An app from a Christian Ministry is “designed to be a useful resource for men, women, parents, students, and ministry leaders” over what it calls “homosexual strugglers.”
The free app comes from Exodus International, a group that says it has “over 35 years of ministry experience…committed to encouraging, educating and equipping the Body of Christ to address the issue of homosexuality with grace and truth.”
The Exodus app, which has been approved in the “lifestyle” category of iTunes since February 15, is the subject of a change.org petition to have it removed from iTunes.
So far over 6,500 people have signed it. The statement for the poll explains why:
“This new iPhone app is the latest move in Exodus’ dangerous new strategy of targeting youth. In light of the recent wave of LGBT youth suicides, this tactic is particularly galling as it creates, legitimizes, and fuels the ostracism of LGBT youth by their families.”
Many of the customer reviews on iTunes are upset that Apple has approved it.
“As a straight man i find this app offensive and totally inappropriate, we have young gay people around the world killing themselves as a direct result of religious beliefs and apple allows this, I am disgusted with Apple and will think twice before I purchase any more Apple products until this is removed from the site,” said Keith Hopster.
Last November, Apple pulled an app called the Manhattan Declaration from the iTunes store after outcry and over 7,000 signatures on an online poll that the content was an anti-gay and hate-mongering. The group behind the app asked to have it re-instated to no avail.
We’ve been down this road before: Apple has approved and occasionally pulled apps about dictators, Hooters and the Manhattan Declaration.
Should the Exodus app stay in iTunes?
Nicole Martinelli is a San Francisco freelance writer who heads up Cult of Mac Magazine, our weekly publication available on iTunes. You can find her on Twitter and Google+. If you’re doing something new, cool and Apple-related, email her.
351 responses to “Firestorm brewing over Christian app for “homosexual strugglers””
Disgusting. When are people going to learn that religion has no place in a civilised society?
I believe that religions cause problems and very well may have been responsible for the recent suicides. However, it doesn’t appear that this app is hate mongering or ‘fueling the ostracism’ of LGBT kids by their family.
“encouraging, educating and equipping the Body of Christ to address the issue of homosexuality with grace and truth”
If the app’s description is accurate, then I think we’re putting a blanket statement that God=’homosexual hate’ when that is only a small but vocal percentage of Christians’ beliefs today.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. I certainly believe that any Apple approved app that promotes hate against any group of people should be removed.
I don’t own the app but I will download it to check it out. It may be offensive or inappropriate. But I can’t judge the app just based on its premise. I’d be checking more to see how it represents God’s love and how it helps “those who struggle with same sex attraction.” We are a country of extremes and we seem to get afraid whenever anyone challenges the boxes in which we have placed ourselves. I’m a Christian. I’m straight, married, father. But I have homosexual friends of all shapes, sizes, colors and dispositions who I love dearly. And they KNOW I love them. SOME of them are Christians that do indeed “struggle” with their same sex attractions. Some have been molested as children. Some have neglect or abuse issues from early in their childhood development. They desire opposite sex relations. They believe that God made them for opposite sex relations. Society (including the church) has been a place of pain for many of them. But there are others that have NOT committed suicide BECAUSE OF the church, support of loved ones, and their faith.
Whatever your faith, if you have a supreme deity, you probably think that deity is omnipotent and omniscient. Nobody serves a powerless God… what use would he/she be? If… just that subset of homosexuals… 1) believe that their God loves them regardless or orientation 2) believe that in that God’s plan for humanity, He designed man to be with women (even though point #2 is not predicated on point #1) and 3) have been searching for a way to line up with point #2 but are only told it’s impossible and that they are denying who they really are. Why would you deny them to opportunity to explore the possibilities in a loving environment for which they’ve already shown an affinity? If you would deny them that, who is the one really being close-minded and unloving? Whether you think it is possible is irrelevant.
I have other homosexual friends that have different convictions. They know who they are and have no desire to change. I love them the same. And some of them are Christian. And whether they’re lifestyle lines up point for point with what’s in the Bible (which none of ours do) is a separate issue from them believing Christ died for them and wants them to believe in Him and inherit eternal life. All disagreement does not equal hatred. Why do we always paint with such a broad brush?
I firmly agree with you. If this app was promoting hate and/or violent demonstrations against homosexual community I would pull it down. If, however, if it attempts to educate Christians to act more in line with the teaching of Jesus (as this does), I’m all for it. There is such a wealth of negative material treating homosexuals immaturely and poorly, that I would applaud a more balanced and kinder viewpoint.
Attitudes like that of this hate cult — that if you love God enough and pray hard enough, you can wish away the gay — nearly drove me to suicide when I was 22 years old. If there’s a hell, there’s a special foyer for these people.
When are people going to learn that theres no such thing as society without religion. Everyone believes something and interact accordingly. Most just believe in themselves. Faith is faith regardless of how ill-founded.
Signed.
I definitely disagree with the message, but this app should not be pulled from the App Store. Freedom of Speech is very important, even if it means that oppossitional viewpoints will be heard.
As an ardent Apple user, stockholder and general feel-good-about-the-company person, I want this application gone!
There’s no room for the divisiveness that invaiably comes in to the picture when religion and/or theology enters it.
How about because Apple should allow equal opportunity for two sides of an argument to have civil discourse. Why is the concept of freedom so difficult for some to understand?
If Apple is going to have apps helping gays find other gays interested in meeting up, and map apps for finding the local condom distributor, how about allowing Christians to offer apps to their patrons? Nobody is forcing Exodus Intl or Manhattan Declaration opposers to download the app, so it’s not a fairness issue.
The idea that teens are killing themselves a direct result of religious belief is appallingly offensive, ignorant, and discrimination based on lack of evidence (aka, bigotry).
How is faith inherently unfounded? I have faith that when I go home, my apartment will still be there. Could it be different? Of course. Does that make it ill-founded? No. Think…
So you’re in favor of religious discrimination? Interesting.
Um, how is praying for homosexuals and helping those who want to live different indicative of being in a “hate cult.” The hate sounds like it’s coming from your direction, not Exodus Intl.
Amen!
If you don’t like the app, don’t download it. LET FREEDOM RING!!!!
The thing I most despise about the left is their hypocrisy. This is particularly evident in the LGBT movement in America. They can promote homosexuality in High Schools through their LGBT “It Gets Better” campaign and have created a support queue for those who are confused about their sexuality (any bets as to which why their advice and guidance is leaning?). But when others oppose their choice, or offer similar counsel from the other side of the issue they scream “hate monger,” “prejudice,” “intolerant,” “close-minded.”
I don’t necessarily support the app – I believe that a persons sexual preferences should be a private and personal matter and not one for a parade or demonstration – but there is nothing wrong with an app that opposes your views. As long as it doesn’t promote hatred or violence toward others, then leave it be.
And for those who are bound to exercise their right to show how ignorant they are – yes I am religious and yes I am a conservative; but that is my choice. If you want to be respected for your choices you need to start by respecting others.
