Adobe: There’s No Flash on iPad Because Apple Is Protecting Content Revenue
9:14 pm, January 29th, 2010, Leander Kahney
How the web will look on the Flash-less iPad, according to Adobe.
Why is there no Adobe Flash on the iPad? Adobe says it’s not because it’s buggy, as an Apple source claimed this afternoon to CultofMac.com.
It’s because Apple is protecting revenue streams derived from content like movies and games. If users could watch free TV shows on Hulu, they wouldn’t buy them through iTunes.
“It’s pretty clear if you connect the dots: the issue is about revenue,” says Adrian Ludwig, an Adobe group product manager for Flash, during a telephone interview on Friday afternoon.
Adobe's Adrian Ludwig demonstrating Flash apps on the iPhone. Picture by Flashstreamworks.
While Steve Jobs says the iPad offers the best web-browsing experience, Flash isn’t part of it. Adobe’s plug-in is nowhere to be found, making popular sites such as YouTube and Hulu useless on Apple’s new device. Likewise, Flash is also absent from the iPhone and iPod touch.
Ludwig flatly denies that Flash is excluded from Apple’s mobile devices because it is buggy, crash-prone or puts an excessive strain on batteries.
Ludwig says there is no technical reason that Flash should not be on the iPad as well as the iPhone. Adobe is working with about 50 partners in the mobile space, including big names like Google, Nokia and HTC, as well as 19 out of 20 handset manufacturers. (See Adobe’s Open Screen Project website). Ludwig said the Flash player is stable and would perform well on hardware like the iPad.
“We’ve been seeing great performance on similar devices,” he said. “The hardware is very capable.”
But Ludwig notes that if Flash were available on the iPad, users could watch TV shows on Hulu for free instead of buying them through iTunes. Likewise, users could play some of the hundreds of Flash games on sites like Miniclip, instead of buying games through the App Store, on which Apple takes a 30% cut of every sale.
“Apple has eliminated any way to get content on the device that they don’t own,” says Ludwig. “Apple is keeping the device closed to protect their revenue streams.”
Ludwig notes that other companies’ technologies that could be used to serve content or games are also excluded — Java, Ruby, Python and .Net.
“We’re not the only one,” he says. “Flash is what people are focused on but it’s not just Flash that’s not working. They’ve blocked a whole lot more than that… It’s a universal restriction.”
“We’re trying to raise the issue,” he adds. “We’re talking about long-term damage to the development environment. We’re just the poster child for this.”
Ludwig says Adobe has been working closely with Apple on Flash for the iPhone (he didn’t say if or when it would ship), but wasn’t aware Apple had tested it on the iPad.
“We haven’t received any communication that they are testing Flash on the iPad or any feedback about its performance,” Ludwig says. “If there’s any truth that it’s buggy, I’d love to help them out.”
Apple didn’t respond to a request for comment.
Posted by Leander Kahney in Apple, Apple Tablet, News, Top stories, iPad | Comment on this article
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I don’t think Adobe is helping their case. Perhaps if they made a less buggy, less crash prone, generally better piece of software, they might be included. As it stands, Flash is just crappy software. Apple is making the right decision here.
goodrichard, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
This was all pretty obvious, but equally obvious is that the iPad has a screen large enough that people expect it to be a full web browser and it’s absolutely impossible for anyone to have a full web browser these days without flash. It’s like having a browser that doesn’t display images.
It’s also obvious that the iPad is going after the netbook segment to some extent, and again nobody will buy a netbook without a flash-capable browser. (Arguably nobody will buy a netbook without a keyboard either, but Apple seems to have thought of that issue.)
Robert, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
As for the Youtube is useless on the iPad… Well there’s an App for that!
But seriously, HTML 5 is on the way and you can actually try the Flash-free version of Youtube on it’s Test tube site.
It may be the push the Web designers needed to start making great dynamic sites without having the hassle to use plugins. And that would not be to control the market and force users to pay for the content, but actually using the Web as it may become. Plugins-free! Works out of the box in any browsers… Respecting W3C standards…
Bill, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Flash is getting old fashion people. I desing webpages and more than the 50% is asking to un-flash their sites (if that’s a word) so please change the subject. Even android isn’t showing flash either.
Albert Kinng, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Yeah I know, no Flash and no camera…I still think it’s a great product that will only get better. Price will come down, memory will go up within a year or two.
But what about the fight over the iPad name with Fujitsu? It’s going to be real interesting to see where this story goes. Will Apple actually have to give up the name iPad at this stage in the game? Wow, that would be a site to see.
Check it out:
http://www.ipadlot.com
Fretboard, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
“We’re talking about long-term damage…” Yeah, to Adobe’s bottom line.
“users could play some of the hundreds of Flash games…” rigggght, and how will you control those flash games without a mouse and keyboard?
Buncha Adobe B.S.
Pustoolio, on January 29th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
@Bill : You’re absolutely correct about HTML5 and how it will pave the way for the next round of web advances and free us from plugins in general. However, I have to respectfully disagree on the fact that Flash is not a viable candidate here. Flash is different, it has its fair share of problems, but it is also integral to the online world we’re all accustomed to. I might like the occasional use of the youtube app, but the web interface is more useful with all content right there at hand. Apple could have twisted Adobe’s arm on this one and made sure Adobe develops a stable version for the iPad or Flash is a no-go on the iPad. I don’t see its use on the iPhone though.
