Cult of Mac: a blog about the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone - and the people who love them

91 comments

in the spirit of first comments, i got first comment!

so basically apple says tiger uses need to pay the full price, but apparently the upgrade media works on tiger intels? interesting! surely apple wouldnt make a mistake like that…? it sounds similar to the workaround whereby you could use vista upgrade media (cheaper) to clean install on ur pc! people said surely microsoft wouldnt make a mistake like that, but then again, they *did* release vista which many thought was a bigger mistake (i never found it horrendously bad, mind you)

anyway looking forward to getting my hands on snow leopard for my mac mini c2d and macbook cd

marty, on August 27th, 2009 at 1:20 am

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Snow Leopard upgrade działa także z Tigerem. Wiadomości ze świata Apple Mac | MacKozer, on August 27th, 2009 at 1:51 am

You do understand that it’s not only formal ethics, it’s the law. $30 buys you the right to install it if you have Leopard already.

OS X never had copy protection after all. The same applied for Tiger or Leopard, for example, you can buy one copy of Leopard and install it in 15 machine (or as many as you like). The fact that there are no software mechanisms to prevent you from doing this doesn’t also make it legal.

Dennis, on August 27th, 2009 at 4:30 am

Pete, it might be possible, technically, but in legal terms you are not allowed to do this!

And it ain’t a matter of, like you wrote: “living by the spirit of Apple’s marketing”. No sir. Upgrading via this path is just not right. I personally won’t “hate” others for doing so, but it is stealing profit from Apple and its shareholders (and thus me personally).

Tiger users might be interested in visiting amazon.com and get a nice discount.

I’m pretty sure that some people will go for a cheap upgrade path, presumably the young and hip, but then again they are still uneducated and don’t make any money – we old geezers however should teach them right from wrong. Shouldn’t we?

Master Chief, on August 27th, 2009 at 5:03 am

This is consistent with Apple’s previous policy from family packs. You can easily use a single install disc to install to all of your computers, but Apple offers people the chance who genuinely like legit software to do so. Apple seems much more reluctant to go down the road of ‘licence keys’ that Microsoft has gone down recently. Not that I mind them too much, but it’s nice that at least one company trusts it’s consumers. Although then again you can easily argue it’s because so few people have a Mac

Matt Jessop, on August 27th, 2009 at 5:13 am

I don’t think Pete needs to be corrected about the legal aspects of what he is asking. I think he knows that the law protects Apple in this case sure, but he is asking about the morals as the law does not actually prevent you from using that disc and odds are you could do it and never ever get caught.

Personally I think Apple is so lax about is more common software (Max OSX & iLife) because it is not a big of a money maker as one would think. I think it is less about “trusting their customers” and more about making it as easy as possible for apple users to stay current (and to STAY apple users). iWork and Final Cut both use keys now. I am sure LOTS of copies of Snow Leopard will be installed illegally, but you are still using a mac, still using iTunes, still using an iPod, iPhone. Over all even pirating Snow Leopard benefits apple in this way.

But to answer your question. No I would pay for it even if it cost the more traditional $129. It makes me feel good that I paid for software that a team of hundreds or 1 guy wrote. I think most people that pirate software forget just how much hard work goes into making it. Same thing with music.

- Kiteless

Kiteless, on August 27th, 2009 at 9:55 am

As a Tiger user, I resent that I am not given an intermediate option.

Migrating to Leopard when it was initially released meant sacrificing the stability that Tiger had achieved by that time, and broken compatibility with a number of applications.

However, by now, Tiger support is being dropped by most software makers. I bought the “MacHeist” kit to try new softare – and couldn’t use most of the included applications.

I don’t have the choice of buying a Tiger-to-Snow-Leopard “Upgrade and Migration Kit” for something like $59 or even $99; to upgrade, I have to purchase iWork (which I won’t use, and will waste hard disk space) and iLife (which will overwrite my preferred earlier versions of iMovie, for instance).

I understand that there’s no business rationale for making a seperate product for Tiger upgrades, but Tiger’s still a very large part of Apple’s user base. I’m a Tiger user, I want Snow Leopard, I don’t want Leopard, and I don’t want iWork.

And I’m not alone!

Ilan, on August 27th, 2009 at 10:19 am

@ Kiteless: You are 100% wrong about “the law and you are the one that needs to be “corrected about the legal aspects.”

The law *does* “actually prevent you from using that disc” and the fact that the “odds are you could … never ever get caught” have nothing to do with whether or not it’s actually legal.

@ Pete: The author should be ashamed here for pushing the idea of breaking the law and making it sound like it’s some technicality that should be ignored. It’s not about “living by the spirit of Apple’s marketing” at all. Paying $30 for the best OS on the planet (ten times less than the competitor!), is a “steal” in and of itself.

Advocating that people rip Apple off just because they can, really illuminates the ethics behind this entire website. That and the fact that they annoy us with “deals on toys” on a daily basis, as if we are all so desperately cheap that all we can think of is WalMart style deals on second hand junk. I’d rather read an actual tech story thanks very much.

Promoting empathy goes both ways. How can the author advocate corporations being more *empathetic* to their customers (see his bio), and then turn around and advocate that the customers screw them over just because (essentially), the corporation can afford it and you can get away with it?

I’m thinking you failed ethics class in college.

Gazoobee, on August 27th, 2009 at 10:43 am

Gazoobee:

OK I can see that I need to be totally crystal clear on this web site as some folks seem to see what they want to see and not that I am actually saying.

To say again more clearly: The law does not prevent me from physically taking a disc and putting it in my computer. It does not stop me from installing the software contained on that disc, and while I choose to keep my nose clean I know there are LOTS of people with software on their Mac’s & Windows computers that they did not pay for. The law protects Apples Copyright and if I did steal software the law can punish me with a big nasty fine and even send me off to jail. Just like the law protects people from something like a robbery. In many cases it does not prevent it. That is all I am trying to say. That being said, I think for you to say that I am 100 percent wrong is at least 81 percent wrong. But I think you and I both know that at least 75 percent of all statistics are off by at least 5 percent.