Last time I checked, this app is not mandatory. There are plenty of apps that I disagree with due to their political views, religion or morality; however, I am not going to petition or scream about them as we are ultimately responsible and we have choices. Do you really want government or big companies to controling our lives? Quit complaining! If you don’t like Apple, then sell your apple products, sell the stock, etc. You have that choice, but stop spoiling it for the rest of us.
As far as you anit-Christian or non believers out there…get over yourself! Stop tearing down Christianity because it makes you feel better because you don’t believe. United States was founded on the Christian principles, the majority of the citizens are Christians.
Exodus International is a pseudo-scientific farce designed to prey on the pocketbooks of religious people who know very little about homosexuality and who desperately want to believe that it is something that can be “fixed.” Exodus has produced no evidence to date that their methods are successful. They have submitted no research to peer reviewed journals and have little more than wishful thinking, anecdotes, and ingrained prejudice to support their theories. No reputable medical or psychological organization takes them seriously. The AMA, APA and dozens of other organizations have publically made statements against them. Several prominent leaders of Exodus have “relapsed” (i.e. been busted by photographers in gay bars) over the years.
http://www.religioustolerance….
http://www.psych.org/Departmen…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E…
I guess people are free to believe any crazy thing they want. There are a few people who insist the world is still flat out there. And they are free to go hand out their pamphlets on street corners or put up websites documenting their conspiracy theories. But they have no constitutional right to hawk their notions in Apple’s store. Given that Apple has a commitment to diversity in their own company they should reject this app.
Your arrogance, cloaked with the mantle of faux-compassion is astonishing.
Which is exactly what it is doing.
i’m an “homosexual struggler” and I don’t realy see why apple should poll this app …
Theirs plenty of prohomosexual stuff on the web already, and it’s not ass if “we are loosing the battle”
What about the “homosexual struggler” who want to change ? It’s not my place to tell him that they his wrong.
It looks like Bill has a vested interest in this app and lots of free time to defend it. Lack of evidence, eh?
It is interesting that those who promote tolerance seem to be the least tolerant when they disagree with someone else’s beliefs. This app has every right to stay just as any pro LGBT should stay.
Those, like Gazoobee, who think “religion has no place in civilized society” should remember the uncivilized secularism of the Soviet Union. You don’t need to look back that far. Just look at the the xenophobic, anti-Semitic nations of Europe.
There was an excellent episode of south park that addressed an issue like this. You know the one, when Butters was bi-curious.
They make everything better.
To my dear friend Ryan, many guys like myself have been able to address the issue of same-sex attractions and tap into their true inner masculinity (which yields opposite sex attractions). I am living proof that change is possible. After living the gay lifestyle for over a decade, I started to research what was the real cause. I discovered sexuality is primarily psychological, and the APA classified homosexuality in the same category as eating disorders for the longest time. I went to the best psychotherapist on this issue, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, and attended some men’s weekend retreats which allowed me to experience healthy male bonding. Once SSA guys understand that they don’t need another man to complete them, and they don’t lack anything that any other guy has, and they lose their attraction to what they see in other guys by realizing they are MEN AMONG MEN, SSA begins to crash and burn and one’s true masculinity begins to emerge.
By far the best websites on this issue are:
peoplecanchange.com
josephnicolosi.com
genderwholeness.com
narth.com
BTW, you can’t pray the gay away. I tried that for years and it didn’t work. Only once one realizes that homosexual attractions are psychological, they can learn what’s really going on internally and subconsciously to repair that aspect of their masculinity.
“They can promote homosexuality in High Schools through their LGBT “It Gets Better” campaign and have created a support queue for those who are confused about their sexuality (any bets as to which why their advice and guidance is leaning?).”
All that is being said is that Homosexuality is not wrong. All that is being offered advice-wise is for people to be happy with Who They Are. “It Gets Better” is a campaign saying that IF you are LGBT then whatever prejudice you suffer (from people like you) gets less and is easier to handle. The sooner the moronic right realise you have no more choice to be gay than you have to be left-handed or have green eyes the better the world would be. Why is it so hard to understand? Because some Arabs 2000 years ago said it was bad? They never said you could use mobile phones or aeroplanes either but that doesn’t stop anyone.
It’s not a question of Opinion, or “having another side to the issue” as it is Basic Fact. You are either gay or not. To not treat everyone equally is wrong.
I find the right-wing comments here more disturbing than the app, and that’s saying something.
The idea that homosexuality is a choice that you can choose to change as and when you want, debases the memories of those executed for gay-rights activism around the world.
Like it or not society only moves forward, not backward. And increasingly in our culture, tired old views about gay people are viewed as unacceptable just as tired old views about women and people of another race are viewed as unacceptable. Freedom of speech in the public square does not protect you from societal consequences. But the app store is not the public square. Apple can (and will) do whatever is in the best interest of the majority of their customers.
@Michaelallday76
You reveal your bias (or prejudice) by listing childhood abuse as a reason for homosexuality. The anecdotes about your friends are not credible as evidence for this. I wonder if you would have to investigate the app if it was designed to help women who are struggling being submissive to their husband, or an app designed to help Jews overcome their struggle denying the Messiah.
Although you seem to be trying to classify some Christians (including yourself) as being “better” than the rest of those hate-mongering Christians, from an outsider’s perspective, you’re easily grouped into the same camp. I know it’s a Christian premise that faith is more important than deeds, but to the rational world it is your actions and words that dictate how you are perceived and judged. Thought crime is not as aspect of any non-Biblical legal code.
If you think that only God can judge you, then there’s no need to reply or rebut. There’s also no need for you to judge the app to insure it’s properly Christian. However, if you’ve found my words upsetting or challenging, perhaps you have a deep unease trying to rectify your Christian beliefs with a rational, nonjudgemental, human-centric world view. In that case, please consider purchasing my app designed to lead “those struggling with childhood indoctrination and delusional belief systems” into a sane, rational, religion-free world.
I’m very sorry that you had such a tough experience when you were 22. Many have been hurt by Christians that misunderstand their own faith, and tend to look for specks in others’ eyes while ignoring the log in their own.
That being said, I do not think this organization is necessarily a “hate cult”. One of the interesting aspects of the gay community I’ve noticed, is that there is often a message that one’s sexual preference needs to be one’s primary identity, and therefore needs to be lived as a primary lifestyle. And then if anything or anyone threatens that message, there is defensiveness with name-calling tactics. I don’t think this is fair to some people who are both confused about their sexual preferences, but also are confused about what the Bible says on its own terms. I know men who have been significantly helped by this organization. They did not experience it as hateful. Their message is not to “wish away the gay”. In many ways their message is that we don’t have to be controlled by our natural inclinations, in any area of life.
People are born homosexual and they can’t change. You may be able to hide it, but you can never change. Be happy of who you are and just remember you are amazing just they way you are. (Yes, bad reference to a song, but it helps my point.)
Hundreds of thousands of people in Japan had ‘faith’ that their apartments would still be there too. Apparently, that was not the case and a ‘Act of God’ was the reason.
In the words of Homer Simpson, “Faith is what you have in something that doesn’t exist.”
I am living proof that what Exodus stands for helped lead me to other resources that have now completely diminished my same sex attractions. Yes, I lived the gay lifestyle for over 10 years and have changed.