Flash is today’s product, and widely in use today for just about everything. While HTML5 will certainly make its way into the market flash currently holds, it will not happen overnight; thus, in the interim, a Flash solution could be had. I see no other reason other than protection of those billions of dollars of revenue – and Apple might just be right to do so, since they’re in the business to make money and Flash could easily give a lot of it away.
Salah Ahmed, on January 29th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
If people want flash they can buy the other 499 super tablets. Oops.. there aren’t any…
There aren’t any because Apple can subsidize their price with their share of content revenue. Already reading the news today the other device makers are scratching their heads on how to match Apple’s price.
People might criticize Apple but Apple is providing a market for a lot of developers and content providers to monetize their work. And because people can make money in Apple’s eco-system great content is going to be available.
website makers have already been amply warned: if they want their videos to be seen on a large chunk of the mobile web: don’t use flash. There are already 75 million iPhone iPod Touch users.
Adobe isn’t a charity either. There was a scheme to use Flash as a kind of OS for all kinds of applications etc. As a owner of Adobe Creative Suite Premium I KNOW Adobe wants to make money… !
DaveW, on January 29th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
HTML5 will be cool and all but why does anyone expect it will be different from any previous standard? HTML 1,2,3.4, Javascript, Client Side Java – not once has a standard technology rendered the same on all browsers. And where’s the dev tools that are needed once the application complexity goes beyond web pages? HTML5 just isn’t the answer for web-based application delivery.
Kurt, on January 29th, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Well now the iPad is pretty lame.
If Apple is worried about us using the iPhone and iPad to view movies on hulu rather than iTunes, then this worries me. What if Apple deiced to release this pathedic excuse of an operating system for a REAL computer like a MacBook or iMac?
What if Apple sees this as the future?
Ryantheappleguy, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
What what!!!? No pornPad?!?!!!
Jizzo, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
No loss to me, really. Flash pretty much sucks. I suspect it will die, if slowly, as devices stop supporting it.
Tyler, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
I thought html5 had some flash-less, wmv-less, quicktime-less video crap that was supposed to be the hot shiznit!? What’s up with that?
Jizzo, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
If you really want to know the truth, ask every Mac user if Flash hogs their system resources and freezes/crashes their browsers. I work as a system administrator and consultant and can tell you that Flash is awful software that crashes Macs and kills the user experience. Your average user does not know enough to distinguish the fault but there is a program called Clicktoflash which allows users to disable Flash and enable it temporarily and specifically if they have to watch flash content. ASk the average user after installing Clicktoflash if his/her performance is better and you’l see the truth. Adobe is indifferent to Mac users, arrogant and undeserving of any Apple consideration, if only because of this. Adobe knows it’s Buggy, I’ve spent endless hours getting a runaround and hogwash from Adobe Tech support that refuse to do anything about t and basically say – too bad when we find a solution we will let you know – This for about 2 years now. Flash really sucks.
R, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
I won’t purchase an iPhone or iPad until they support flash in within the Safari browser. There is too much flash content on the internet to miss, period.
wg, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
If HTML 5 can do ‘everything’ that Flash can, then expect the iPad (and iPod Touch and iPhone) NEVER to support it, or to support a HEAVILY CRIPPLED version of it.
Because, let’s face it, they want to make you pay for all of that content. They don’t want you to have JAVA or FLASH or whatever other kinds of content that can cut into their app store.
If you only want the SMALL subset of the internet, and don’t think you’ll be frustrated with ‘blue boxes’ where free and legal content, MEANT TO BE FREE should have been, by all means buy this thing without Flash.
So I’ll wait the 9 months to a year for the ‘iPad killer’. If it has a REAL browser without limitations (i.e. Chrome OS?), and works about the same, then the iPad will not be able to compete with it at all.
I have a Mac. I have an iPod touch. Frankly, the iPod touch is only really useful for playing music. Make it bigger, and it just won’t fit in my pocket. Even allowing for the tiny screen, the web experience on it is pitiful.
evildave, on January 29th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
The only comment I have for this article is…SO WHAT? So what if apple is trying to protect their revenue streams…isn’t Adobe trying to increase their revenue stream by trying to get onto the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch platform? (Increasing revenue streams and protecting revenue streams are kind of the same if you think about it!!) Companies for years have been trying to protect their revenue streams by trying to lock out other people. I not saying, I am just saying!
Leland, on January 30th, 2010 at 12:06 am
@evildave It is already supporting HTML 5…. Some Apple engineers are actually on the specification project, as well as Google’s…
Bill, on January 30th, 2010 at 12:57 am
The fact that is doesn’t have flash is THE reason I will not consider one of these. It’s one of the main reasons I’ve considered giving up my iPhone as well.
Nathan, on January 30th, 2010 at 12:57 am
I support Apple’s decision. Flash is highly overrated and out of date. It requires an additional download, and it’s a resource hog. iPhones and iPads are mobile devices, battery life is essential.
There are too many alternatives to Flash for Adobe to sit there and complain instead of taking action. Come on guys, you’re ADOBE. Surely you can think of a mobile alternative to Flash.
Kevin Cassidy, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:07 am
Well I hate Flash based sites, and I don’t really care to go to them anyway.
Down with Flash.
Yeah Apple’s probably blocking for the revenue too, but on either Windows or Macs Flash seems buggy, contrary to what Ludwig is espousing.