You and I agree though, stealing is wrong and while I do use both Windows and Mac, I think OSX is the best operating system on the planet too!

Lastly, if this web site annoys you so much, why are you here putting us all in our place?

Your friend and Colleague,
- Kiteless

Kiteless, on August 27th, 2009 at 11:10 am

Yeah, I think if you only have two choices – upgrade for $29 or not upgrade at all – then Apple would rather you be up to date. If I get the upgrade for my work computer (which is Leopard) and take that disc home and upgrade my little iMac that I only use for internet and iLife (which I have an iLife 09 disc already too) then I don’t see too much harm done. While it may be technically illegal, I don’t have a moral issue with it (can we say $1.23 billion profit for 3rd quarter?). The amount of money Apple makes off of me from personal and work related purchases including hardware, software, music, apps & iphone subsidies – well… I think I deserve a little discount instead of being forced to buy iLife (which I already have a disc) and iWork (which I wouldn’t ever use) for a premium price over the leopard stand alone disc. That’s my opinion aside from the technical legal issues which I can’t argue against.

T-Dawg, on August 27th, 2009 at 11:19 am

Gazoobee, I doubt you have read the EULA for the Snow Leopard version in question so your claim that:
‘ The law *does* “actually prevent you from using that disc” ‘
is complete nonsense.
You seem very uptight about all this.
You need to understand that large companies are often immoral and too frequently break the law themselves.

T-Dawg, you could always buy the family pack if you want to try and follow the spirit of doing the right thing.

my 2 cents worth, on August 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

Why doesn’t Apple let me upgrade my OS without buying iWork and iLife?

Because they know the only way to move those products is to force people to buy them with a bundle. Basically, I’m being punished for being a bad little Mac-Bot and not upgrading in a timely manner.

Unless Apple wants to deal with me in good faith, and sell me an OS-only upgrade from Tiger, they can stick the box set in their iButt.

mac fan, on August 27th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Anyone who bought a Mac on or since June 8 can get Snow Leopard for a $10 shipping/handling fee:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

electrojitter, on August 27th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

The cost proably work out like this:
If someone has an intel Mac and is still running Tiger, they probably would not fork out for a 10.4.x to 10.6 upgrade anyway. As fas as activation goes, most of their customers will be legitimate Apple hardware purchasers, so the cost of running activation servers is probably too high. However OS X server does require an activation key, but I don’t know it it is actually registered and activated anywhere, there is no feedback like with MS and my server activated fine with no internet connection so I guess it is a simple encrypted key to enable a certain number of users.
Also the upgrade process may not detect if you actuall y have tiger or lepard, but I bet I know where all the upgrade testing would have been, so Apple are just limiting their suppor texposure to upgrades from 10.5 only. If you have 10.4, it is probably completely untested and may even brick your mac. Who knows.
Back up first this is a .0 update from Apple after all.
iPhone 1.0 – crap and slow
iPhone 2.0 – buggy
iPhone 3.0 patched within a couple of weeks of release to 3.0.1

I’ve ordered my copy of 10.6 for my 2GHz mini however, but I wont install it for a week or so. I have some deadlines to meet for next weekend.

John Howell, on August 27th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

what a bunch of old fuddy duddy’s moralists on here….

get real

I will buy the $29 Snow Leopard and upgrade Tiger

yeah, and I make copies of my DVD’s too

There, see how easy that was?

valend, on August 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

The only reason that I’m considering buying the lower priced version of Snow Leopard is because I don’t need the extra crap that comes with it. Just like Mac Fan above me has stated. I don’t want to have iWork and iLife shoved down my throat just because I chose not to upgrade to Leopard when it came out. I like the stability of Tiger and I wanted to keep it until I was ready to upgrade to the next OS that I felt comfortable with. However I feel that I’m being forced to do that at this point because most applications don’t have any more support for Tiger and thus I need to upgrade to either Leopard or Snow Leopard. Can you guess which route I’m going to take considering the money situation it would take to do it the “right” way? Why would apple even allow an upgrade disc if they didn’t know people were going to do this. Why not a digital download to the computers with Leopard that would Automatically restart and install the OS on their computer -_-

Kent, on August 27th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

So all you ‘intermediate option’ whiners would be ok with $129 for Leopard + $29 for Snow Leopard: $158 like everyone else?

I find it hard to believe that you won’t be able to squeeze $11 worth of value out of iLife & iWork…

stephen, on August 28th, 2009 at 8:09 am

Where does it actually state that upgrade from tiger to snow lepoard using the 29$ disc is prohibited and thus illegal?
Maybe Apple wants peope to upgrade in this manner if you choose to.

Pingo, on August 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Why does everyone hate on iWork so much? I use it every day for my business and it’s a truly wonderful solution.

Then again, I can’t stand to use anything made by Microsoft, so maybe I’m weird.

Apple gave us a gift with this $29 Tiger to Snow Leopard upgrade, stop saying it’s illegal. They wouldn’t unknowingly leave a gap like that. Consider it Christmas in August.

Hate the game not the player, on August 28th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

Some of us intermediate whiners would be happy with an option that didn’t put us in a position to choose whether or not to violate EULA or our wallets. I only really want Snow Leopard and iLife 09 and could realistically get it for around $80.00 on Amazon now as opposed to paying 70 bucks more for iWork which I don’t want or need.

Bought my iMac in Sept 07 and whatever the cutoff was for getting a Leopard installed machine was I missed it by days. So, I stuck with Tiger rather than pay for Leopard thinking I’d possibly get it later. Then heard about SL and decided to wait. Don’t know what I’m gonna do yet but don’t like the options of either violating EULA or paying for something I don’t want or need.