I wasn’t “fixed.” Same sex attractions are NOT a “choice.” But they ARE psychological, and can be dealt with.
If Apple allows pro-homosexual apps that some people use to have hook up like GRINDR and JACK’D, why can’t Apple offer apps to help homosexuals? LET FREEDOM RING!
NARTH.COM
Until 1973, homosexuality was classified as a psychological disorder. What happened in 1973 that caused this to change? Do your research and you’ll find LGBT groups threatened and pressure the APA, AMA, etc to remove it from the list. The decision wasn’t based on science or medicine, but POLITICS.
I am living proof that what Exodus stands for helped lead me to other resources that have now completely diminished my same sex attractions. Yes, I lived the gay lifestyle for over 10 years and have changed.
I wasn’t “fixed.” Same sex attractions are NOT a “choice.” But they ARE psychological, and can be dealt with.
If Apple allows pro-homosexual apps that some people use to have hook up like GRINDR and JACK’D, why can’t Apple offer apps to help homosexuals? LET FREEDOM RING!
NARTH.COM
Until 1973, homosexuality was classified as a psychological disorder. What happened in 1973 that caused this to change? Do your research and you’ll find LGBT groups threatened and pressure the APA, AMA, etc to remove it from the list. The decision wasn’t based on science or medicine, but POLITICS.
Chris, with all due respect you’re misinformed. People are NOT born homosexual because there is no evidence of this. Homosexuality is not genetic or biological (they’re been searching for a “gay gene” for decades and haven’t found anything). I am living proof that change is possible. I am also living proof that it’s psychological. I encourage you to research the other side of this issue and decide for yourself. I’ve found NARTH.com to be a great resource.
It should be removed as soon as is possible.
Dating apps are ok. 2 grown man can have a date if they want to.
An app full of hateful comments, set against a group of people and wanting to show them as evil and with no right of existence – that’s not ok. You can attack your fellow zealots in the church, but you can’t attack those who don’t belong to you little rosary.
Apple will remove this app, it’s a matter of days.
You sir, are an idiot. If you wanted yourself brainwashed – have it your way. But keep it for yourself. And enjoy you “true masculinity” lol.
Kind regards,
not brainwashed by church reader.
Thanks for sharing Kozak. You, and the many like yourself, are proof, indeed, that homosexuality is a anything but a “hardwired” condition. I wish people would treat you with the same respect and tolerance they demand of everyone else.
I was born homosexual. Just because you have forced yourself back into the closet just means that we should be sad for you, not throw ourselves back into that living hell. There are many signs that being gay has a genetic component. Twins who are gay are dramatically more likely for their twin brother/sister to also be gay than a non twin brother/sister. Gay males have common morphological traits that are not common amongst straight males (the length of the index and ring fingers on the right hand being the most famous one). Homosexuality is also identifiable in many, many higher forms of life, including most mammals, all primates (including, obviously, humans) and birds.
::sigh:: What Apple really needs is more transparency and consistency in their App Approval / Rejection process. Why does that seem such a difficult thing for them to supply?
Any group that encourages gays to stay in the closet or go back into the closet is a hate cult. Any group that sends a message to gay teens that being gay is not natural, that it is wrong, that is something they should change, is a hate cult. Frankly, any group that takes the contradictory, oft-redacted myths of a bronze age nomadic tribe as being an infallible guide to modern life is going to find it very difficult not to take dangerous, despicable positions against gays, against women and against science.
Being gay is not a “lifestyle.” Gays do not all share the same values, lifestyle or interests anymore than straights do. Being gay is not chosen, unlike becoming part of an anti-gay, anti-science cult.
It is always interesting to see the huge comments on stories regarding God, guns and gays. Oraganized religion’s obsession with people’s sex lives borders upon the absurd. Certainly there are other matters of importance that have huge negative effects upon pepole’s lives other than who they have sex with. How about unemployment in this country, the breakdown of the traditional family due to no fault divorce laws, etc., etc.
Why do the religious obsess about gays? Live and let live. There are so many more important issues to deal with these days.
As for the actual app, I have not seen it and have no interest in seeing it. Apple’s app store is not a governmental entity, therefore the First Amendment’s guarantees of free speech are completely irrelevant.
I’m sorry that your life has been so devoid of contact with genuine people that you have to result to disparaging me instead of addressing my points. Could there somewhere be someone who could actually express what I stated above without it being faux-compassion? Would you ever believe it? If so, why could that person not be me? You don’t even know me yet you have labeled me false.
I have done my research. “Reparative Therapy” is a farce that sucks people in who fear losing every one and everything around them. I have several friends who turned to these flawed programs. They said they were happy but you could see the desperation in their smiles. And eventually they all came to the same realization: you won;t find happiness and love until finally accept yourself and live without fear and without apology to others. All the fancy mumbo jumbo about “letting go and letting God” and psychobabble about one’s “inner masculinity” can’t cover that fact up.
You can not pray the gay away. Empty platitudes, hugs from other men and scripture these programs teach you will only satisfy you for so long. People like Ted Haggard know this. Numerous “ex-gay” poster boys who have been busted in gay bars know this. Every vocally anti-gay Republican representative closet case that gets busted in an airport bathroom cruising for sex or returning from Europe with a rentboy “companion” to carry his luggage knows this. The more you suppress the gay the harder it tries to get out.
I’ve checked this app out, and there isn’t anything hateful or offensive about it. Personally, I’m in favor of free speech when it isn’t destructive or harmful, which from I can tell, this app isn’t. As long as this app remains respectful and hate free, I don’t believe it should be pulled. Freedom of opinion should be allowed here, on both sides.
Thank you for calling all gay people crazy. You’re the one who had yourself brainwashed because you couldn’t deal with the fact that you like boys.
There’s nothing wrong with my masculinity. Saying things like that about gay people is why gay teens kill themselves.
These anti-gay hate cults have hands drenched in the blood of innocent gay teens. Nothing but a bunch of murdering monsters.
why is everybody complaining about this? if you dont like the app or what it’s about, then dont download it. simple as that.
More cultish blather —
Your goal in life is to attend to your wife and children.
Stay away from other men’s genitals.
God, who created the universe knows exactly what He is doing; it’s blasphemous to question His most minimal decision.
i sir, am anti gay. but i don’t hate them! i have friends who are gay and from time to time we try to sway each other into believing that the other is wrong. you saying that i am a “murdering monster” just because i disagree with being gay is like saying that my dog is responsible for the death of anyone she doesn’t like.
Actually, In the words of Paul the Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1).
He never said “inherently unfounded” but that some religous beliefs and faiths can be ill-founded.
Read and Comprehend…
I remember when a silly little girl in Fulton, MS proclaimed “freedom of speech” because she wanted to go to the school prom wearing a tuxedo. This has been the case in many instances when so called homosexual people [those that say are and are not] draw attention for media exposure, and they usually fulfill their agenda. However, I do not see the ACLU fighting for “freedom of speech” on this App. I am not saying that I am endorsing this App because I have not used it, but last time I checked, the United States is still marketed as a “free” country. This means that people should be tolerant [not necessarily quite] about situation like this. This is hypocrisy in both anti-homosexual and homosexual communities.
