The Real Reasons iPhone/iPad Won’t Ever Support Flash – They Can’t

Lonnie Lazar ()

UPDATE: The gentleman in the video above is Daniel Eran Dilger, author of the Roughly Drafted blog referenced in the post below. I regret any confusion my failure to identify him may have caused. – Lonnie Lazar

Don’t just take Steve Jobs’ word for it. Full-time Flash developer Morgan Adams articulates good reasons why Flash should never come to Apple’s iPad and anyone interested in the Apple-Adobe conflict on the matter of Flash would do well to pay attention to his commentary.

Adams, an interactive content developer, wrote to the Roughly Drafted blog to explain in terms more measured than those used by Mr. Jobs with editors of the Wall Street Journal last week why Flash won’t ever work well on any mobile touchscreen platform:

It’s not because of slow mobile performance, battery drain or crashes. It’s because of the hover or mouseover problem.

Many (if not most) current Flash games, menus, and even video players require a visible mouse pointer. They are coded to rely on the difference between hovering over something (mouseover) vs. actually clicking. This distinction is not rare. It’s pervasive, fundamental to interactive design, and vital to the basic use of Flash content. New Flash content designed just for touchscreens can be done, but people want existing Flash sites to work. All of them—not just some here and there—and in a usable manner. That’s impossible no matter what.

Adams goes on to detail several fundamental incompatibilities between touchscreen operating systems and Flash content on the web, showing why current Flash content can never work well on a touchscreen platform.

DON'T MISS
Coming Soon From Adobe: Flash Video To Your iPad

In addition, workable alternatives exist for delivering the video content many wrongly believe is unobtainable without Flash, according to Adams:

imagine my embarrassment as a Flash developer when my own animated site wouldn’t work on the newfangled iPhone! So I sat down and made new animations using WebKit’s CSS animation abilities. Now desktop users still see Flash at adamsi.com, but iPhone users see animations too. It can be done.

42 comments »

About the author

Lonnie Lazar

Lonnie Lazar is a writer-musician-web designer-attorney. He writes about Apple for Cult of Mac and Mac|Life, and about VoIP and telecommunications for Voxilla. Follow Lonnie on Twitter @LonnieLazar, join the Cult of Mac on Facebook, and find Lonnie's photos on Flickr.

(sorry, you need Javascript to see this e-mail address)| Read more posts by .

Posted in Apple, iPhone, Media, Opinions, Top stories |

  • Peter Hansen

    Flash needs to die. HTML 5 is the future. Get over it.

  • http://www.daedana.co.uk/ daedana

    This video was a real mind opener. I have known that Apple does not support flash on it’s devices, but real reasons behind this have been blurry to me. This video contained a lot of interesting facts and I just might review this on by blog, great great great and many thanks.

  • caio

    “Flash needs to die. HTML 5 is the future”

    the new assplehole mantra..

    hey Steve, got milk? my milk.

  • http://www.memeticmedia.com colin goldberg
  • http://www.memeticmedia.com colin goldberg

    nix that last post – site is down…. hmm maybe apple bought him out??

  • mlahero

    Hmmm that was an interesting article. The crazy thing is that although Flash is not supported on the iPhone or iPad the latest version of Adobe Flash, CS5, might eventually be the largest source of iPhone/iPad app developers as Flash CS5 allows developers to create iPhone apps using the Flash IDE.

  • dave

    This guy is clueless.
    Saying that Flash apps are not good for multitouch devices is like saying that Flash is dead, the future of computing is in multitouch interfaces, at leasto on any mobile device.
    So Flash developers just need to adapt their designs to our phingers.

    All the other arguments are bla…bla..bla…bullshit.

    Lazy Flash developer…instead of recording pointless video, go to learn how to deal with multitouch devices.

  • Tanuki

    From my iPod touch: “The video format is not supported.

    There’s no reason why non-interactive Flash content shouldn’t work on touch platforms.

  • http://www.sebringcreative.com jsebring

    Lonnie is a smart guy. I actually thought much the opposite prior to seeing the video but Lonnie presents his facts in such a logical manner, you find it hard to disagree. In practice, I don’t like flash as a development platform and do lots of UI in javascript but still thought apple should include flash. Good points, Lonnie.

  • http://designoasis.net Carlitos

    Interesting to have a look at the guys site and see that even when you click to view the NON-Flash version……still has flash content? Besides the design of the site……..kinda looks like something a child would do……..maybe a fake site perhaps? Apple and good old Steve Jobs, who up until now we loved need to remember that all us Designers and I guess many Developers use CS4……..and were not entirely stupid. No Flash on iPhone or iPad is strictly about money and control of content. Period. Why is Flash so popular……………because it’s AWESOME!!!!!! Viva ADOBE, Viva AIR, Viva FLASH. BOOM!!!