IcyFog, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:16 am
You guys have lost touch. Stop eating the fruit, it is making you robots. I work with Adobe every single day of my life, on a Mac might I add. Adobe is killer. It is the standard. It’s not buggy. I love Adobe ten times more than I love Apple. Well, maybe twice as much. I wont scrap my Mac for anything, but this my friends is a load of crap. A company should never force their way upon you at this level (I use the word force because I really wanted to buy an iPad). The iPad is the worst slap in the face to true Mac supporters. How can you stand on stage and lie your face off about your product being the best browsing experience ever, knowing you have excluded a portion (or all) of content on almost 70-80 percent of all web sites? Pure BS. Fail. Save up some extra dough and get a MB Pro. You will thank me later.
Joseph, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:18 am
What does Flash do? Honestly? I don’t understand what everyone is so upset about? Can someone please tell me why I should care that there is no Flash?
Conrad, on January 30th, 2010 at 3:18 am
Joseph said: “I love Adobe ten times more than I love Apple.”
Then you are already biased, partisan, and have NOTHING fair or objective to say. But thanks for your useless rant anyways.
Liam, on January 30th, 2010 at 3:26 am
I d agree with Kevin Cassidy’s comment. Flash is a processor hog and drains battery pretty fast and as Apple claims yes it does crash flash plugin on safari quite a number of times. Buggy battery draining Flash Plugin vs 10 hours of battery for the same sleek iPad design. Same is the reason Apple doesn’t allow flash plugin for safari on iphone.
And regarding selling videos TV Shows on iTunes, Adobe should start looking at Youtube application on iPhone which is not feasible as flash embedded websites but has lots of TV shows almost all of the music videos.
I would certainly say Apple Made a Clever decision keeping buggy Flash away from its mobile devices.
conjugate, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:23 am
No Flash on iPad is only problem for Apple users, no doubt there will be other iPad clones soon using their own OS and supporting Flash.
I will probably buy the wifi version of iPad around December if it has no major problems.
how long before we see the iPad Jailbroken?
Poppa, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:28 am
Flash is indeed buggy… on Mac… It crashed several times on my iMac but I NEVER saw it crash on my pc…
TG, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:38 am
Flash is Trash!
It’s a buggy, memory hogging piece of hurt on the Mac! HTML5 is the future for us Mac users.
Paul, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:17 am
Adobe, make Flash worthy of use on the Mac then demand it to be included on every Apple device.
Other than that STFU, and if you want a device that support Flash go and buy it.
Flash is eye-candy, nothing more nothing less.
As it is right now, it is because of Adobe lack of respect for Mac users. But we are few compared to millions of Microsoft or better Bill Gates fans out there, so why should Adobe care?
Deocliciano, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:25 am
Some things to consider:
Flash is the #1 cause of crashes on OS X.
The iPad is targeted at the non-tech computer user.
If flash were included it would likely cause crashes on the iPad as well.
Non-tech-savvy users don’t understand that it’s the flash that’s crashing the iPad, but think it’s somehow Apple’s fault. It doesn’t “just work” for them and the “magic” is gone. Apple’s reputation for being rock-solid and just working diminishes (this is something they’ve been trying to cultivate for years)
Now by excluding flash, the blame gets shifted from Apple, to the website that doesn’t support a standard web interface. It’s not that Apple can’t make a tablet that won’t crash, but that Hulu’s site doesn’t work (but youTube’s does). This puts pressure on the flash-only sites to provide alternative, standards-compliant access (as it should be).
And while Apple may have an interest in protecting the ITMS/App Store revenue stream, I suspect that the vast majority of the revenue generated goes to cover the expense of all of the free content they distribute. Apple’s more interested in profiting off of hardware anyways– I’m pretty certain that quality control and maintaining their “just-works” image is their primary concern here.
Scott, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:30 am
Bullshit.
“Protecting content revenue” is a nonesense as long as there are free apps on the app store and non-flash content on the web.
Phil, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:31 am
As much as I hate Flash for its crappy performance I would at least like to have the possibility to use it on devices that clearly are capable hardware-wise. It does work quite well on Android phones with even less performance than Apple’s devices. Flash with Click2flash or Flashblock for iPhone and iPad would be great for those moments when you absolutely need to access a website with Flash content. I don’t care about Flash games and believe that most video sites will move to HTML5 in the near future, but there are other interactive content uses that are not as easily replaced with HTML5. Also, having been a die-hard Apple fan for over ten years, I’ve seen too much of the fan community backing Apple’s sometimes seemingly strange decisions without even thinking.
Oskar, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:48 am
Apple complains about Abode’s Flash (going on for many months now), and of course Adobe gets defensive and pushes back and tries to put the blame back on Apple.
I can see how this will lead to an even bigger rift between Apple and Adobe. It will get to the point where Apple will end up seeking a new suitor (Microsoft? Another 3rd party? Or Apple inhouse engineers come up with ) to provide an eventual replacement for Adobe products. This is not random speculation on my part. There is already a sad precedent. Same way that the Apple-Google rift has pushed Apple towards Microsoft’s search engine. Apple is on the verge of dropping Google as the default Search Engine, and partnering instead with Microsoft Bing. That is the precedent I am talking about. In the end, neither Apple or Adobe wins. But the Apple and Adobe users are the biggest losers in the end.