And those that say homosexuality is biological or psychological, any decent psychologist should be able to tell you that one may influence his biology through psychological means. Biology may also influence one’s psychology.
So what the homosexual community needs to do is to just leave the anti-homosexual media alone. And the “church” needs to leave just leave the pro-homosexual media alone. I write this thing concerning the subject of censorship.
I hear the “church” bashing to much homosexuality. A major argument is Romans chapter 1. However, this chapter says “all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness: full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity: whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boaster, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful..”
I have encountered several unmerciful, implacable covenant breaking “church” attenders in my life time. These type of people are in the same boat (if not worse off) than secular homosexuals. The chapters (Romans 1, I Cor 6) that argue against homosexuality argues against other things just as well. Why are “churches” making an issue out of the homosexuality when there are a whole slew of things in addition that are being ignored?
A better question is, why are so called Christians judging secular issues such as this? Did not Paul write in I Cor. 5 that God judges those that are without? Paul said in that chapter to judge those that are within [the church] and to put away from among yourselves that wicked person. Last time a I checked, these people are not within. These are people living their lives out the way they want and there is no use of evil retaliation as many do because evil doers will be cut off (Ps 37). So leave their things media, and EXPECT for them to leave your media alone.
Censorship of opinions in Apps, newspapers, television etc. negates the “Golden Rule” and “Live and let live” philosophies.
Apple is not in business to provide every special interest group with soapbox for their cause. The App Store is not a free speech zone anymore than a bookstore or a grocery store or a restaurant. Apple is in business to make money and if this app becomes a contentious subject (and it looks like it has), that effects Apple’s bottom line.
I can’t say I care about self-loathers who want to crawl deeper into the closet. I care about gay teens coming to terms with who they are. They are bombarded daily, in their churches, in their schools, from their friends, with messages that say that being gay is wrong. This bombardment leads to a suicide rate amongst gay teens that is several times higher than that amongst straight teens. This app furthers that problem.
I’m not gay, but you are a bigot.
Take your hate and go away.
This is not freedom of speech. It’s hate.
It’s also bad for business.
Remove the app.
You can no more disagree with someone being gay than you can disagree with someone being left-handed. People do not choose to be gay. People do choose to be religious bigots who try to force others to deny fundamental aspects of their humanity.
Bullshit.
What a hypocrite.
So you “respect the choices” of others by making sure the “movement” doesn’t “promote homosexuality”.
You’re some “Conservative”.
Tell you what. I’ll support and even sign the online petition to have the Exodus app removed BUT ONLY WHEN ALL the anti Christian apps such as bible thumper are also removed.
The only thing I have to say to you is I love you brother. May god be with you and may He bless your family.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know was homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak seem to me to be the latter.
Damn right. Why cant people live for the moment not for the gifts bestowed upon them in ‘heaven’ . People should be good be because it is natural not because it is written in scripture. Religion has an extremely negative effect on modern society which is more likely to continue if it trys to push it’s negative propaganda towards the younger generation through modern technology.
Dude … the rational argument that religion generally hurts society more than it helps, is not the same thing as “hate.” Maybe if you studied more science and logic and relied less on mystery stories about magical beings, you might be able to tell the difference between the two.
Religion is not equal to “nice,” and we can all love each other and get along just fine without the intervention of fantasy. I’m far more moral and do far more good in the world as an atheist than any religious people I know.
Also, your just being a bigot yourself for thinking that if I don’t have Jesus, then I must be a “hater.”
Basically, if any sort of app was anti-Christian, the Christians would DEMAND it can taken down IMMEDIATELY!
But if it is Anti-whatever that Christians dont like? Ah, keep it. Freedom of speech!
Hypocritical
Like Rachel Maddow sez … “You are entitled to believe whatever you want, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.”
The facts are that people are born homosexual or not. It’s always been that way and homosexuality is a normal and natural part of all animal societies.
It’s always roughly the same percentage, it occurs in all mammalian species, the only difference being that there is a slightly higher percentage of monkeys, dogs, whatever that are “gay” than there are people on average.
Most likely the difference is just people like yourself who are gay but deny it.
Freedom doesn’t trump human rights. This is a human rights issue. It’s the same thing as if an organisation published a book that with all the best intentions and so forth was “anti-jew” or pushed white supremacy. Your allowed to do even that, but you never had the “freedom” to force someone else to publish it.
All of you hating on this Christian app are showing your ignorance, hate, and intolerance for other people’s beliefs.
If you go to Exodus International’s website you will find nothing but love and compassion for homosexuals and sensitivity to people who struggle with homosexuality and a sensitivity towards the homosexual suicide rate.
Your hateful and intolerant speech is the venom that destroys any chance of a dialogue between Christians who believe homosexuality is wrong and the homosexual community.
Shame on you.
When are people going to learn that there is no such thing as society without automobiles. After all, coffee is coffee regardless of how tasty.
(my entry into the tautological nonsense-statement contest)
The bible also says if your daughter is raped by a man he then owes you 50 Silver pieces AND your daughter must marry him and never divorce. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Live and let live. Believe in whatever you choose to believe in – just keep it to yourself. I signed the petition and I hope others will, too.
You can say that about Angry Birds or Doodle Jump, but when something is hate-mongering and clearly prejudice against a minority it has no place on the app store. It shouldn’t just be ignored.
religion is the opium of society
Different context. Different covenant.
But since you’re quoting scripture, I’m sure you knew that.
It’s “Religion is the opium of the masses.”
…and I don’t think you should lean on a quote from Communism’s founder Karl Marx to support your argument lol
You’re equally a bigot and equally ignorant for the comments regarding “religious” people that “you know.”
Stop generalizing an entire faith based on a few, poor interactions with specific individuals.
I suggest you take a few formal logic classes before you claim to understand rational/non-rational arguments.
(I can talk down to people too. It’s not difficult.)
Right-wing?
More stereotypes.
Grow up and learn to think objectively.
Living in a country that allows free speech means that sometimes you’re going to be offended.
M76
I’m a gay man. I agree with what you are saying. You accept people for who they are and what your God made them and love them the same regardless if your religion agrees. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
Living in a country that allows free speech means that sometimes you’re going to be offended
RD: While I agree with you in general I do have to take issue with one aspect of your viewpoint. As a gay man I hever had an issue admitting to myself who I am. We are who we are. We are all ‘hardwired’ the way we are. That being said, I think you do an injustice to people who may identify as ‘strugglers’. By stating that you are either gay or striaght you are showing a prejudice against people who identify as bisexual. Could strugglers be bisexuals that are having a hard time accepting what they are and are choosing to make a choice based on cultural norms? Yes, it’s possible. Are strugglers just gays that have been convinced by either culture or religion that they should change? Yes, it’s possible. Are you seeing my point? Maybe they are straight but just like to have the random homosexual experience. Your posts here sound more like hatred than some of the anti-gay posts.
It bothers me when gay men and women take this narrow minded extreme stance. It makes you no better than those you revile.