Greg, on August 28th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

Hmmm… TO MUCH legal nonse for me! Box set or not!!!

Here is what I as Danish mac user think.
About two years ago or so I bought the upgrade for OS X aka Tiger. Same time I got the trial version of iWorks and felt I should give it a worthy try. I the begining I felt it was cumbersome and awkward to use. After a while I felt I got the hang of it and thought it was also a god looking piece of software.
Although I still had (that’s what I thought it was) minor difficulties using the the programs (had by that time been using MS Office for six years at that time) I actually liked iWorks and were surprised about Pages ability to save in word format as well converting it.

Now! Although I’m Danish, I have configured OS X to be in English since it is more convenient for me to have it that way due to the programs that I work with. Now that choice gave me a (to me) very surprising problem. I must often (SURPRISE!!!) write my documents i Danish and in Word that’s not problem because I can just without any problems change the spell checkers language. That not the case in Pages!!! Pages uses the language that OS X is set to, which in my case is English and there is no chance that I can change it unless I re-installed OS X and changed the language. And how do I know that? Well! I tried to change the language (for the spell checker) from English to Danish in System Preferences> Internationals but only expirience that I messed it up more than I liked!
After that experience I ran screaming and crying back to MS Word and MS Office where I was pleased, safe and sound.

SO NOW! LONG STORY FOR A SHORT QUESTION!!!

Why must I pay for something that I can’t use and don’t need (iWork and iLife) when buying the Mac Box Set to $169.00, when I can get what I need and want (that’s what it seems to me!) plus it is a legal copy of OS X for only $29.00???

These prices are off cause American prices, the Danish prices (you better sit down before you read on!!!) with current exchange rates $240 for the Mac Box Set and $44 for Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. Voila!!!

So please quit that shareholder whining and legal rubbish and give me what I want!!!

I hope this contribution is useful for your debate here?

Best regards
From Kim in Denmark

Kim Merrild, on August 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

I think Apple knew exactly what they were doing. Don’t think for a minute Apple didn’t know that Uncle Walt (or any other reviewer) wouldn’t spill the beans. What is he doing still running Tiger anyway? You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Call it hedging a bet. If it’s one thing Apple is good at, aside from making insanely great products, it’s how to generate profit. If you had a choice between a 29.00 full install or a 169.00 full install plus iLife and iWork. The majority will go with the 29.00 package, which is a good deal, but so is the box set. Anyone who buys the box set is still getting the upgrade to Snow Leopard for 29.00! Leopard, by itself, was retailing for 129.00.

Tiger still works great and will for some time. But it won’t be long before you forget it ever existed. This is Apple. They know what they’re doing. And in the long run it’s for the best. Apple perfected win-win marketing a long time ago and we all benefit from it. They also have the best customer support in the world. The truth is, Snow Leopard could retail for 500.00 and it would be worth every red cent!

Eugene, on August 28th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

I wonder if there is any difference between the disc that comes in the $30 upgrade and the one that comes in the box set. I would bet there is no difference. So why should I buy it when like other commenters here I have no use for iwork or ilife? To help Apple’s bottom line? They are doing fine last time I checked and if this hurts Apple then it serves them right for being so manipulative.

let me guess, on August 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Eugene, a $500 Snow Leopard would be worth every cent? Are you out of your mind?

Apple’s logic of “well Tiger users didn’t pay for the Leopard upgrade originally so their upgrade path should be more expensive” is bogus. I don’t think every user out there actually “bought” their OS retail. I got Tiger because that was out at the time when I bought my mac about 2 years ago. So how is it fair that I supported Mac a few years earlier than my sister, who bought a mac a month ago, but she can purchase Snow Leopard for a lower price? She didn’t buy Leopard, heck her macbook pro was even cheaper than mine!

What the hell Apple?

Alf, on August 30th, 2009 at 11:45 am

I didn’t know about the situation with the EULA, I walked into an Apple Retail Store, said I wanted Snow Leopard and walked out with it to install over my Tiger Installation without being made aware that I needed to buy a different pack. I wasn’t asked my current OS or made aware in an easy format that I could only install this over Leopard. Apple clearly cares not that I have done this. If the OS was £80 I wouldn’t have bought it, but at £25 it was worthwhile.

Pilgrim, on August 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am

[...] upgrade disc for users who have OS 10.5 (Leopard). What Apple has not announced is that this upgrade disc will also upgrade your OS X 10.4 (Tiger) systems as well!  Thank you Apple for the cheapest OS upgrade in [...]

Snow Leopard Cheat-sheet « NG.Micro, on August 31st, 2009 at 1:29 pm

I don’t see a moral quandary. Instead of buying a brand new $129 operating system when it was released, you’ve waited TWO YEARS for the price to drop. During the that two years, you got no benefit from any of the new features of Leopard.

Apple should really want those stragglers to upgrade.

James, on August 31st, 2009 at 1:50 pm

Throw your integrity away for $29 or less. You’re all pathetic and will obviously never grow up… no amount of money will make you a man, only true integrity can.

georjets, on September 1st, 2009 at 2:11 am

Screw it!! I’m a Tiger user and I’m not even going to buy the $30 disk, I’m going to borrow it from a friend!! Suckersss!!!

lawyers bedamnned, on September 2nd, 2009 at 11:02 am

I have another question: who wouldn’t use 10.5.8 but upgrades now to 10.6.0?

sirdir, on September 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm

As a student (cue the violins), it would have been really decadent, in my mind, to have upgraded to Leopard for $129. Tiger met my needs. At $35 CDN, Apple capture my business, my partner’s business, and all the other penny-pinchers out there.

For the nay-sayers, I think it’s unfair to be so righteous just because you have the economic power to do so.