There are admitted Adobe reps posting here. Maybe ones from Apple too. Both companies need to rethink about publicly feeding the flames, and really just need to quietly come up with a solution.
Fred, on January 30th, 2010 at 6:19 am
Content providers who want/care to provide their content to the millions of iPhones, ipads etc are doing it right now. YouTube, BBC iPlayer, etc all provide flash-free versions of their content. Expect that decision to spread with the iPad.
Stu, on January 30th, 2010 at 6:50 am
Yah….I’am sure Adobe makes no money with the Data they collect via SharedObjects and Flash Cookies inside your Flash Player Folder.
Rick Deckerd, on January 30th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Even if Apple released a product that would only view text, play midi sounds rather than music, had 3 hours of battery life, but… had a nice big Apple on it and was all shiny and nice….YOU WOULD ALL BUY IT!
Apple could sell you people ANYTHING! (as long as it looks nice).
I may be “ryantheAPPLEguy” but im sure as hell not “ryan the idiot who buys into anything from a company that USED to make some really amazing products”!
Let’s try to keep in mind that Apple is a technology company and not a art dealer… apparently.
Right now they are way to focust on the aesthetic part of their products and this is holding them back. But more importantly it is holding back the world from advancing.
Ryantheappleguy, on January 30th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Hulu, youTube and Vimeo are all going HTML5 already. Flash Video is dead!!! Flash navigation has been dead for a long time. Any designer with an ounce of knowledge switched to DHTML long ago. That only leaves flash games and thats pretty mute if you have the app store.
See Flash Die! Die Flash! Die!
TRRosen, on January 30th, 2010 at 11:38 am
@Ryantheappleguy
…
Apple could sell you people ANYTHING! (as long as it looks nice).
Ever heard of free will?
You want it, some people like me do not want it or couldn’t care less.
Apple is free to say NO, which means they do not care if you buy it or not.
In a world where people pick side just to be accepted that is guts.
And you can bet that if Flash really succeed they will reconsider. That i’ll call courage, and for a capitalist venture it is a Big thing.
But more importantly it is holding back the world from advancing.
Why would care for a proprietary product that it cannot control if can use HTML 5 which is O.S.?
What Flash really adds, Apple main page does not have it, and it is the most gorgeous of them all.
Deocliciano Okssipin Vieira, on January 30th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Still waiting for someone to tell me why I should care about the lack of Flash support.
We’re all arguing theory, here. What is anyone ACTUALLY missing out on??
Conrad, on January 30th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Flash sucks. But if the iPad is really going to be a computer for the masses or something that even my mother can use to surf the web and write emails (instead of a Mac/PC), there is no way around Flash at the moment. There are simply too many websites that rely on Flash, as bad as it may be.
The video tag of HTML5 is nice and I’m happy that I can watch Youtube videos without having to turn up the volume on my Macbook because it sounds like a vacuum cleaner. But as long as the browser companies are still fighting about the video codec (e.g. Firefox doesn’t support h264 but uses Ogg Theora, for Safari it’s the other way around), HTML5 won’t replace Flash any time soon.
accolon, on January 30th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
His new name should be Ryanthedramaqueen.
Bubbahotep, on January 30th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
The main reason “everyone” is craving for Flash is, that most graphical advertising is done in Flash. Without Flash you will only see this little unconspicuous Google text ads. And that’s exactly where Adobe is making all it’s money, by selling CS4 to advertising companies.
MMNW, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
That cannot be the reason… the world is up in arms because they aren’t getting enough ads?
I don’t but it.
Conrad, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
@ryantheappleguy:
Wow! Where to begin.
First of all Apple didn’t release a product that was text-only with a 3 hour battery life. It’s a highly animated graphical interface that gets an average 10 hours of battery life, which is something to get excited about.
Second, you are being unreasonable… You would peg the entire experience of the device down to Flash support when the device has soooo much more to offer than just web browsing and enjoying Flash content.
Apple is a huge proponent of open standards based content… Flash is a proprietary technology controlled by a single company and Apple is demonstrating exactly what that means when and if that one company decides to not license that technology to another company… This is the result and a reality that could very well play itself out. This is what happens when people, such as yourself, demand the support of a proprietary format and proliferate its use.
If the format were open, Apple could make an effort at making it less buggy and crash prone. Even Mozilla has dropped default support for Flash on FireFox Mobile because of how buggy it was and its performance on mobile devices.
Lastly, I don’t see how not supporting Flash, will keep the rest of the world from advancing!? If the world really wanted to advance, they’d begin supporting more open standards, such as HTML5 and CSS3… But they can’t because companies like Microsoft refuse to fully support open standards and release only half-a**ed, incompatible attempts.
Michael, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
I agree with everyone who is siding against Flash. However… this reads like an ethics debate. Where is the “but what about _____!!!??!?!”? I really want to know how lack of Flash is putting people out.
Anyone?
Conrad, on January 30th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Sorry Steve, there were even missing plug-in error icons on the iPad Keynote. Contrary to the hype, without the Flash Player it’s not the best browsing experience… not even close.
Cole Wiebe, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Adobe can just pipe down. They repeatedly charge me vast sums of money to buy their developer tools to build in Flash. And those who build a site using Flash are always assuming that ‘everybody’ will forever and always have the Flash plug-in installed. Wrong. That is just an assumption perpetuated by Adobe. Flash is not an open standard.