To the others:
Personallly, I’m out to my family and friends but not out at work. Some gays call me self-loathing and ashamed. I’m no such thing. I just don’t think it’s important. Being gay isn’t my entire being. If I had 10 words to describe myself, I can think of a lot of things to say before gay. I live my life, travel, enjoy my hobbies, my new ipad (this is an apple site right? :), and love my partner more than anything in the world.
Being gay isn’t about recognition, it’s about being transparent. My meaning is this: our goal is not just acceptance, but rather acceptance to the point of anonymity. So no one gives a damn if you are gay or not.
“self-loathers who want to crawl deeper into the closet” So if you’re born with a disability and try to find ways to fix it, you are a self-loather? I am not saying gayness is a disability, but if someone believed that it is a disability, they have every right to try to fix it. What about a mental disability? THEY don’t think they are mad, of course they wouldn’t.
“self-loathers who want to crawl deeper into the closet” So if you’re born with a disability and try to find ways to fix it, you are a self-loather? I am not saying gayness is a disability, but if someone believed that it is a disability, they have every right to try to fix it. What about a mental disability? THEY don’t think they are mad, of course they wouldn’t.
“The sooner the moronic right realise you have no more choice to be gay than you have to be left-handed or have green eyes the better the world would be.” People born with cancer don’t choose to have it either, but they still try to fix it.
Fascinating. There were 7000 signatures that encouraged Apple to remove the Manhattan Declaration? After visiting manhattandeclaration.org this just now, I see 486,887 signatures in support of it. Hmmm. Looks like something similar is taking place with the Exodus app, with a minority seeking to pull the right strings again.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know was homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know was homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
Dear Kozak,
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know was homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak seem to me to be the latter.
(not that any of this discussion has anything to do with the app. just sayin…)
Wow, that is a huge list of comments arguing about religion. All it boils down to is that religions like to persecute anyone ‘different’. I think the song “Jesus Christ Homosexual” by Corporate Avenger really sums up nicely why this whole argument is silly. I know most people won’t give it a listen but if you do, its hard to argue with the logic.
I think you should read what he actually said!
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak seem to me to be the latter.
Dear Kozak,
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
Cool dog! :)
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
No party has the right to take away another party’s rights. Ever. No faction, group, or individual can remove from another faction, group, or individual, their natural, inalienable right to the freedom of speech. NO MATTER THE MESSAGE. Be their message loving, kind, sour, hurtful, reasonable, logical, irresponsible, impossible, or even offensive, a party’s right to speak, publish, sing, spread, or film their opinion, position, bias, judgement, standpoint, or viewpoint MUST REMAIN INTACT.
What gives anyone the right to tell another group what they can or cannot say? When I protect my enemy’s right to speak freely, I PROTECT MY OWN RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY IN RESPONSE. If I allow another party’s rights to be abolished, HOW CAN I BE SURE OF MY OWN RIGHTS? WHAT WILL BE NEXT?
If another party’s message is the polar opposite of my own message, if what they stand for is the exact converse of what I stand for, IF WHAT THEY SAY MAKES MY SKIN CRAWL, you can bet that I will be speaking out on my plank’s behalf, for what I stand for, with all of my heart. BUT I will respect and protect their ability to argue and present a standpoint.
I do not have an opinion on this issue, but I will say that if anyone is wrong in this issue, it is the people that suggest the solution is taking away a party’s ability to publish something they believe in. The main concern of the article in question is whether or not an app should be removed from the store. The answer to this question is NO. If the app follows all of the guidelines and restrictions set forth by apple, and does not break any laws, it is completely allowed to be published. How can it not be?
How can a group of people petition to remove an app from the store? Sounds like a committee on banning books to me. My god, petitions were not invented for a group of people to complain that an app didn’t comply with their principles. In was put together to change laws or to recall representatives.
I will try to make this quite plain.
If you dislike something for any reason, don’t purchase it, don’t download it, don’t have anything to do with it. Instead, please FREELY speak out WHY you don’t like it; WHAT about the product you didn’t like.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
@PPP and Ryan, this has nothing to do with the church or religion. I never called any gay person crazy. I’m not even suggesting being gay is wrong or immoral. And I’m not brainwashed because I took the time to truly research 100+ years of hard science on the issue. And many theories exist, but for me and many other guys I know, it is primarily a psychological issue. If people want to be gay, that’s totally cool with me. I have many gay friends and still enjoy great friendships with them. But to say that complete change isn’t possible is a lie. There are many guys like me that have changed.
What further solidifies in my mind that same sex attractions aren’t purely biological is the fact that one of my previous boyfriends was an identical twin: he was gay, his brother straight. And what about guys that remain married for years and then start cheating on their wives with men, etc. I know guys that aren’t attracted to anything, not guys or girls. Sexuality is a swinging pendulum in the mind, and it goes from one level to another based on many factors, just like one’s level of arousal or sexual desire.
I’m not suppressing anything. Quite the opposite: I’m meeting my needs for male bonding (just like any other straight guy) in healthy, platonic ways.
the app should be pulled off from iTunes, there is enough hate towards gay people as it is, give it a rest will you…
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
There is a difference between faith and reason. You have good reason and evidence that causes you to believe that your home will be there when you return. This is because it is a physical thing that would take a large amount of energy to remove, and it would be highly unlikely for it not to be there. There are also no good reasons to believe the opposite, because why wouldn’t your home be there? This is not faith, this is using reason and your perception to create a reliable belief-forming process. Faith on the other hand, would be something like believing there is a unicorn in your backyard without any evidence or good reason to suggest there is a unicorn. Faith is the absence of critical thinking, and is not a reliable belief-forming process.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
So, what was this “homosexual lifestyle” you were living. You keep saying that but have not defined it. I’m gay. I have a partner of 13 years. We own two homes. We own a bed and breakfast. We are usually in bed by 10 pm and up by 7:30 am. We have a life. How is our “homosexual lifestyle” any different from a “heterosexual lifestyle?”
It’s not anything about lifestyles. It’s about who you are. I was raised in a christian home, but at a young age knew there was something different about me. I grew up in a small town and didn’t even know what homosexuality was until i came across it in a library book as a teenager. I knew then, that’s what I was. I never tried to change that. What I did was try to sort out how that fit into my life as a son, as a brother, as a christian. All the things that makes us who we are. Unfotunately, especially back then, there was no room for who I was in the church.
I’ve met others like you, who claim to have changed. It doesn’t matter how that change came about. but what I believe is, based admittedly only on people I’ve known, that people who changed their sexuality have either repressed it and lied to themselves, or they were never really gay to begin with. You, Kozak, seem to me to be the latter.
Many are advocating censorship; once on that road, where does it stop? Who decides?
The app should stay.
People can choose to purchase it or not; no one is being forced to partake.
I disagree completely with Exodus International but I think it would be wrong for Apple to pull it if it has stayed within Apple’s app guidelines. As many people there are who willing to sign a petition to remove it, there are even more people who are willing to sign a petition to remove apps that are thought to ‘promote a gay agenda’ whatever that means.
Well-meaning people should be careful not to employ weapons that can be easily turned against them.