--, on September 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pm

I wish this hadn’t been published – being a software developer hearing things like this CRUSHES me. Yes the disk CAN upgrade ANY version of X – it has to be able to have that option for doing a clean install, otherwise you’d have to install 10.5 first, then 10.6 – that blows. I’ve never done an “upgrade” of my OS, installing a clean copy is always best practice, albeit time consuming.

If you buy the $29 dollar version without having a legit license of 10.5, you ARE breaking the law – will you get caught? probably not…
Assuming you have 10.4, you are probably running an older iLife / iWork, why not buy the box set – get all three and sleep a little better at night. We developers put 1000’s of hours into writing our code and developing software – don’t cheat us.

Dan, on September 3rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm

I can’t afford it!!I love my macbook, but I saved my money for a long time and waited and waited and waited for leopard to come out and when I bought it online I asked “this is the NEW op, right?” “oh yes, it’s the latest version.” Well, it wasn’t, i got tiger and I was really disappointed. 40 days later leopard was released, I was 10 days over the grace period they extended to new buyers for the upgrade to leopard and I felt really cheated, I still think they should have given it to me. Shame on me for not knowing the difference between Leopard and tiger back then, but I am formerly a pc user. I still think about this and it still bothers me and has left a bad taste in my mouth over my whole buying experience. So will I go get snow leopard for $30? Probably, I still feel like I was cheated. I continue to support apple by buying their products. My son just bought another macbook for college, we both bought applecare, going to replace my mighty mouse tomorrow-it quit on me, we have 4 or 5 ipods, we use itunes. I hate the idea of doing something not legit, but when you pay such a premium for apple products your money doesn’t go as far as it does with other products.

viv, on September 3rd, 2009 at 7:42 pm

There have been many good points on here about moral integrity, and cheating and a few other legal points. I bought my Macbook 2 years ago with Tiger pre-loaded. Before Leopard came out I was deployed out of country and have only recently returned. Basically what you’re telling me is that for me to be “legit” I have to buy a copy of an OS (although I don’t actually have to install it) and then buy the new Snow Leopard OS? Thats like saying “You’re a cheater because you waited 2 years to buy a Mac at a lower price”. No dice folks. I’m going to go buy the $29 version that has only the stuff I use. Thats why I buy single songs off Itunes, so I don’t get stuck with the stuff I don’t use.

Good Day…

Me, on September 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm

I’m a software developer too, but I won’t feel cheated if people do the rational thing and upgrade from tiger/10.4 direct to snow leopard/10.6. It’s not like all that money passes direct from you the consumer to Dan the software developer. Dan gets a competitive salary for doing his job, and if he’s lucky some equity/profit sharing. But Dan is not a marketer, accountant, salesperson, or any other vital stakeholder that make an organization function.

And stop making this an issue of integrity! Apple has failed miserably in marketing this release. If anything they should give progressive upgrade pricing to encourage people to “legitimately” stay current without penalizing them. Bowing down to The Big Corporation because it’s “legal” or “moral” when it’s so obviously wrong is not maintaining your integrity – on the contrary, it’s shelving your independent thought and only serving to encourage these corps to continue punishing loyalty by bilking us even more.

The question of “legality” would not be settled unless someone actually gets sued and/or prosecuted and the case is argued in court. The question of “ethics” is also open, since Apple’s pricing is arguably unethical. And the question of morality is, by definition, up to the individual and the community, so it’s always debatable, but hardly worthwhile in a trivial instance such as upgrading software.

Jeez people, you need to travel more.

pablito, on September 4th, 2009 at 10:40 am

Rant aside, another consideration might be what happens to your applecare if you still have it with your tiger box.

pablito, on September 4th, 2009 at 10:47 am

agree i have already paid $200+ for MS office and i don’t want iwork i’d buy the cheaper one for upgrading tiger macs.

icow, on September 5th, 2009 at 12:31 am

I use Tiger and iWork 09. (Yes, iWork 09 works on Tiger.) I was hoping to skip Leopard and upgrade to Snow Leopard but only available legitimate option to upgrade from Tiger is buying a box Set?? Though I already own iWork 09, there is no choice of buying a stand alone OS, or Box Set without iWork. I don’t want and need to pay $199 for a bundle with another copy of program I already have. Or paying $120 or so for buying SL upgrade disc and iLife 09 still doesn’t allow me to upgrade Tiger according to EULA, right?
This just doesn’t make sense. I am buying the $29 upgrade disc.

jbto, on September 5th, 2009 at 1:11 am

Lots to chew on in this chain. Here’s one for you all: I have 3 Intel Macs. Two run Leopard. One runs Tiger. I don’t care about iWorks at all. I only slightly care about iLife (basically iPhoto). What’s the “best” way of moving everybody to SL? Other factors: 1) I don’t want to break any laws; 2) I don’t believe in paying anyone any more than I’m legally obliged to; 3) I have been out of a job for 14 months!

me2, on September 6th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

I didn’t upgrade to Leopard because of the cost (just wasn’t worth it to me for the price). If upgrading to SL costs me $159, I won’t do it, either. But if I can do it for $30, then I will gladly pay it. So in the end, Apple gets $30 that they otherwise wouldn’t have and still come out ahead. Just food for thought.

nw, on September 10th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Furthermore, Apple’s fixed costs in spending 1000s of hours developing the OS may be high, but their variable costs of making the plastic DVDs is very low. If people can get $30 copies, more people will buy and Apple will see more revenue. If they force everyone Tiger use to go for the $159, then more will either forgo it (like I would) or pirate it. Either way, they see $0 revenue from these people. I don’t know about y’all, but if I were Apple I think I’d prefer people spend $30 a pop and at least pay them SOMETHING, even if they are Tiger users. Not saying it makes it legal/moral/right to do, but simple business logic tells me even Apple would prefer this.

