This idea of attacking someone based on their beliefs (me) because of their beliefs (them) isn’t only hypocritical, the outcome won’t be good.
God isn’t real, wake up
IMO, I think you need counseling before you get married. Going into marriage with that much baggage can’t be good for either of you.
IMO, I think you need counseling before you get married. Going into marriage with that much baggage can’t be good for either of you.
If you say so.
Yea, Muslims too.
I guess the questions is, who do you trust to make the decision about what you get to or don’t get to listen to, read or buy. You must be a really trusting person. Personally, I want options and to make decisions for myself. I wouldn’t have purchased this app but if someone wanted to I stand by their right to download it.
Spot on.
Maybe someone will pull the apps, books and music you like because they decide it’s crap.
Wishing the a..holes would go away is nice but who decides you are an a..hole? What if someone here didn’t like your post and decided you were an a..hole and made you go away? Do you see the problem? Everything is relative and even more so people change in their lives. You could be an a..hole today and very nice next week. On the same note you could download this app as an anti-gay person, view it’s contents and decide the Exodus app and concept is BS. This app could have helped you discover that about yourself. Instead, some a..holes decided it for you and you didn’t learn anything for yourself. Don’t be a sheeple.
keep telling yourself that.
Grindr – Gay, bi, & curious guy finder of same sex: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app…
This app offends me because it’s trying to pull in people on the fence who are bi-curious. Anyone up for a petition?
I’m not serious about wanting to sensor this but see what a slippery slope this is? I’m pretty sure I could get a butt load (excuse the pun) of signatures for this. However; I’m not going to follow the militant gay example of trying to sensor things for other people. I don’t like the Exodus app, it’s sick to me. However; the way it was pulled and censored makes me more sick.
I don’t believe attacking faith or belief is a productive means of achieving gay rights either. However, the Mormon church is HEAVILY involved in anti-gay rights political initiatives, in some cases directly funding them and asking its members to donate both time and money to anti-gay political causes. If you tithe (which you have to if you’re LDS) you DO contribute to that, even if you’re not one of the people who manned a phone bank or contributed directly to a political initiative.
What you want is a get-out-of-criticism-free card because it involves your religion, as if that’s automatically off-limits. It isn’t, and your religion doesn’t cut anyone any slack when it comes to imposing its religious will on civil law, so why would you be exempt from criticism as a participant in that? There’s no magic circle that exempts a religion or faith from responsibility for its actions.
I can take the criticism and I’m proud of my church’s involvement in Prop 8. However; it wasn’t an anti-gay-rights move by the LDS church. Their opposition was in fear of having the government pressure doctrine changes and force churches to perform the ceremonies that they may not want to. If a new proposal was made to ensure that churches could continue to teach that being gay is wrong if they want to, without it being called hate speech and also not being forced to perform ceremonies in order to receive exemptions and public funding there wouldn’t be a problem.
You brought up tithing. I end up paying a lot more than 10 percent, we donate heavily to every disaster you can imagine. We often work with the Roman Catholic church and even provide them distribution and vice versa. I pay to assist local needy in my area through fast offerings, and once every few months I clean my chapel. We have no paid clergy. So, no bishops driving Porches… well, not that were paid for by the church anyway. To the point, the LDS church is the second richest in the world and the largest land owner in the US, second to uncle Sam. We can tie up gays in court indefinitely if we need to in order to practice our religion. However; the small local Methodist church down the street and thousands of others like it can’t afford to combat heavy litigation. Once they are sued for teaching homosexuality is wrong they may have to stop teaching it and therefore change their doctrine. This was an outreach to help defend the smaller churches in US communities from litigation for simply practicing their beliefs the same way they have since their founding. Evangelists may not consider us “Christians”, at least not the same as them, but we had their back when it counted. We believe that all churches teach truths to varying degrees and will support them all that we can. For fear of sounding arrogant, we we rather have them learning some truths than no truths. I know this isn’t politically correct but we fear God more than man. It’s really that simple.
Sounds like you need to wake up.
I need to wake up? There are many refutals of God, especially the Judeo-Christian God, and Christianity has so many flaws and is so self-contradictiory that I can’t believe how a third of all the people can subscribe to this fairytale religion.