And your proof there is no genetic cause for homosexuality is?
Thought so.
Just like some folks are born learning disabled, physically disabled, schizophrenic etc, it is possible that some folks are in fact ‘born gay’
Let’s not forget that Christianity is based on Christ. A man who, in your sacrosanct Holy Bible, protected the life of a slutty whore who by Old Testament law should have been stoned to death. He was about love not hate. And as a Christian you are supposed to follow his teachings. So get off the hate wagon
I have been to the site and the is no love for homosexuality et . This whole group is based on ‘it is a sin, you won’t get I to heaven and we are going to fix you.’
They are also anti same sex unions, adoptions and so on
But they do get points for not endorsing violence and even disagreeing with the notion that God gave AIDS to gays to kill them off like some groups have claimed.
They are anti but I wouldn’t call it hate speech so while I disagree with the opinions I would scream to shut them up.
Freedom of speech also doesn’t mean freedom from societal push-back. People are free to be anti-woman, anti-black, or anti-gay bigots all they want. But once society has moved on, there are going to be consequences to such beliefs. The right to free speech protects us from the government, but it won;t protect you from society. Being “respectful” about it doesn’t make much difference. Its just as insulting to claim that gay people are “afflicted” or “broken” as it is to say such an ignorant thing about women or blacks.
Who decides? Apple decides. It’s their store.
This is not government censorship its a private company conducting business. Companies censor all sorts of items in their stores daily. Wal-Mart chooses to carry one magazine but not another. Barnes and Noble chooses which books go on their shelves. Given that Apple is a liberal minded company with policies gay, lesbian and transgendered employees I’d say they have a lot of reasons for rejecting such an app.
I don’t think the government should ban apps like this (ie, censorship), but I do think Apple should think twice before putting something in its store that could hurt countless gay children and teens, who are the victims of these vicious monsters pedaling the message that being gay is wrong or shameful.
why are people discussing the value of religion here, thats another debate. The fact is that there are people who are trying to force their will on other people. And that in the end of the day is heinous in every sort of way, just sign the petition people and have this app pulled!
I’d love to hear what the “proper” context to frame that passage is.
Amen to that.
Listening to the deranged ramblings of the brainwashed perpetrators of this kind of organized religion is offensive and disturbing. Hate mongering should made illegal, it’s a destructive self-serving scourge in our society.
Well, as with anything, it is how the message is delivered and who the message is coming from. If the message states that it (homosexuality) is wrong (an abomination), then the message is using fear as a means to change someone. That, William, is hate.
If a person reads that message, and is struggling with how he will be accepted within his/her family and friends, it will lead to more psychological damage. How? Because if that person is truly gay, and no matter what they do to change doesn’t work, the message has instilled a fear in them that could lead to drastic reactions (such as suicide).
If the message is coming from an organization that is supporting (or helping to do so) another group/organization that spreads hate messages (godhatesfags.org) then it is clear that the message is, in fact, hatred.
Guilt by association. Or, as it is stated better… “Birds of a feather flock together”.
The problem truly is not with the gay community. Sexual identity, in my experience, has never been the “main” identity in homosexuals.
In truth, the Christian (organized religion) has kept the sexuality thing going by trying to “persuade” people that who they are is wrong.
There are more things that the Christians (organized religion) could be doing to better the world than to keep jumping on the sexuality bandwagon. Instead, they keep spending more time, money and resources to battle this. Why?
Christianity (organized religion) is about submission. If they can keep you submissive, they control your every thought and action. Homosexuals (and any liberal thinking person) are the most resistive to this.
Think about it this way. You, by tithing, are actually paying a man to sit in his home for 5 days a week (with the exception of a few in home visits to the most wealthy of the parishioners) and do nothing but read. The other 2 days (approximately 4 hours) he tells you what he “thinks” the bible means.
If everyone were to read the bible themselves, and make up their own mind, he would be out of a job… a very very profitable job.
Now, as the homosexual (openly) group is growing, this is an opportunity for them to “convert” and get more money (tithes). It also makes them look good to their current parishioners. They know it is a battle that will never be won (for either side, really) but it is an easy battle because it uses the least amount of brainpower (only about 7 verses in the bible regarding homosexuality) and it is a touchy subject for so many.
So, think really hard about your organized religion. And remember, while you are driving a Ford and barely surviving in this economy… your pastor is eating out, driving a new car, and living in a house that you bought… all for sitting on his butt for 5 days a week. But you will overlook that because he is fighting against, what? Something that in no way affects your everyday life.
Well, William, the idea that homosexuality is an abomination without any proof (evidence) is appallingly offensive, ignorant and discrimination. And, the Bible (which was written for a different age) or God (whom has never been proved in the slightest) can not be considered proof.
Just remember, if you follow one part of the bible, you have to follow it all! Can’t pick and choose.
Those who feel they can rationally argue being ‘against’ homosexuality always make me laugh. It’s not really funny – I know it’s not funny – but I can’t help it. It leaves me trying to figure out what I could be against, if I wanted, or could find insensible for human beings to engage in, based on my own, completely subjective and unfounded views on human nature. I mean, some people differ from me – SOMETHING must be off. Maybe herring? The practice of showering and sexing simultaneously? Democracy, perhaps – some people seem to find it unnatural and hard to stick with. Me too of course, as democracy kind of seem to derive from difference. Should i try to engage people in a reform project to pray away those who love the freckled? Obviously I will want to talk about these things with others – my well founded arguments will surely sway the souls lost to herring and freckle-loving. Eventually.
I attempted suicide arfter spending many years in exodus. How much more evidence of the danger of these programs do you need.
Dude, you have said that like seven times already. Okay, your straight now. Were you even gay, or just bisexual? The fact is, if you still have attractions to the same sex, no matter if you suppress them or not… you are still gay. You are just not an active homosexual.
Anything you deny yourself will eventually fade. It doesn’t mean you are cured, you are just complacent.
No, Peter, we are the least tolerant when a group tries to force their beliefs on another group/person. That is what religion has done from the very beginning of its existence.
If a person is homosexual, why change. What exactly is the benefit? Nothing. If people stop “loving” you because you are homosexual, then they never loved you to begin with. If God stops loving you because you are homosexual, he never loved you to begin with.
Accept who you are and then love yourself. You can’t find love from others if you don’t accept and love yourself.
Nutz, there is NOTHING debilitating about homosexuality. There is nothing to fix. You are comparing a medical definition of disability with a religious definition. Medical is based on facts and evidence. This app, and the viewpoint that homosexuality is wrong (or a disability), is based on a book that was supposedly inspired by a person/thing/creature that in no way can be proved in the least little bit.
Christianity has spent the better part of two-thousand years tearing down society, politics and people in order to ensure that we remain submissive to a entity that is non-existent (can’t be proved in any way). It is time that we release ourselves from that tyranny. Christianity (and organized religion) is dying. Everyone knows it. That is why it is fighting so hard. It is trying to find another foothold to stay alive with.
What amazes me… With all the education, technology, reasoning skills and logic that we have developed as a species… we still believe in fairy tales.