nw, on September 10th, 2009 at 4:34 pm

I just bought a brand new mac book pro and the snow leopard disk came with my new computer. I was wondering if anyone in this forum would have a problem with me installing it into my imac which runs on Tiger? I mean since when do we have to ask permission to do anything? They sent me the disk. I paid for the new computer. Hello! If they are holding it out in front of you, why not take it! You save over a hundred dollars. Only a fool would all of a sudden look to religious morals and say, “I should just buy the bundle, because good morals and judgement is one of my many fortes”. Well that is ridiculous. I feel sorry for all of you imbeciles who feel they should shell out the cash to a huge corporation, with an apple that has bite out of it, nonetheless. To the laymen, that means; apple enjoys the fact that adam and eve ate from the apple and caused some sort of ruckus and got everyone kicked out of the garden of eden. Please people look at their logo!!! And its colored like the chakras, which to christians is some form of magic! whoa hold on!!! steve jobs is no fool, he is part of the illuminati. He wants you to buy the 29 disk, and then you think you just mad out like a bandit. All the while he watches the numbers and laughs at how he has compromised your morals. Your damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Later y’all.

Ben the Jew, on September 11th, 2009 at 1:50 am

I had a Tiger Laptop and bought a $30 upgrade it’s great it supports ilife 06 as well!

It also fixed my dead battery that wasn’t working before the update (hooray!)

iCow, on September 11th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

Can’t wait for 10.6.1

iCow, on September 11th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

BEWARE!

These programs are like to crash when using snow leopard:
Automator
Photo Booth
Big iMovie Projects

These apps won’t be stable till 10.6.1

iCow, on September 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

All my friends who brought leopard (10.5.8) are pissin’ themselves they spent $158 on the disks about 3 weeks ago…

iCow, on September 11th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

Is there anyway I can install snow leopard on my 2.16 iMac with tiger and not do a complete fresh install? I can’t afford to lose my programs I have like CS3. Is this possible?

TJ, on September 12th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

I just upgraded my tiger to SL. Worked fine! No need for clean install! Having said that I probably will do a clean one quite soon, been using it for 3 years and it’s a mess.

macca, on September 15th, 2009 at 6:27 am

Just need to correct my previous post, lots of apps are not opening (error -10810 ??) or behaving strangely … so clean install probably wiser.

macca, on September 15th, 2009 at 7:53 am

So i bought a video game and found out that I needed to upgrade my tiger to leopard to install the game. Then I tried to purchase leopard but the apple store told me that they have discontinued leopard all together. I understand the marketing scheme, but it’s just such a hassle, especially if i don’t even care for the additional software.

sylvia, on September 16th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

“So i bought a video game and found out that I needed to upgrade my tiger to leopard to install the game. Then I tried to purchase leopard but the apple store told me that they have discontinued leopard all together. I understand the marketing scheme, but it’s just such a hassle, especially if i don’t even care for the additional software.” – Sylvia

If thats true it’s impossible for Tiger users to legally upgrade to Snow Leopard without spending $300+ NZ or buying a new mac WTF APPLE.

Cake FTW

icow, on September 21st, 2009 at 3:58 am

P.s correcting previous post about unstable apps:

Automator was known to have bugs in it before release apple just said stuff it (expander) and chose to fix it at 10.6.1 or .2 (when ever they can be stuffed).

iMovie is buggy ( like the one on the moon) because it wasn’t intended to be supported apple expected Tiger users to buy the box set to get rid of iLife and iWork 06. It’s only stuffing up cause 10.6 has no real support for it and sees it as a normal app that you downloaded. These bugs won’t be fixed cause thats the price you pay for being cheap

Tally:

Steve Jobs: 1
Consumers: about 10mill or so
_________________________________
Macbook 13′
Intel Core Duo 2 1.8ghz
4gb DDR2
120 gb HD
244mb Nvidia stack card (partly dead

icow, on September 21st, 2009 at 4:16 am

I think it is outrageous that Apple forces Tiger owners to buy iWork09. I want iLife09 anyway so even if I do the clean Snow Leopard install they will still get >= $100 from me.
Regarding iWork, I do not want it. Unfortunately, Apple seems to have no clue what spreadsheets are used for. I could not figure out how to set it to manual calculation! Unfortunately, Apple seems to have no clue what spreadsheets are used for.
They should instead promote StarOffice/OpenOffice.

ah, on September 22nd, 2009 at 9:42 pm

Also, let’s not forget what has happened to Power PC Tiger (or Panther) users.

Up until this release, they still had the option to upgrade to Leopard. Now they cannot upgrade to Leopard OR Snow Leopard. I usually love Apple, but this time they have made a mistake. I will probably buy the pack for my Leopard iMac, because I enjoy both iLife and iWork, and have only the ‘08 version of both suites. Since I do believe in purchasing full legal versions of software (especially products I really enjoy, as it supports their further development), I would even spring for the family pack, except it will not work on one of my machines.

With no other option, upgrading my older machine to Leopard (now the limit for PPC) will have to be accomplished by borrowing somebody else’s disc. There is no legal way to do this (that I know of, if somebody does, please correct me). Mac has left their PPC (not THAT old a technology) users out in the cold. I guess I understand why Snow Leopard is and Intel only upgrade, but then an older version should still be available for PPC users.

Apple, you leave me no choice.

Laurence, on September 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am

Actually, without regard to the EULA or morality, how the heck to you install the snowleopard on macbook without a complete new install. When I put it in the drive, it isn’t recognized. At all. It doesn’t self boot, and doesn’t show up as a disk on the desktop. I know it is a good disk, because I used it for upgrading two macbook pros that had leopard on them.

Mike, on September 26th, 2009 at 8:57 am

Having just upgraded my 10.4 Tiger MacBook to 10.6 snow Lepard for a mere £25 I am now very satisfied, however no where on the packaging does it mention that it is supposed to be an upgrade. given that i bought it from the Apple store, I have no problem with installing it as I am under no legal or otherwise obligation to purchase 10.5, Apple have my continued custom and the business live on.