  • http://designoasis.net Carlitos

    How much did Apple pay this guy to make this claim?

  • http://www.metrokids.ca Conrad

    Since most of you clearly don’t read RoughlyDrafted…

    The guy is the video is Daniel Eran Dilger. The quoted comments were but a Flash developer who wrote in to Daniel’s blog.

    Apple doesn’t pay him, but he actually makes a lot of sense if you listen instead of just imposing your biases.

    Flash is a mediocre development platform at best. As a designer I always die a little inside when someone requests Flash content.

    @ dave:
    You, sir, are clueless. If Flash IS not good for multitouch devices all the thousands of existing Flash apps never will be – EVER. Anything the currently exists will need to be re-written. Which was discussed in the blog post. So, once again, instead of just talking about this which you know not – why not learn a little first, then speak with authority?

    @ Carlitos:
    RoughlyDrafted has no Flash. And Dan doesn’t use Flash, he uses YouTube which has h.264 video for those without Flash. And the layout is a WordPress theme. NOT ALL designers use CS4, and even if we do, that does not mean we use Flash. I hate Flash. Love PS, and DW, but Flash is the Debbil.

    Anyway, most of you should know what you’re talking about BEFORE you start talking, not after.

  • Steven

    I like this video a lot and it explains a lot. I like flash and think this childish crap between Steve and Adobe is just that..childish. The one thing he quotes that rubs me wrong is “Flash is supported on the upcoming windows mobile 7″. Thats not true and it’s known its not supported. I hope this guy made this video before Microsoft announced no flash for mobile 7, else he is making false claims to help Adobe.

  • http://www.metrokids.ca Conrad

    WiMo7 WILL support Flash, just not at launch. They are working with Adobe to bring it to WiMo7.

  • Alfred

    The facts which escape many:

    Even if Apple magically put Flash on the iPhone OS TOMORROW:

    1. Games and other interfaces requiring mouseovers would function poorly or not at all (i.e. most Flash content on the web).
    2. Games requiring use of the keyboard arrow keys would not work with the current iPhone OS on-screen keyboard.
    3. The Flash run-time would reduce battery-life.
    4. Flash may dramatically increase the number of Safari crashes.
    5. Flash would introduce new security vulnerabilities.

    Thus, even if Flash arrived TOMORROW, much of the Flash content you see on the web would not work or not work properly. Lots of it (games, banners, menus, and other interfaces) would have to be re-written or modified for touch-screen devices by the developers — and that cannot be done yet, as the authoring software, “CS5″ won’t be released by Adobe until later this year.

    So, again, even if Apple put Flash on iPhone OS tomorrow, it wouldn’t be much use — and certainly not the experience you get on the desktop. The best Apple could do is put Flash 10.1 on iPhone OS — but this has not been released yet, never mind proven to be reliable, secure, or popular. Further, until Adobe releases the CS5 authoring software, developers cannot make the modifications to their content.

    For the time being, Apple is making a sound decision. However, if (1) most Flash developers do modify their content for touch-screen devices, (2) and for accelerometers, (3) and Adobe improves the battery performance in 10.1, (4) makes it much more stable than previous releases, and (5) proves that it can be kept secure… then if all that happens, there may be a reasonable case to ask Apple to allow Flash 10.1 on the iPhone OS.

    However, HTML5, CSS3-animations, and SVG are all open standards, for which any company can write authoring tools — including Adobe. Once the specs for HTML5/CSS3-animations/SVG standards truly mature, there will be little reason for proprietary (and expensive) technologies such as Flash or Silverlight to exist.

  • http://lugaresdemexico.com Ernesto Durand

    My internet experience is 90% flash free and is great!!!!
    I don’t need flash anymore.

  • Gergith

    Simple mouseover solution…

    Fingerheld down=mouseover.
    remove finger=click

    who knows how to NOT click, perhaps either drag your held down finger away, or press down with a second finger?

    Regardless, The mouseover problem can be solved at the os/browser level.

    I really hate flash! I just can’t help but think that this was a perfect internet device potentially… Now it will have to wait a little while for it to work well as a browser across more sites past a smaller number of the sites. Namely, game developers have to adopt HTML5 FAST :D

    ALL the sites like addictinggames.com, freearcade.com etc.. will have to start making html5 games for this to work :) It will happen. Just hopefully sooner then later

    On the OTHER hand…. Indirect ad blocking? :D

  • Jill

    Huh? Any iPhone/iPad app can have FLASH in it.
    You can’t “force” a developer to put FLASH in his apps.
    If Safari doesn’t want FLASH, it doesn’t have to support it.