There is, as far as I can see, no such thing as “pro-LGBT” anything. There is being against, and not being against. I hardly think anyone, anywhere, are trying to convert those with only opposite-sex attractions, or clamoring to outlaw heterosexuals from marrying and having kids. Just like women’s rights aren’t about women being better than men, or overtaking the privileges granted to men because of their gender. It’s about equality, and as long as you aren’t against a specific group, that’s what you’re PRO. NOT inverting the distribution of advantages and rights, which I think must be the (convoluted) definition of being pro-LGBT.
Of course, I may very well be wrong! I am, after all, from a secularised European country where same-sex marriage has been allowed for more than 20 years. Where the general opinion is that opposition to homosexuality is somewhat… primordial.
And btw, those xenophobic, anti-semitic nations of Europe – which, I completely agree, are very much a problem – have no (and this is no generalisation) convergence with the secular European countries. Actually, In Europe, the countries that have these traits, are the heavily (mainly) catholic countries – where religion is heavily present in government as well.
Which apart from xenophobia and anti-semitism are also characterised by widespread homophobia and sexuality-based hate-crime.
Living in a country that allows free speech means that sometimes we will defend ourselves from the offender.
Freedom of speech unchecked by society will always lead to a negative end.
Why not, it fits so well. ;-)
Remember, we are not talking about the United States. We are talking about a business. You have the right to serve whom you want in a business… as long as it does not discriminate.
Apple will see this as a negative impact on the business. It has the right to pull the app from the store.
For those of you claiming homosexuality is a “lifestyle”, that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/r…
http://www.newscientist.com/ch…
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0…
http://www.livescience.com/hea…
http://www.springerlink.com/co…
http://blogs.discovermagazine….
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
And it should also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”
There is no scientific evidence that proves that reparative therapy works.
Read more about the damage being done by “ex-gays” and Exodus International here
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
As a form of treatment, all the major mental health organizations reject ‘reparative therapy’ as both ineffective and potentially very harmful.
Reparative therapy and the ex-gay organizations have been proven wrong by peer-reviewed scientific evidence.
spitzers reparative therapy
spitzer’s study was peer-reviewed, and these were the conclusions “Two years later, the paper was peer reviewed and published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.[2] The publication decision sparked controversy and one sponsoring member resigned in protest. The paper has been criticized for using non-random sampling and poor criteria for success.[“
http://www.religioustolerance….
ugh… why must 90% of mac fans be godless libtards
When will people learn, while Americans enjoy “certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness,” it does not necessaily mean you have a right not to be offended. If you don’t like it, don’t download it, turn it off, or don’t read it. Censor yourself, not everyone else.
Just because some people call it an “act of god” doesn’t mean it is one. Earthquakes are part of the physics of the planet and have nothing to do with any “god”. Unless you’re Rush Limbaugh.
I prefer Homer Simpson.
Except that he was right.
Ugh, why must 90% of the people on the internet be hateful trolls like you.
Because pastors go into the ministry to sit on their butts and become rich. Not because of a conviction of character or anything. Or a desire to help.
Bottom line: it’s not todays Christians that are bigots. If you have to point a finger at somebody, point it at those who WROTE the bible. The only reason people believe that homosexuality is a sin is because the bible says it is.
For the record, it also says that murder is a sin. Can you believe that? Those freakin’ bigots.
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
http://www.soulfoodministry.or…
http://www.jesus21.com/content…
http://www.christchapel.com/re…
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/…
http://www.gaychristian101.com…
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Te…
http://www.wouldjesusdiscrimin…
http://www.soulforce.org/artic…
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/spi…
For those of you claiming homosexuality is a “lifestyle”, that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/r…
http://www.newscientist.com/ch…
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0…
http://www.livescience.com/hea…
http://www.springerlink.com/co…
http://blogs.discovermagazine….
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
And it should also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”
There is no scientific evidence that proves that reparative therapy works.
Read more about the damage being done by “ex-gays” and Exodus International here
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
As a form of treatment, all the major mental health organizations reject ‘reparative therapy’ as both ineffective and potentially very harmful.
Reparative therapy and the ex-gay organizations have been proven wrong by peer-reviewed scientific evidence.
spitzers reparative therapy
spitzer’s study was peer-reviewed, and these were the conclusions “Two years later, the paper was peer reviewed and published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.[2] The publication decision sparked controversy and one sponsoring member resigned in protest. The paper has been criticized for using non-random sampling and poor criteria for success.[“
http://www.religioustolerance….
it is a belief that this group has. you have the right to disagree with them, but because you don’t like something someone says does mean it is hateful, it just means you don’t like it
Oh, so there’s a context which you can give to that part of the bible that justifies it? I was just giving some perspective to Dominekers’ quote.
The bible is full of passages about rape and incest, and I can’t say the prescribed punishments quite hold up today.
But since you’re defending scripture, i’m sure you knew that.
At Gay Life Coach (http://www.gaylifecoach.co.uk), we help gay men to be happier and more fulfilled.
Our clients include practising Christians.
Many of them have been through ex-gay ministries such as Exodus. They have caused themselves enormous pain in a desperate attempt to ‘cure’ themselves of their homosexuality. We have supported many to accept, then celebrate the fullness of their gay identity, often in face of this church opposition.
The call for a ban on this Exodus app is a tricky one though. On the one hand we find what Exodus does abhorrent, but as believers in free speech we believe they have a right to offer this app. Let them condemn themselves by their misguided and barely disguised fear and hatred of homosexuality.
And let us take this as a call to action to continue to find ways to provide support, solace and community to those who will then recognise Exodus’s dark closet for what it is, and dance out into the light, with us!
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to condone their hate.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
(Change *** to www)
***.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
***.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
***.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
***.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
***.gaychristian101.com/
***.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
***.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
***.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
***.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.html
Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
(Change *** to www)
***-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/…
***.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
***.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
***.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
***.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
And it should also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”
There is no scientific evidence that proves that reparative therapy works.
Read more about the damage being done by “ex-gays” and Exodus International here
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
http://www.thegaymanifesto.com…
As a form of treatment, all the major mental health organizations reject ‘reparative therapy’ as both ineffective and potentially very harmful.
Reparative therapy and the ex-gay organizations have been proven wrong by peer-reviewed scientific evidence.
spitzers reparative therapy
spitzer’s study was peer-reviewed, and these were the conclusions “Two years later, the paper was peer reviewed and published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.[2] The publication decision sparked controversy and one sponsoring member resigned in protest. The paper has been criticized for using non-random sampling and poor criteria for success.[“
http://www.religioustolerance….
because you call it love or help does mean it is.
i’m not the droid your looking for.
Trust me, gay people know exactly what “christian” love is all about.
No thank you.
I don’t know ask Stalin and Hitler….
“I’m far more moral and do far more good in the world as an atheist than any religious people I know.”
So who or what sets the standard? In some countries people love their neighbors in other countries people eat their neighbors. What might be good to you might not be good to someone else. How do you know what is good?
“that if you love God enough and pray hard enough, you can wish away the gay — nearly drove me to suicide when I was 22 years old.”