I just wish Hulu would ‘un-flash’ their site already, and that this debate could simply die. Hulu seems to be the biggest thing that everyone always lists as a need. This is because people want TV for free over TV for 1.99 an episode (which makes sense). Hulu should hurry though before Apple simply begins streaming from iTunes and people shrug their shoulders and say..’ehh, 15 bucks isn’t too bad, I will just use that instead of Hulu and have no commercials either in the process’.
Brian, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
So you know what you do? You give users CHOICE.
I would choose to not have flash on mine, but I still think users should have the choice.
Also, this talk about content and revenue seems to be very true when you consider that Apple refuses to support blu-ray playback on Macs (PCs have had this for years) and is trying to push their iTunes HD movie downloads, of which the quality isn’t even comparable.
One of them Apple makes money off of, the other it doesn’t. It’s a no-brainer.
spence, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
If flash is so wonderful why did MS develop Silverlight? Youtube make it’s video available via HTML 5? Mozilla’s mobile Firefox drop Flash due to performance reasons? Apple is on the right track here and the larger market share they hold in the mobile device sector the sooner more sites such as Hulu will convert to a workable solution.
Just because something that used on 50% of the web content doesn’t make it good. It’s all that has been around for years. It’s time for new technology to emerge.
GS, on January 30th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
If adobe argues that they don’t allow flash because people wouldn’t buy movies from itunes or games from the app store… why do they allow Pandora and Last.fm and soon skype with 3g calls? Answer that.
Also, playing a flash game on a device with a virtual keyboard and no mouse might be a bit hard. With the keyboard covering up half the screen and no mouse for input…
ANSWERS!!!!
flunkycarter, on January 30th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
i agree Apple is protecting their content revenue. AND their hardware
and you know what, every other company does the same.
Adobe is denying comments by Apple and dozens of independent sites that their support for the Mac OS is out of date and buggy as heck, why? to protect their revenue. they don’t want folks to stop using Flash cause then they won’t keep buying Adobe software.
NBC and CBS apparently don’t want to play in any tv subscription game, why? to protect the ad revenue they get from Hulu and tv.com
studios want to withhold new movies from itunes, netflix etc, why? to protect revenue from DVDs and Blu-ray.
networks without shows from itunes until the DVD release, same gig.
and so on
protecting your revenue is just the way the game is played
Charli, on January 30th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Since Hulu seems to be what everyone is fighting over I would just like to point out that while that may matter to those of you in the states, for the rest of us (some 6 billion, 400 million people) we don’t have access to Hulu anyway… so we don’t really care. Apple is selling to a global market.
I still want an iPad.
Conrad, on January 31st, 2010 at 1:06 am
I still think that Flash (and also Air applications) have a role to play in the future of the internet, and I think the pronouncement of its demise is a little premature. And at the present time it certainly has a huge user base and an active and strong development community. Not something I’d see disappearing overnight.
Standards like HTML5 take years to be adopted, not just on the major portal sites, but around the web as a whole. Content providers will still see Flash as a viable solution for all kinds of things.
I’ve got to say, as a mac user for many years, I’m disappointed in some of the business strategies that apple are adopting. It seems in terms of providing me with freedom of choice, they’re actively seeking to limit my available experiences with their products. And at this point in time, the lack of support for Flash in a product like the ipad would basically constitute a pretty fair reason not to purchase it.
ziggy, on January 31st, 2010 at 1:49 am
I don’t see why people value Flash so much? As for games, do you think the games on websites are so much fun that I would not want to actually pay for a good quality one? Are you saying gamers – and casual gamers – are gonna throw out their console system because there are free flash games on the net? Probably not. So for the very few flash games that are noteworthy – FarmVille would be one of em – they could convert that an iPhone/iPad app and the problem is solved. In fact, with Push notifications, it will be a far better game than if it was stuck to Facebook.
The second thing I want to say is that I don’t believe Apple is blocking those contents on purpose. If Hulu REALLY wanted to let people watch TV shows for free, it could either: create an app or switch to HTML5. Hulu could easily do that. And Apple isn’t gonna say anything about it. This is just Adobe’s way of trying to muscle their way into another device. If Adobe was so confident that everyone NEEDS their technology, it wouldn’t worry so much that Apple hasn’t included it. They would just say that “no one will buy it because it doesn’t have Flash.” But has that been the case with the iPhone/iPod Touch? No. And I think it’s obvious the world is moving on from Flash. Don’t just believe anything you read. Tis why we get angry fans who ramble about stuff they don’t know what they’re talking about.
One last thing to leave you with. The App Store and iTunes Store combined don’t make too much money. If you think about iTunes Store’s 4 billions songs/year plus App Store’s 3 billion downloads in 18 months (at about $1/app, most of those downloads are free, mind you), Apple would only make about 6 billions dollars in revenue. Now that’s if none of the content providers and developers make any money from it. Assuming 30% for apps and 10% for songs, Apple is only making $1.3 billion. That’s not including expenses and what not. Compare that to their $15 billion+ quarter, this is miniscule. I think if Apple was in it for the money, they would much rather open Flash up to the iPhone + iPad so they can increase sales from those devices which make far more money than the 2 Stores can every make for them.
Geoff, on January 31st, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Bang Bros… Leander?
LOL!!!
Leigh McMullen, on January 31st, 2010 at 7:35 pm
IPad has no need for Adobe Flash. It craches is prone to bugs and opens too many back doors into teh ARM architecture. Objective-C is too beautiful to have Adobe pollute it.