Jon, on September 30th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

I bought a MacBook with Leopard and missed the SL grace period by 10 days. I can probably get the dealer to give me a discount on the 29 € ($40!!) SL upgrade as I am a ‘regular’ customer (as opposed to an irregular one).
My MacMini is a PPC – don’t ridicule! PPCs were a damn good product in their day. My problem is, I still like my Mini and it fulfills my needs, but it’s showing signs of ’support’ neglect – like the Logitech Webcam for Mac (it doesn’t work with Tiger! 99€/$140 down the drain!). I personally do not need an upgrade but seems I am not allowed to live undisturbed without one. Does Apple truly wish to punish me for not throwing out its earlier products?

Jack in Berlin, on October 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 am

I feel it is totally legal to buy Snow Leopard and upgrade from Tiger!!! You have the right to do whatever you want with that disc when once you own it. Apple gets their money back by ripping off the public with it’s outlandishly high prices on hardware and it’s Apple Care scam program all the time. Their tech support alone is a crime in itself!

Simon, on October 8th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

I went into the Mac store the other day and the salesperson told me I had to buy the $160 package to update from Tiger to SL, and that the $30 update would not work, no mention of iLife or iWork.

AW, on October 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

[...] (10/13/09): Despite Apple’s recommendation, Tiger users with Intel Macs can upgrade just fine from the $29 [...]

Carolyn Blogs » Blog Archive » Using a Mac On a Budget: Is It Time To Upgrade?, on October 13th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

I recently purchased Logic Studio for $500 only to find out that it wouldn’t work on Tiger. No one told me I would have to upgrade my OS to use the software. I will take the cheap upgrade thanks.

trevor, on October 17th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

@ whoever asked why someone would fail to upgrade to Leopard? I’m a student, and Tiger worked fine. Now i’m upgrading my whole system, and Time Machine is looking pretty darn useful. And i’d say i padded Apple’s pocket a bit in 2006 when i bought a Macbook Pro for nearly 2grand. I’ll be a faithful customer, but i agree wholeheartedly about the lack of utility of iWork – Open Office is just fine, thanks. Ain’t my fault Apple keeps updating things faster than i need or can afford to upgrade, so really, why should it be a big deal to them? If you’re on a moral high horse methinks you have resources you don’t know what to do with, like too much time on your hands to make self-righteous comments, or the money to buy every upgrade that comes out. I suggest you not flaunt them, as opulence is to the proletariat merely grotesque.

*, on October 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 am

I found it interesting that when I went to my local Apple store for help with a software issue, the TECHNICIAN referred me to purchase the 29 dollar copy of Snow Leopard. I am a Tiger user, which would mean I should purchase the “bundle package.” But seeing how I will never use iWork or iLife, I could not see spending an additional $150. Especially when the Apple technician recommended this for me. And to further that, he even printed out instructions from the Apple website on how to go from Tiger to Snow Leopard. I think if Apple didn’t want people to do this, then things of this sort should not have happened. Also, I would like to add that had I not been able to purchase the $29 copy, I would not have made a purchase at all.

Lucy, on October 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am

I fail to see the legal issues when the $29 snow leopard is the same exact disk that comes in the bundle. ilife and iwork are $79 each by themselves.

blue, on November 5th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

So I just did this, but when SL finished installing it restarted and now I have been stuck on the start up screen for an hour. I tried hard shutting down and trying again but no luck. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Zach, on November 7th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

If Apple didn’t want you to be able to upgrade from Tiger to Snow Leopard, they would have made it impossible. They’re not stupid over there. They know that many people, mainly students such as myself, would be more apt to buy a $30 product than a $159 package. As far as I know, a $30 sale is more profitable than no sale. And for those people whining about this taking away shares and profits, give it a rest. It’s a few hundred dollars out of billions. If you wanna whine about losing money on your stocks blame the people that sell “Apple software” out of the back of their trucks in Chinatown. The $30 SL disc is still putting money in your pockets.

Stephanie, on November 8th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

I am a Tiger user about to upgrade to SL. I went to the Apple store and examined the packaging – nowhere on it does it state that I am required to run Leopard to use SL.

I had to ask 2 different Apple technicians about the whole SL/SL Box Set discrepancy and was finally told that only the Box Set will _work_ with Tiger. They did not mention anything about it being mandatory.

I fail to see anything, anywhere that states that I am breaking a law or in theory stealing something by purchasing the $29.99 disc for Tiger instead of the Boxset – is this in the licensing or something? As in, I would have to buy the disc, open it, install it, and THEN find out I’m breaking the law?

JC, on November 13th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

I’ve been through about a dozen iPods, two MacBooks, and numerous other Apple products. The only stealing going on here is the 140$ price differential for an upgrade.

ChiTownTimmay, on November 21st, 2009 at 9:10 pm

You zealots need to give your head a shake.

I’ll install my upgrade on whatever I damn well please, I paid for it. Forcing me to buy and install 10.5 just to get to 10.6 is nothing but BS, if Apple had of waited and coded the OS properly in the first place none of this would be an issue. The fact is 10.5 never should have been released in the first place.

So… ah… ya… stuff it!

Nemain, on November 30th, 2009 at 12:21 am

i have tiger, i bought the upgrade of snow leopard and i cant installed it says that i need leopard 10.5

victor Morlett, on December 5th, 2009 at 1:21 am

Bought Snow Leopard and it told me I did not have enough RAM.

genafish, on December 11th, 2009 at 2:22 am

I copied this directly from the Snow Leopard page on the apple website:

Upgrade your Mac experience.

With Snow Leopard, iLife ’09, and iWork ’09 all in one box, the Mac Box Set is the best way to upgrade your Mac experience, especially if you’re still using Mac OS X Tiger.