Just proved my point. Have a nice sleep.
Take omnipotence paradox, problem of evil or problem of hell. Jesus in the Bible says that you should pluck your eye out if it causes you to sin, he also says that you shouldn’t work to feed yourself, you should hate everyone and even your own life, you should not plan for the future,and so forth. I found a great video explaining just that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…
So it is okay to bash Christians and say awful things about them. Have any of you worked with the Exodus ministry? Do you really know what you are talking about? Or are you preying on Christians with the same sterotypes as you claim Christian prey on people. The real issue is that Apple is deciding to stop a group from speaking becasue an activist group put pressure on them. Can’t we alll think for our selves??? The unhappy people that seeks Exodus’ help may disagree with you. Instead of putting a gag around fellow citizens mouths, how about we allow people to think instead of jumpin to conclusions??
Christianity is just a soft target, pure and simple.
You can’t prove it, it’s not real!
Since God doesn’t exist anyways, Apple should ban all religious apps, then governments should pull my tax dollars form them too.
World Peace!
Who is to say that the 160,000+ people who petitioned for the app’s removal weren’t “thinking for themselves”, hmm? I think it could easily be argued that they were the ones who WERE thinking for themselves. Exodus has not been silenced: they still have a presence on the Web. Apple, however, runs a store, on their own servers, and certain policies apply to anyone who wishes to develop an app for the iOS platform. The Exodus app clearly violated Apple’s rules. That’s all there is to it. Feel free to share the Exodus Web site data with anyone you feel is in need of the information it has to offer. Nobody is going to stop you. Just don’t think you can peddle it in a company owned, curated environment and not offend a huge number of people.
If you’re “proud” of the Mormon church’s involvement in Prop8 why are you complaining about some gay guy “attacking” you? Is it a burden to defend actions of which you’re proud? FWIW, there is compelling evidence the LDS laundered church money through members in order to contribute to these political initiatives directly, which is illegal. Would you be proud of that as well? If it were proved I also think the church should be taxed because it has crossed a church/state line.
And your claim that the church was only involved because there isn’t wording that explicitly states nobody will be forced to perform those marriages or be unable to preach against homosexuality is bullshit. If that were true the Mormon church wouldn’t have been involved in opposing rights in cases where there WAS wording to that effect, but they were. It’s about imposing religious values on civil law. I’d imagine that Mormons in the 1960s were also “proud” of their church’s attitude toward black people but that doesn’t make it right. I believe that faith and religion CAN be a positive force in the lives of the individuals and communities but that doesn’t excuse their every action.
What it comes down to is that study after study has shown that homosexuality is an inherent, inborn trait that manifests itself not just in behavior but in subtle physiological differences like brain structure. Unlike Mormons, gays don’t need to proseltytize or send missionaries out to convince people to CHOOSE it; they’re born every day and have existed throughout history in EVERY known civilization. So what does it matter what any religion, particularly one started by a convicted 19th century con-man, has to say about it of any consequence at all? You might as well have fervent religious beliefs about left-handed people because that’s the closest analogous human trait to homosexuality. (In fact there is a higher percentage of left-handed gays than the general population.)
You sound really emotional so I’m not sure if it’s worth while to bother to respond to you anymore. However; you have thrown a lot of accusations that you don’t seem to understand about my church. My church history isn’t really relevant to this topic. So, they they call this argument technique “a red herring”, it’s a type of logical fallacy. Attacking my church is one way to distract from the issue. This militant gay stance is going to really burn you guys because although people are tolerant, it’s only to the point that you don’t modify our lives in the process. I have simply said that if the legislation was modified to allow churches to continue to practice their beliefs, unmolested and with no repercussions if they don’t chose to perform gay ceremonies there wouldn’t be a problem. To you that is just “bullshit”. Once again, you don’t address the issue then you change to another issue about our church and black people. Well, here is the thing. Unless the legislation is specific to protect church rights we won’t vote to allow gay marriage. There are quite a few more of us than there are of you and votes aren’t tallied with a higher weight on political correctness.