    Here’s just a small, partial list of some iPhone/iPad apps that *DO* have FLASH:

    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/

  • Yvonne

    Will not having FLASH hurt the iphone and ipad?

    If having the WORST carrier ever (AT&T) tied to the iphone… didn’t hurt it. Nothing will.

  • http://adamsi.com Morgan Adams

    Thanks for reading my article at Roughly Drafted. (And thanks to Daniel at Roughly Drafted for a whole range of interesting articles and videos.)

    Commenters make some good points:

    1. As I said in my article, Flash developers COULD support touchscreens. (I know I will!) But if you want a good iPad experience, then that assumes that all (or even most) of the Flash content out there will suddenly be re-programmed. Thousands of games, thousands of navigation bars, and hundreds of video services. Some WILL be updated eventually (but maybe not with Flash at all). Many won’t ever be (which means some Flash games and video sites may eventually just fade away). Re-doing all/most of the Web’s Flash content would involve thousands of programmers and designers and managers all getting together and doing work they may not even see the need for. A speedy worldwide shift on that scale is just not going to happen.

    So the reality is, Apple and Adobe, even working together, couldn’t make current Flash sites work in a way that pleases people. Future sites, maybe (leaving aside battery and performance concerns). But people want Flash now. That’s what’s impossible to do well with a touchscreen alone.

    You may notice that touchscreen devices that claim to do Flash do it badly. Performance is only part of the reason! Some people might wish that the iPad did Flash badly rather than not at all, but in the end, most would hate the resulting experience.

    2. And you’re right: my own site’s “Non-Flash” option for people who do NOT have iPhones is a token at best. (The non-Flash version served automatically to iPhone/iPod users is better.) It’s nothing more than the one most important page from my site, with some non-Flash links to a couple of others. I didn’t even bother to hide the Flash that’s part of the site design—people who don’t have Flash simply won’t see it. This version is there to serve a very small group of people, such as the vision-impaired with screen readers, and has never been fleshed out the way it ideally would be. In fact, my entire site is a somewhat neglected descendent of the site I built over 10 years ago when I started my freelance business. My time is spent on my clients’ sites instead of my own. They pay better! :-)

    And since I’ve made the case for why Flash on the iPad is a bad idea, I’ll also state that Flash is NOT dead. Even if it doesn’t evolve, people (like me) will keep making interactive Flash games and other elements for a long time. Because it’s still widely installed on the desktop, with a huge developer base, and Flash’s rapid-development tools cannot be beaten. Nothing comes close to the power and flexibility (albeit buggy) of the Flash IDE (and Flex), and it can deliver to touchscreens if you wish. With CS5, Flash will even be able to make iPhone apps. (I have be doubts about the performance, but it will have its uses.) HTML5 and SVG and Webkit CSS animation are great, but if I want to make some interactive, smoothly-animating Web application, I can do so (and then perform future maintenance) MANY times faster with Flash than in any other way. Which means my clients can actually afford to have me do it.

    I’d love to see rapid-development engines emerge for HTML5, SVG, etc. that rival Flash, but we’re not there yet. In fact, I’d love to see Flash itself (the toolset, not the player) evolve to generate standards-based content instead of SWFs. Eventually even equalling what Flash can do today. That wouldn’t surprise me at all. Someday!

    OK—I’m off to make some Flash banner ads now. (Just kidding!)

  • Kallt

    I don’t believe that this would be the real reason behind this. Of course, the iPad would never be able to support Flash with all features, because its features extent beyond what an iPad could make possible. Even Javascript has a lot of functions that an iPad could never use (for example, a hover-based navigation).

    I want basic Flash support to view those websites demanding Flash. I know that HTML 5 will eventually eradicate Flash on most websites in time. But as long as this is not happening, iPad users can’t view a lot of them. I hate Flash to be honest, but that is no reason why you should deny your users this technology when it’s still an integral part of the web, whether you like it or not.

    HTML 5 won’t take all over as soon as it is fully available. It’s a misconception to expect Flash disappearing quickly. It will be there on much websites for the next ten years at least, and in that time, the iPad won’t have access to those websites.

  • nabil2199

    Then why not just let adobe try? this is BS.
    the only reason is the app store nothing else

  • John

    Not including Flash support makes the iPhone and iPad less useful. Yes, Flash sucks, but there’s a ton of Flash content that’s not banner ads that people still want/need to be able to access. Some companies have developed full Flash/Flex/Air apps, none of which works on these platforms.