….So…while I appreciate and respect those who do not want to steal and are imploring others not to do so, I believe that in this instance your zeal is misplaced. Apple is very clearly giving Tiger users permission to buy this $30 upgrade to Snow Leopard.

Schnitzel, on December 14th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

Okay….so now let me pull my foot out of my mouth and restate something:

….the “MAC BOX SET” is the best way to upgrade your experience…….

Which means they do indeed want you to pay the 170 bucks for upgrading from Tiger to Snow Leopard. My only question is why would they say it like that? The “best way?” Why not just say that Tiger users “must” buy the box set? And why did they make it possible to to use the Snow Leopard upgrade disc? As Stephanie stated above, “They aren’t stupid…”

Schnitzel, on December 14th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

It looks like folks have had varied responses with the jump form Tiger to Snow Leopard. My own was perfectly smooth. It took some time–when the install screen said I had “39 minutes” remaining for about 20 minutes, I got worried! Then I listened, and I heard the DVD playhead moving, so I figured all was well.

It was. Everything has worked smoothly–all of Apple’s software, anyway–as well as Word. However, Parallels 5.0 (!) is giving me problems, so if you’re heavily dependent on it, proceed with caution.

Anyway, my anxieties about jumping from Tiger to Snow Leopard were misplaced, at least at this point, months after SL’s release.

KK, on December 16th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

Folks, Buy the 29$ and upgrade is smooth. I just upgraded mine and no problems what so ever ( I don’t have that many applications)

I talked to the apple salesman, the guy was recommending to get box set because it’s cheaper than getting leopard and getting 30$ snow leopard. I asked him, does it snow leopard work, Yes/No. His reply, “the best option” is box set

But 29$/25$ amazon is the best way.

DK, on December 19th, 2009 at 1:36 am

So basically the people who dropped mega money on a G5 Power PC computer bought only 3 years ago are left in the cold, and can’t upgrade to Snow Leopard! WTF!! Way to go Apple! You guys really know how to provide some great customer service! Oh that’s right, you no longer carry Leopard 10.5 anymore at your stores too?
Well you leave me no choice now to borrow a buddy’s 10.5 Leopard disc and do a free upgrade from Tiger. Your asshole moves just landed you zero cash in your pockets with that screwed up customer support. Anyone want to borrow my Leopard discs when I’m done? I’ll burn ya a copy! My salute to CRAPPLE!

Simon, on December 20th, 2009 at 4:00 am

UPGRADING FROM TIGER TO SNOW LEOPARD WORKS!!! I hope this helps those of you looking to upgrade, and I hope it pisses off all you people who think this is somehow immoral.

I gave my niece my MacBook (which ran Tiger 10.4.11), and desperately needed to upgrade to Leopard in order for her to use the Sims 3. In any case, I was given the run-around by the people at a Mac Store (not the Apple Store) on whether or not I could use the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade disk. I specifically told them I had Tiger, and wanted to move to Leopard and had read that I could get away with the $29 version as opposed to the Box Set. I know it’s their job, but they would not give me a straight answer. I was led to the Box Set, and told that was my only option. When I asked why I couldn’t get away with the $29 disk, the guy started rambling on about how the Box Set had iLife and iWorks, and I asked what that had to do with OS X and the game I wanted to play, and he just kept talking around the question.

Long story short, at least for me, upgrading from Tiger to Snow Leopard is not only possible, but INCREDIBLY easy. I’m not very computer savvy, and had read a couple things about having to do some special stuff, which slightly worried me. I came home, popped the DVD in my drive (with the computer already running), and just did my install. It took about 42 minutes and now the computer is updated to OS X and running beautifully! No problems at all, except for the two Mactards who wouldn’t just be cool and give me a straight answer. I understand it’s their job, but if I could save someone $130 in these times (or any), I would. Especially if they came to me with a straight-forward, specific question. They were such homers I wanted to shoot myself in the face. Needless to say, the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade ABSOLUTELY updated my MacBook that had Tiger 10.4.11. It also seems as though it’s going to work on my other MacBook (currently running OS X 10.7).

Just wanted to make sure everyone that wanted to use this option knows it IS an option. And as far as being “illegal,” that’s just ridiculous. I am using a Mac computer, buying a Mac upgrade, etc. I can understand if I were downloading it for free or using someone else’s DVD, but I am PURCHASING it. If they made a mistake, it’s their fault…but I think Apple is happy with people being able to have the best for their Macs – why wouldn’t a company want everyone with their product to be completely happy???

christian, on December 26th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

I had the Macbook Core Duo 1.83 GHz 512 MB Ram – 60gb HD, with the latest tiger version, upgraded to 2gb ram before snow leopard install. I bought the 29 dollar disk and it worked absolutely fine (as an upgrade, i did NOT do a clean install). It didnt say on the outside of the box anything about needing leopard when i bought the disk it so i figured it would be fine. Installed in 45 minutes with not a problem at all. glad i didn’t waste more money on the whole package which i didn’t need.

M, on December 27th, 2009 at 12:11 am

i went to the apple store yesterday to grab leopard and the sn upgrade and all they now carry is the sn upgrade. they say they’ve discontinued sn and that i’d have to grab it from amazon or something. i wanted to do it now instead of ordering on line so… i’m installing without leopard

the LAW may say it’s wrong but how about the morals of them telling me i need to upgrade to something they’ve discontinued and buy from a 3rd party or buy a new computer.