Also, I don’t buy into your premise that people are born gay. From an evolutionary standpoint it makes no sense as such people don’t produce offspring. Do you think in 1400 a lesbian couple was able to go to the doctor and get artificially inseminated? Even if one did, it would be from a man that in all statistical likelihood was straight. I mean, do you know how evolution works? If you can’t breed, or don’t breed as well as others your species dies.
I believe being a homosexual is wrong. Do I hate gays? No, any Christian knows that hate isn’t of god. We also know as we judge, we shall be judged. So, I’m not really quick on the trigger to judge anybody. I hope and pray that individual gays find happiness and forgiveness.
Finally, as far as being attacked for being Mormon. It happens to me all the time. I was just fired from a job because my boss found out I was LDS and wouldn’t convert to his Baptist church. Do I cry about it? Not really. I simply found a new job, their loss.
He’s right, it could happen to you, if you decide to demonize a large percentage of Apple’s customers with a bunch of hateful bigotry.
Ah. You don’t believe that people are born gay. Are you a scientist? An evolutionary biologist perhaps? I doubt it. It’s more like that you’re a religious ideologue. You don’t believe it because it’s inconvenient to your religiously dictated world-view, not because there is no science to support it. Your religious book about invisible deities and mysteriously disappearing golden tablets says one thing but science, logic, reason and reality say another. Hard choice you’ve got there. Really.
Being gay can’t be genetic because gays don’t have kids. Brilliant! Nobody has EVER thought of that before! Oh, except they have and there are compelling scientific theories, from increased fertility in maternal lines to co-operative “it takes a village” family support systems, which suggest why an entire FAMILY, not just the gay individual, benefits and therefore the gene is propogated. But even if DNA doesn’t play a part that still doesn’t rule out sexuality being inborn. Hormonal variations most obviously, which is born out by quantifiable physical differences between gay and straight men or gay and straight women which have AGAIN, been reported in study after study. Brain structures, finger lengths, patterns of hair growth, cognitive differences. But you don’t believe any of that be cause your magic book doesn’t agree? So what?
The history of your religion doesn’t matter? Well isn’t that convenient! An adherent of the 19th Century version of Scientology has declared that the source and history his religion’s bias against assorted groups is irrelevant! Well I’m so glad it’s been settled. Oh, and I really like the not-so-subtle “there are more of us than you so better watch it” threat. Hmmm. I wonder if a clever media campaign and calling banks could convince the populations of certain states to turn against Mormons? Would that make it RIGHT? Would you be saying “the people have spoken!” then? Great. The last-ditch fall-back for you is Mob Rule. And there are more Muslims than Mormons so by your “logic” they’re superior, right? Well no matter how many people line up to reaffirm that “a fool and his money are soon parted,” eventually reality wins out. And as proved by their rejection of polygamy to gain statehood or disavowing previous racist policies in the face of public opinion, even the Mormon church isn’t immune to it.
So enjoy your prideful little happy dance while it lasts.
Real cute video you have there. Not sure what bible they used in that video, sir. Seems like they take all of the scriptures out of context.
I am no where near religious at all, but people like you who walk on this earth and think that no God made any of it is beyond me. So you choose to believe in evolution.
Because, you know, that makes more sense.
Oh look, there’s a fish walking on the land right now! And did you see that Ape evolve in to a human?
You didn’t. I didn’t. No one did.
You can say the same about Christianity.
But you would be the first one to defend Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, etc.
You got butthurt over a few idiots in Topeka, KS who called themselves “Christians” and protest.
Trust me, they are far from true Christians. Think of those people as the Christian version of Al-Quaeda.
I’m done. I’m not trying to convince you to do anything, or believe in anything, cause I know you refuse to open your mind and respect other people’s beliefs.
Have a good day sir.
It is unfair to Christians to say that these people are Christian, just as it is unfair to Muslims to say that terrorists are Muslim. They are not. They are radicals who use the guise of someone else’s religion to further some agenda of their own.
homosexuals have had equal rights for almost a hundred years in this country. since that’s not enough, the activist gays try instead to go against the will of the people and redefine the word marriage for everyone, so its by definition comparable to much more than this silly little app.