    Yes, HTML5 *may* be able to replace most/all of Flash’s functionality in the future, you know, when HTML5 is actually *finished*. Until then, Flash should be included. Period.

    I’m still going with “Apple doesn’t want people playing Flash games because they’ll buy less from the App Store” as the the primary driver behind this. The as-yet unfinished HTML5, battery drain, and OS-fixable cursor issues are all smokescreens.

  • mlahero

    Until a HTML5/CSS3/jQuery site is released that is equal to a FWA style Flash website then the whole “HTML 5 can do it” argument is utter rubbish. There are some great new HTML5/CSS3/jQuery bits and pieces but they all still do what Flash could do 8 years ago i.e. Nice image transitions and rolling image tickertapes.

  • http://www.hoggworks.com/ Brian Hogg

    The mouse-over issue is one that affects HTML, too, unless we’re expected to believe that nobody makes drop-down menus anymore.

    To those of you letting forth with the standard “flash sux html5 forever!” if we followed your advice and rebuilt our Flash games as HTML5 games, the mouseover issues would still make them not work on the iPhone/iPad.

    There’s a larger issue where we’ve got over a decade of content built-up around a keyboard-and-mouse input paradigm, and shifting to a finger-touch paradigm is going to leave a lot of content behind, whether Flash or HTML.

    To the person who said that there’s Flash in the iPhone already, it’s not true. Flash CS5 will let you export Flash content to an iPhone app, but when you do that it ceases being Flash, because it’s a full app.

  • mlahero

    It’s a business decision disguised as a technical issue. Jobs Reality Distortion Field working at full effect.

  • http://www.laligad.com German Hernandez

    Morgan Adams is just a vocal mediocre programmer. It’s just non-sense. If’ve been doing touch screen stuff since flash 4.0. The real reason, at least for me, isz politics. If the iPad has flash support I will be making free games over the internet and not be on the hands of their approval process. Suddenly all the applications on the app store could be easlily replicated over the web with flash.

  • http://www.laligad.com German Hernandez

    On other note.. iPad won’t get porn support cause you have to have both hands on the device and none on your d***

  • John

    @German Hernandez,

    That’s why several vendors have announced iPad stands and docks :)

  • http://www.laligad.com German Hernandez

    @John

    jajajaj

  • Pete

    This is just not true I am a programmer and truly can’t see a reason to not be able to port flash to touch screen phones.

    Hover = Holding Your Mouse down
    Click = Pressing and releasing

    This is so obviously not the reason remember it’s on android anyway, although multitouch improvements could be made to apps single touch is simple to do. I suspect the true reason is apple don’t want the competition of free flash apps on the iPhone.

  • AZCoyote

    Reality check folks.
    Enabling Flash on iPhone or iPad would nullify the monopoly of the Apple App Store and iTunes. Video content that Apple makes you PAY for suddenly become free.

    This decision by Apple is not technical. It is business model driven.

  • John

    @AZCoyote,

    Duh…

  • http://www.weatheredwatcher.com David Duggins

    @Jill Did you even read the article that you posted? It’s talking about Action Script. Essentially, you program iPhone apps using the familiar Flash interface and ActionScript Language. Then, Flash will compile the program into an iPhone app. It is not Flash. It is not a swf file. It is a binary that will run on the iPhone, just as if I wrote something in Objective C and compiled it with Xcode to run on the iPhone. In fact, Adobe repeats over and over again that there will not be a flash player for iPhone, that no swf videos will be able to play on the applications, that this is not flash.

    @AZCoyote If it was all about money, Apple would be stupid to not allow flash and flash developers access to the app store. You can watch YouTube for free (there is an app for that) I have at least three apps that let my daughter watch cartoons for free. (Yes, there are apps for that as well) You say that allowing flash would allow for free content? Since when did Adobe have an exclusive license to distribute TV shows and Movies for free on the internet? Allowing Flash would not undercut Apples profits or their business model at all. It would increase their profits.

    @All of you who think it about money and competition:

    Adobe has three applications in the App Store. Photoshop.com, Acrobat Reader and Adobe Lifecycle…all three are free an two of them support Adobe paid products (photoshop.com and Life Cycle)

    If Apple was really “out to get” adobe, denying them there three apps would have been so easy and would have cost Apple nothing. (They have denied Google apps before with impunity….)

    The reality is that Apple is known for wanting to control the entire consumer experience. If the Flash experience is bad the average consumer is not going to blame Adobe, they will blame Apple.