Dr. Rory Lewis, on February 1st, 2010 at 2:48 am
IPad has no need for Adobe Flash. It crashes is prone to bugs and opens too many back doors into the ARM architecture. Objective-C is too beautiful to have Adobe pollute it.
Dr. Rory Lewis, on February 1st, 2010 at 2:48 am
“As for the Youtube is useless on the iPad… Well there’s an App for that!”
.. and at least on iPhone that app does not support a large portion of videos on Youtube.
Mikko, on February 1st, 2010 at 7:35 am
Flash Player 10.1 is buggy – as beta code that is not surprising. But previous builds are solid.
Main reason I would not buy an iPhone/iPad is the lack of Flash support. As a ColdFusion/Flash/Flex developer this would be crucial for my own use.
Darth Guybrush, on February 1st, 2010 at 8:00 am
I think your all a bunch of bed wetters. There is nothing wrong with flash, its just that HTML5 is something more familiar to all you of you web DESIGNERS, and now you can grab forum code and make a neat little animated pop up. I think HTML5 will be the down fall of the internet. Now that you people can animate things , its gona be like when flash first hit the web with all of the intros..Everyone is to busy trying to do what flash has done for years. HTML5 is just copying flash, i do beleive that it is cool the web is becoming a more interactive place. Most of you knocking flash are just going off of some crap you read in a forum. I think there is room for both. ITs all hype.. Flash can export to iphone or any other smart phones and the web. Why not write code once and deploy every where. Flash has done a lot for the internet and pushed everything up a few levels.
ludakris4, on February 1st, 2010 at 9:31 am
Well, if you want to activate the build-in ventilators, Flash surely is one of switches, as it is resource-hungry and (proven) unstable under OSX. That’s the main reason why Apple does not play the Flash card. They will not allow any critical or major app on the iPos without having control over the source. I can imagine that, given Adobe’s love for bloatware (look where the originally slender PDF-reader has ended), the source is far from optimized….
The Lying Dutchman, on February 1st, 2010 at 9:32 am
@ludakris4: untrue – flash for Mac OS X is terrible, have you even checked how much resources it takes? For a mobile device on battery Flash is a no-go until Adobe actually manages to code properly.
chaoticNeutral, on February 1st, 2010 at 10:38 am
The buggy flash and crashed machines, i’ve never seen. Im on a mac right now and been around flash for ten years. I have been a flash developer for the last 6. When i get done doing typing this im gona compile my project upload it and go ride my bike. I never have any issues with flash and mac. I’ve never seen a flash site crash my machine YET. Lying Dutchmen, there are all kind of apps out there sucking up CPU. It depends on the developer. Ive seen some jquery sites crash my browser more then flash.. BLOATware (ADOBE), maybe you should make a better product then. I use there products everyday, never had a problem. It doesnt matter, theres always a hater, no matter what it is.
ludakris4, on February 1st, 2010 at 3:18 pm
@chaoticNeutral
you use Flash lite on devices.. Not the full flash player.. Flash lite is optimized to run on mobile devices. If you OSX can’t take it maybe you should buy a new one. I work with flash on my mac every day.
ludakris4, on February 1st, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Flash is dead, long live HTML5
Ernesto Durand, on February 1st, 2010 at 5:07 pm
@ernesto Durand
Why would flash be dead?
ludakris4, on February 1st, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Figure the average IPad owner spends $30 per month on content. That’s pretty easy to do when books and movies cost $15 each.
That’s $360 per year. $720 over two years.
That’s as much as, or more than, the cost of the device.
All that money goes through Apple.
Does Apple want the money from media? You better believe it.
Martin Green, on February 1st, 2010 at 8:47 pm
if you program as3 crappy, it will run crappy and crash systems. If you have standards and are not on crack you can make flash run efficient. Like you never went to a site where javascript crap out your browser?
lame, on February 2nd, 2010 at 12:19 am
Sorry for my dumb views .Indeed flash is crappy.Issue resolved.Back to ride on my bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ludakris 4, on February 2nd, 2010 at 2:01 am
“It’s because Apple is protecting revenue streams derived from content like movies and games. If users could watch free TV shows on Hulu, they wouldn’t buy them through iTunes.”
I dont 100% buy it, Coz HTML5 will cover video on html5 capable browsers soon…
Casper, on February 2nd, 2010 at 3:33 am
i gotta agree with the rest about Flash being a piece of crap. it’s been pretty much the same piece of garbage code since Adobe bought out macromedia, and that was what 5 or 6 years ago?
iFanboy, on February 2nd, 2010 at 7:00 am
i~THE ORIGINAL~Fanboy can’t say I agree because I don’t know enough about it. Apple and Adobe have conflicting views: the first says it’s about bugs; the latter claims it’s about revenues ~ HAS Apple got greedy?
iFanboy, on February 2nd, 2010 at 8:08 am
@ludakris 4, your an idiot.
Its so funny all you wankers are on this band wagon. Write stupid code you crash browsers , most of you don’t even know what your talking about, your just jumping in to feel cool about you stupid life in the food service industry.