Maybe what they should do is raise the price of the sn upgrade since they no longer are carrying leopard and then it’d be fair for everyone. oh yeah. or sell leopard without all the other crap. by the time i buy all that, and the ram i’m adding, i might as well buy a new computer. … OR upgrade for $30 they’re fault. they’ve crossed an ethical boundary and expecting me to worry about some microscopic lines on they’re eula they’ve made enough off of everyone in our house buying ipods because the music they sell me will only play on their machines.

jc Riley, on December 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

I just tried to install the $30 Snow Leopard onto my 10.4.11 MacBook and I got a weird error that said it was impossible to install the software onto my disk. I have 2 gb ram and more than enough hard drive space.

I did not try to do a clean install, but the installation process did not give me the option to choose between a full install or upgrade. It just jumped into install mode and after about 5 minutes gave me the bad news.

Sigh.

melanie w, on December 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

Tiger to Snow Leopard ripping off shareholders and crossing ethical boundaries…what a joke. Who really wants ilife and iwork anyway….its called Adobe a close friend to apple, get familiar with it, you see it everyday i.e. Dreamweaver and Photoshop. Anyway, thanks Apple for the inexpensive and Powerful upgrade…anyone who wants to pay the extra $130 because you feel morally obligated to Apple and their shareholders…, ever think the did this intentionally, we are in times of economic crises…since our money based on exponents along with the entire economic system itself, save your cash, in 15 years you’ll be spending $30 on a loaf of bread. Until then save all you can, here’s a great way to start.

Michael, on December 30th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

i agree with michael.

i spent around $2500 on my mac system weeks before leopard came out. giving them an additional $30 seems fair enough to me.

crypt, on January 1st, 2010 at 8:55 pm

If i buy the $29 upgrade can I install it one 3 iMacs on one network?

alec, on January 6th, 2010 at 9:45 am

Maybe if you could just buy snow leopard and not have to pay extra for the bundle of iLife and iWork then buying the full version would not seem like Apple is trying to poop on those of us with Tiger. Why cant I just pay $100 and get Snow Leopard alone?

Dawson, on January 6th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

i cant believe apple would stoop so low, i am a young graphic designer, i have a mac pro and not much money or income, however why after the initial cost i spent on the machine should i give apple another £130 odd quid for the os that i was told is meant for my machine, ALL YOU TIGER USERS THAT FEEL CHEATED LIKE ME BUY THE UPDATE AND GIVE SOME OF THE SAVED PENNY’S TO A WORTH WILE CHARITY,

bob bob, on January 10th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

Understand that I don’t ever steal software. Ever. That said, I don’t believe for a second that using the $29 version of the SN to upgrade from Tiger is stealing. That’s the price of the SN. The difference between $29 and the $169 for the Mac OSX box set is the price of iWork and iLife.

Now, how about this? I’m working with an iMac featuring version 10.4.11 Tiger. It was one for the very first with the dual-core Intel chip – a 1.83 Ghz version. I’ve got 1 gb of 667 Mhz Ram. The computer still works well and I figure I’ll have it at least another year.

Then recently, my Airport Extreme router began acting up. It periodically disconnects from the Internet and requires me to unplug it, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in. After a week or so of this, I bought a brand-new Airport Extreme router. But when I attempted to install the software (which the new router required), I was informed it would not work with Tiger. I needed Leopard or newer.

Now, in the case like this, with a computer well into the second half of its life with me, should I pay $169 for the full OS X box set – just so I can install the software for my Airport Extreme router to maintain a reliable Internet connection. Buying a new computer isn’t an option now – maybe in another year.

I think the answer to my question is pretty obvious.

Steve, on January 18th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

I’m just going to remind everyone here that you’re a) not stealing the software either way, and b) the data on the disc is EXACTLY the same, INCLUDING THE EULA terms THAT ARE INCLUDED ON THE DISC.

THUS, it is a legal upgrade.

I’ve been using Office for years, and use pro apps (like Logic). Why should I go out and spend $160 to get iLife, when I’ll never use it?

It sounds to me like APPLE has an ethics issue, and not the user.

Jonny McMaynerberry, on January 25th, 2010 at 3:55 am

I was perfectly happy with Tiger. I have that PC connected to my TV and use Front Row a lot. I have problems with Front Row 1.3.1 working well with shared libraries and Itunes 9. No solution other than upgrade to Front Row 2.1.7, which requires OSX 10.5 or higher. Now, I’m not happy with Tiger.

Apple should either support Itunes 9 and Front Row 1.x, drop the requirement for OSX 10.5 in Front Row 2.x, or provide a reasonable cost upgrade. I will never use iWork or iLife on this PC.

I’ll probably do the $29 upgrade on this machine.

Brad, on January 27th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

I just came to this article after pondering about upgrading to SL from Tiger. I don’s see what the big deal is all about. The Box set for $169 allows you to upgrade to SL, iwork and ilife09. The $29 allows you to upgrade to SN with out ilife and iwork. Personally I will buy the $29 upgrade and ilife09 separately. I don’t need iwork since I am an Office user. Instead of paying $169 I will pay $110.00

Robert, on January 29th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

if you are only interested in upgrading from tiger why would you get the box set if you dont want ilife or iwork it doesnt make any sense, i dont see what the illegal aspect is in doing this your still buying SL just not with the package its just apple shitting on the little guy trying to get you to spend money.

When i was on the apple site i was so confused at first i was like why do i have to get the box set to upgrade.They even tell you to get the box set to upgrade from tiger and that didnt make any sense to me cause all it had was the other 2 programs in it and i was thought how would that help with the upgrade.

Thats how i ended up here looking to see what the difference is between the two but it seems i only need to spend $30

Ross, on January 30th, 2010 at 2:14 am

I have a PowerPC G5 and still run Tiger 10.4.11. I originally did not upgrade to Leopard due to its lacking the ability to run in “Classic” mode, however, now I wish to upgrade the OS. Apple no longer sells 10.5 and the prices on Ebay are outrageous. I cannot jump to Snow Leopard because it only runs on Intel macs.

Any ideas on where to get reasonably priced or free 10.5.x upgrade?

James, on February 4th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

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