  • http://www.kazzmedia.com Kevin Cassidy

    not that i’m one to defend flash, but what about all the non-flash rollover effects?
    this guy is a professional flash developer and he thinks this is why apple won’t support flash?
    read david duggins comments if you want the real deal

  • Guy

    Man, most of you are a bunch of whiny bitches! A knowledgeable, experienced and educated web developer dispels some myths and states a lot of facts and explains the situation in detail….next thing you know, there are a bunch of other developers and guys in the know on here saying that what the post says is true. They proceed to back up the info and make their own valid points.

    Then all you crying little school girls still come in here crying that there is no Flash on the iPad. Well then don’t fucking buy one if it’s that big of deal. Go away, you are too stupid to deserve one anyway. Seems a lot of experts are saying that there are many different options that work better or just plain work in the first place that look like Flash, but are not. Oh but you whine, it’s not Flash, so what. Shut the hell up already.

    I’m amazed at how personal you all take this…it’s just a “thingy” that makes a few web sites look “cool”, who the fuck cares?!?!?!

    You cry babies need to get your facts straight first….Above mentioned, some people have been handing you the facts on a silver platter and yet you still don’t get it and act like you are 5 years old.

    Figure it out you fucking losers!!!

  • Arlo

    This article is pretty misleading. Adobe has said before and currently posts on their website when you try to get flash that it is not offered because of Apple’s restrictions. There is no lack of hover equivalent on the iphone because there are apps that take advantage of dragging your finger over something without clicking, in other words, hovering.
    I guess there is the point that Adobe wanted more access to the core OS in order to do the affects they wanted, but that’s not the same thing as saying it’s technically impossible. Flash is designed to need core control at a level Apple is not comfortable with. Saying there is no hover type equivalent is false though, as I have apps where I put my finger down and hold it for the hover affect, and iphone is able to distinguish between rolling your finger over something versus clicking.

  • Arlo

    I have to add restricting flash does make apple mobile products less useful. I end up having to buy things from there store to get equivalents of what I have already paid for on the web. On example is marvel comics. I pay a monthly subscription to access on the web, and apple has no problem me accessing from a mac computer, but if I want to view on a phone or pad, I have to pay extra from the app store $2 for each book I want to read, and they have all the same features in some non flash method to resell me what I already bought somehow.

    I would rather have them let me choose, like I can on my computer by using a flash blocker to turn off flash when I don’t want it.

  • adam

    Flash video is the best compression vs. quality you can get. If you disagree then you don’t know what you’re talking about. .FLV is awesome quality for very little file size. I’m talking being able to reduce a 12GB uncompressed AVI into a 30MB video with, for all intents and purposes, zero loss of quality. I don’t know how it works, but it does, and I’m sorely disappointed that Apple have not made this work on their mobile products, considering Apple products are (or at least were) mainly used by media pros.

    I don’t give a hoot about about flash websites, but flash video should be included as it really is the best.

    Oddly, videos I’ve uploaded to youtube in .FLV format will not play through the youtube app on the iphone but they WILL on the ipad.

  • you=idiotsheep

    First off, I’m not a fan of the trendy iphone, ipod, ipad or any of apples limited overpriced crap that is marketed to morons who don’t know better.
    Seriously, if you own apple products. it’s because you didn’t bother to learn anything before making a purchase. I know, you just saw a pretty commercial and ran out to buy your cheep limited wanna be tec toy.

    For MP3 players
    My $40 sansa does more than my friends $200 ipod ever did. The car accoseries only cost me $15 as apposed to the ipods $70 and has never let me down. Cant say the same for ipod. My friends ipods (both 4gen and 5gen) are junk and is always freezing or having to be reset.

    Secondly, Ipad is just a larger itouch.
    Ever heard of the Neofonie wepad. of course not, because you are an idiot. You can’t help it, you just are. it runs Flash, has USB ports, an inbuilt card reader and expandable memory. Additionally it allows complete multitasking and has a web cam. and costs less. Beat that lame apple fanboys.

    Anyways, yawn. This is probably the most you apple tards have ever learned about anything.
    But I’m sure the next time you see a commercial some the apple products, you’ll rush out and blow your money.

    Seriously, If your getting mad at what I said, it’s because you know I’m right and you just can’t cope with it. Go buy an itouch and pretend to feel better.

  • http://moyogo.com/ Frank de Groot

    What you=idiotsheep said.

  • http://www.theotakukid.com shockerz

    Thanks for the info! Now I know why flash is not used in iphone or ipad or itouch.