I just worked for 2 years with abunch of JS/html guys, i saw some the crappiest codeing conventions ive ever seen.. The company hires peoeple to fix code and come up with hacks to work in browsers , that sounds like a great thing. FLASH works no hacks on devices, TVs , home automation and much more.. Your all jealous haters that cant code your way out of a for loop..HTML5 is like putting lip stick on a dead bloated pig. Flash works you ‘re all broke ass haters. I doubt that your any smarter then the Adobe engineers that make software.
@iFanboy you got it right Apple is greedy.. People are so blinded by that dope ass turtle neck, they dont see what he is doing. i have a mac and iphone, i write AS3 apps on the mac book pro with no problem what so ever.
ludakris4, on February 2nd, 2010 at 8:53 am
@Martin Green. Your math is way wrong. why? Because you act like Apple gets all that money
they don’t. they get 30% of whatever the content creator decides to price their stuff (within particular boundaries).
I have 100 apps for my iphone, mostly games that I downloaded at some point, but guess what I spent on those apps in total. $5. that’s right almost all of those apps are free.
almost all my videos were free. tv shows were bought free or on sale, movies on sale also. and a fair chunk of my music (I’d wager between 80-85%) was off my cds or also itunes freebies (starbucks of the day, holiday promos etc)
my ebooks at the moment are off Amazon, timed files from the library or digital comics bought from the publisher
Apple is NOT getting rich off this stuff. and probably won’t
As for Adobe, they are just as much protecting their cash (via sales of the software) as everyone else. they even put an iphone port software into CS5 because they want all those old flash groupies to still use flash and then convert it into iphone games rather than ditch CS and do it the ‘old fashioned’ way.
Charli, on February 2nd, 2010 at 11:25 am
iFanboy you have no clue.
Adobe bought flash AS2 in 2005. 2006 they released AS3. Which is much different and just proves most to the comments here are basic script kiddie comments.
lame, on February 2nd, 2010 at 2:29 pm
wrong … there is no Flash because Adobe is lazy and Flash is obsolete
Kevin Cassidy, on February 2nd, 2010 at 5:18 pm
As I said in Jan 09
http://jasonkneen.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-we-wont-see-flash-on-iphone-anytime.html
Jason, on February 3rd, 2010 at 6:11 am
It seems like an Adobe-Apple war here with the end users hurting because of the missing Flash support on the iPad. It’s just too important to be missed on this new device knowing that Flash is the most popular video formats on the web. And those images prove this. Have a look here to read more about this: http://www.thehdstandard.com/general-discussion/no-flash-support-on-apples-tablet/
Catalin
Professional Streaming Consultant
Catalin, on February 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 am
AT LEAST APPLE SHOULD GIVE ME A CHOICE WHEATHER TO INSTALL FLASH OR NOT. I’M USER I KNOW IT MIGHT BE BUGGY, I KNOW IT MIGHT DRAIN MY BATTERY, BUT I STILL WANT IT.
There’s no excuse for that Apple should introduce in settings app new submenu called plugins, where you could easily manage all your plugins whether safari, skype or other app…
AND DON’T TELL ME THAT IT IS ABOUT USER EXPERIENCE. It’s slight addon and would still keep iPhoneOS philosophy of simplicity.
SO IT’S ALL ABOUT REVENUE!!!
Kai, on February 4th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Send apple a message, don’t buy the iPad until it has flash.
Rich, on February 6th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
goodrichard, give me a break fanboy! Flash is not crappy software the iPad is crappy hardware. My $250 Aspire One netbook is just as capable and far more useful than that glorified giant iPhione. I run flash on my netbook, my laptop and my cell phone without a hitch. You apple fanboys never cease to amaze me. You are like lemmings in the cult of Steve. If Woz was running the show I guarantee you the iPad would be running OS X and certainly would have flash.
Tammy Knauer, on February 9th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I’m supportive of this decision by Apple. No OS should support a plugin capable of the bloated, obtrusive, and counter intuitive nature of Flash. I would like to see Adobe learn from this and embrace the future of HTML 5 with a more universal UI standards approach.
casey, on February 15th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Flash is not going to die because Apple does not want it on the iPad or iPhone. Flash is widely used for so many things, and you cannot expect everyone to change their processes just because Apple is not interested in making this work. I wish there was a flash player for the phone and ipad.
Colin, on February 16th, 2010 at 11:38 am
For me it’s that simple: no Flash? That’s fine, but I am not going to buy an iPhone or an iPad. It works both ways. It’s like surfing the web using a browser that can’t play Flash content. The whole discussion around Flash is still there because the majority of web designers/developers can’t build professional Flash applications. They can, at most, hack their way through some silly timeline animations ending up with heavy buggy stuff. If you are a pro, Flash will fly! No Flash is a joke!
Will, on February 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
“I don’t think Adobe is helping their case. Perhaps if they made a less buggy, less crash prone, generally better piece of software, they might be included. As it stands, Flash is just crappy software. Apple is making the right decision here.”
Can you please tell me what Flash game you played that crashed? I am not saying that flash should be allowed but i dont believe i ever played a flash game or watched flash content and cause any issues. I really would like to see the source of your information, and where you got your data from or even reviewed the programming of flash….. I doubt you can prove or disprove that the software is crappy so i dont think you should reply without accurate data or spec’s. If you played a flash game and it was laggy it was mostly something to do with the server(s) of the game not the software itself.
REVENUE is the reason like in the article….. Apple Approves and Denies software… Do you think Hulu would not have made an APP if they knew it would be approved? They would have been building it that day!