I’m sorry you wen through this situation (Truely). However, keep in mind some people might pray and wish away the gay… In other countries they end up far worse… Many people don’t live in a place that have freedom of speech or religion or the right to live and be who they are.
Biology 101 if you can’t reproduce you can’t pass along any gene’s.
we do not hate you… and if you are faced with the people who are going to stone you, many of us will try and protect your life… many who don’t agree already do. This is call Freedom, Freedom of Life, Freedom of Speech.
We love you we just don’t agree with you…
Please don’t compare us or an app to what other countries do to gays.
…if it’s possible some gays are born that way. Then it’s possible some gays are not born that way…
Please don’t compare an app to the murdering monsters that do exist in countries where Freedom of Life, Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Religion don’t exist.
Remember it is many of us in these so called “anit-gay cults” that help ensure these Freedoms continue to exist so that what happens there never comes here.
There are many types of bigots. Straight bigots, gay bigots, religious bigots, anti-religious bigots…….
Be careful you don’t become a different form of the thing you despise.
My mom said it’s a sin to steal… does that mean she hates me cuz I took a cookie out of the cookie jar…..what do I do…..but…. everyone steals at least once in their life……. I guess it’s natural……. but those stupid laws say you’ll go to jail if you steal……….wow there’s a lot of hate speech going around…….
…because with only education, technology, reasoning skills and logic and none of the “fairy tales” we’ll end up like Stalin and Hitler.
ahhh… but some cancer is a result of bad lifestyle and diet. The question is are you gay because of the gene’s or the lifestyle…
What’s better christian love of islam love? Try being gay in one of the those countries…
… Remember the Freedoms of Life, Liberty, Speech, and Religion are a result of the “Christian Love” we have..
Especially when we force such beliefs as Freedom of Life,Liberty,Speech and Religion….
….The police said they’ll take me to jail if I steal…..are they forcing their will on me…….. heinous isn’t it…..
Where’s the petition to keep the app in the app store…..I’ll sign it…really I will….
I already signed this one… using my
First Name: Keeptheapp
Last Name: Apple…….
Yes, but if I have pink skin and can’t reproduce. Guess what….. I’ll be the last person with pink skin…..
Yes, but if I have pink skin and can’t reproduce. Guess what….. I’ll be the last person with pink skin…..
Would you say the same thing about straight children and teens who are being pedaled that they might be gay?
Actually I’d be tempted to buy more Apple products if the keep it up..
I guess that means if I don’t follow one part of the Bible I shouldn’t follow any of it…..like do not steal, murder,covet….etc.
“There is no scientific evidence that proves that reparative therapy works.”
There’s probably none to show that it doesn’t work
There is a lot of media bias against groups like Exodus International. I just want to to present a different side for your consideration, even though you probably won’t agree. Exodus is all about helping people and leading them into a relationship with Jesus Christ, fully accepting that not everyone will choose this faith path. Their ministry is evangelical and Christian and non-denominational. They get branded by the liberal media and the pro-gay lobby that they are a “gay cure” group. That is not so.
Exodus helps people who want to leave unhealthy lifestyles. Some people are homosexual and very happy; for others it is destroying them. Some people cannot reconcile their homosexuality with their Christian faith and want to walk away from unhealthy behaviors. Exodus is not claiming that a homosexual can simply change and never have homosexual feelings and tendencies again. They ARE claiming that through faith and a lot of support, not just from their ministry but also compassionate local ministries and churches that — someone can walk away from homosexual behaviors, meaning homosexual sex.
Exodus has helped a lot of people in 30+ years. Surely there are some who started down a recovery process and went back to being actively homosexual. This can be true of any number of organizations and ministries, such as AA who help people that fully recover.
To be successful in an Exodus or Exodus-like program, it is necessary to adopt a Biblical worldview. Exodus realizes that this isn’t for everybody either. I truly believe in one of their foundational teachings — the opposite of homosexuality isn’t heterosexuality, it’s holiness. There is a difference between someone having a homosexual orientation / disposition and living the homosexual lifestyle.
Some question whether or not moving from homosexuality to heterosexuality is possible. I would like to offer up Sy Rogers, as a very bold example. He was helped through ministries like Exodus 30 years ago, ended up working for Exodus and now has his own ministry where he helps those with many different kinds of sexual brokenness.
http://www.syrogers.com/
I want to let you know that I too dealt with homosexuality for many years. I am now 30 and after getting so much rejection from churches, have come to embrace ministries like Exodus because they present Biblical truth in a loving way. For so long, our conservative churches have tried to WIN THE ARGUMENT (which was stupid because most Christian homosexuals would agree with what the Bible says on this issue) instead of helping the homosexual FIGHT THE DAILY BATTLE that will continue until they leave this earth.
If this APP was removed, I think I would definitely sell my iPad, but probably wouldn’t go as far as selling my MacBook. I know I am in the minority on this.
I just wanted to present the other side in a peaceful rational manner. This is the “other side” to the issue that is not commonly or articulately presented.
weak.
you couldn’t make it to the advanced course.
i’m pretty sure your mom hates you to.
The passage means that if a man violates a women HE must provide for HER. NOT that she must marry him.
The passage is “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/pa…
It doesn’t matter what the cause is. Fat people won’t say, “Oh, I am fat because of my lifestyle, so I won’t try to fix it.” The cause is irrelevant to a problem, except when you have decided to solve it. When deciding whether or not to solve it, then it ceases to be relevant. What IS relevant is that there is a problem. Or not, if you don’t think being gay is a problem.
Personally, I do, but I’m gonna let them live their lives. Just like I think adultery is wrong, but I let them carry on with their lives.
Also, whether homosexuality is wrong or not is irrelevant in the argument here (between you and I, not the app or anything).
She said, “love for homesexuals”, not “love for homosexualITY”. I can dislike behaviours my child gets into, like drugs, but I still love my child.
She said, “love for homesexuals”, not “love for homosexualITY”. I can dislike behaviours my child gets into, like drugs, but I still love my child.
Doesn’t it say that God loves everyone, including homosexuals?
Like I said, I am not claiming that it is a disease. But if a gay person DOES believe it is, they have their rights. Say I had cancer. I would think of it as something wrong with me. I would not take kindly to someone trying to stop me, saying “There is NOTHING debilitating about cancer. Accept yourself for who you are”
There is nothing “wrong” per se with a broken leg either, but I’d still try to fix it by getting a new leg or a wooden leg or whatever.
I don’t think gay people will harm the world’s population. It’s already spiraling out of control. If anything, most glbt help keep the population in check, and often help adopt unwanted children.
What happens if someone posted an app trying to cure black people from being black? Many of us would be screaming for it to be pulled.
Free Speech is a *limited* consitutional right given to us. It doesn’t apply in all places, and the app store has rules and regulations. So the free speech right is does not have authority in a privately run application store. Apple can make its own rules, and it will, at times, bend to the will of the consumer. Basically if more people want something pulled vs kept. Apple will pull it or vice versa.
I agree this app is misguided and silly, but I also support free speech and an open marketplace. By those principles, I say let the app remain. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it.
Sorry if the idea of open competition is offensive — must be my libertarian bias.