Please make sure to have your facts straight
Cory, on February 19th, 2010 at 8:58 am
It is true for one thing, Adobe Flash really suck the power and resources out of you PC.
gere, on February 19th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/02/20/an-adobe-flash-developer-on-why-the-ipad-cant-use-flash/
Bill Gates, on February 21st, 2010 at 11:31 pm
“It is true for one thing, Adobe Flash really suck the power and resources out of you PC.”
This is truely a funny statement… If you have an iphone then you know that the push feature is much worse than flash could ever be. CONTENT Revenue is the culprit…. And if you dont see it your stupid!
“http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/02/20/an-adobe-flash-developer-on-why-the-ipad-cant-use-flash/”
This is even funnier. Just because you created the “hello world” program, or a pong flash game does not make you a developer. I could waste my money on a SDK Developer pack but it doesnt mean i am a developer. Hover, mouse-over, release, etc… can all be implemented easily. A reader suggested the one click and double click to act as hover or mouseover effects, which is exactly correct. Once you are locked onto the flash app it will override the scroll feature. This is how normal computers react with the jog-wheel on a standard mouse. PLUS…. I hope Apple screws up yet again and needs Microsoft to bail them out. I see it coming with this one. IPAD Paper weights on EBay for $9.99
LOL
Cory, on February 23rd, 2010 at 12:35 pm
I think that this entire conversation is really quite funny because I bet that every one of the people that are supporting Apple were the same people that were upset at Microsoft for making their own rules with IE. How many web sites had to be redesigned just for IE6 and IE7 so that the pages looked correct? Everyone was upset because Microsoft was trying to force people to code specifically for their browser. To this day I still come across sites that will not work in FF. So now we have Apple saying that you have to again change your site because they are not going to support Flash and all of the sudden it is OK? Anyone see the irony here?
Jim, on February 25th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Why on Earth would anyone want a device to where you have to sit there and constantly Pay to use it?
The internet as it stands is still USEFUL without flash, but not entertaining or fun.
Also, “apple trying to protect their revenue streams” no. It is more like apple is trying to steal business from anyone participating in e-commerce.
Apple is fundamentally taking away many of the “free” things that exist on the internet if this device is sucessful. Apple needs to stop being so controlling, first super-protective DRM, and now this. Rather you think DRM is a great technology or not, apple made it so it only works with apple products. You cannot buy music on itunes just to buy music on itunes. you can only play it on an apple product. Oh and if you want to cut YOUR OWN MUSIC as a ringtone, you have to pay money each time to cut your own music as a ringtone. This is why I do not buy apple products; they are too restrictive.
chris, on March 5th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
The irony is that 99% of these heavy flash experience are created by creative people who are life long mac evangelists on macs. You would think they would take that into consideration before they made their next “reel” piece which only 10% of people can see without crashing their systems.
There is also and arrow/indian issue. Most issue with flash sites/games are not caused by the player rather the way it was coded. There are few actual flash “programmer” who understand memory usage and clean up, most are just graphics people who can make it work.
mark, on March 8th, 2010 at 10:09 am
————————————————————-
IMHO maybe the most important issue about Flash on iPad is this:
Flash assumes a mouse, and much of what goes on in Flash games (and user interfaces) involves moving and ‘hovering’ the mouse in addition to clicking it. Touchscreens do NOT have the equivalent of a ‘hover’ state for the input device (your finger). There is no ‘rollover’ event either. You touch it, you got it.
Each touch of a touch screen is (generally) going to be treated as some sort of ‘click’ or ’select’ event. This is a very important concept, as I have learned developing touch screen kiosks for visitor centers.
New games, designed from the bottom up, for touch devices are going to blow us away and more than make up for losing many of the current ones.
There are other reasons to dislike Flash, which I could expound on since I have programmed in it for years, but don’t forget that many or most of these so-called ‘must have’ Flash games would not work (as-is) on a touch device anyway. That doesn’t mean Flash could not work for development of *new* games, I mostly refer to existing games and menu interfaces and such.
Just wanted to throw out this as an alternative to the Adobe-bashing or Apple Monopoly theories one sees so often.
————————————————————-
Ross, on March 8th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Its funny that all these apple fans say flash is “buggy”. It might be buggy on mac but I’ve not had it crash in years on my XP setup or my linux box. The implementation of flash on OSX is whats buggy. Perhaps is Apple were more open to flash they would get updated versions more often.
Anyway as an aside, I was really interested in the iPad until i head about this issue now I think Ill wait for the HP Slate instead. Not only will it handle foals but it will also run a lot of my steam games.
Dale, on March 12th, 2010 at 10:07 am
“No loss to me, really. Flash pretty much sucks. I suspect it will die, if slowly, as devices stop supporting it.”
Tyler you are seriously living a dreamworld if you think that flash is going away any time soon. Flashes share of content delivery is going up year on year, have none of you guys ever heard of you tube?
Dale, on March 12th, 2010 at 10:10 am
I was pretty much dead set on getting an iPad, but, I think after reading this guys blog I’ve decided not to get one. For one I still like the freedom of the internet and without the flash it sucks. I use the internet on my smartphone and I already know whats that like. There’s still to many site using flash and because of I hardly use it on my phone internet. I was even considering the apple laptop for my next computer, but now that its clear where Jobs is going with his products, I’m going to stick with Mirosoft.
Thanks for listening.
G., on March 14th, 2010 at 2:01 pm