Up next in 10
In this week's episode:
• AirPods with cameras are real, and Apple just showed how they’ll work - but they might not arrive until 2027.
• Oops: Apple accidentally leaks 10+ unreleased devices.
• iPhone 18 Pro Max might get big camera upgrades that regular Pro lacks.
• Graham: I’m getting my app ready for OS 27 next month.
Send us a text with comments, questions, feedback or a video to play on the show: [email protected]
More Apple news: http://www.cultofmac.com
Follow us!
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@cultofmac
Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@cultofmac
Instagram: https://instagram.com/cultofmac/
X: https://x.com/cultofmac
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cultofmac
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Coming up this week, Apple is leaking
0:02
like a serve. Code for the latest Mac OS
0:04
26 beta contains a Trevor Trover
0:06
secrets, including video of AirPods with
0:09
built-in cameras. It blew the lid off
0:11
Apple's product road map with clues to
0:13
10 other upcoming products. Welcome to
0:16
the Cult podcast. I'm your host, Leander
0:17
Kenny. Join me today are Louis Wallace,
0:19
Graeme Bar, and Charlie Sell. Hey guys.
0:21
>> Hello.
0:22
>> Howdy. Howdy.
0:25
>> Let's start with this air pod. Sorry,
0:28
cameras are real. Lewis, what uh what do
0:31
we know about this
0:32
>> crazy? So, this is buried in the uh Mac
0:35
OS 26.7 release candidate. It's a video
0:39
that shows somebody using AirPods with
0:42
built-in infrared cameras. Demo video
0:45
just pops up crazy in there. You we've
0:47
heard about these AirPods supposedly
0:49
coming for a while now. uh they're
0:52
supposed to work with visual
0:53
intelligence and let you know let Apple
0:57
uh you know capture information about
0:59
your surroundings that AI can make use
1:01
of all kinds of things right uh not
1:04
supposed to take pictures of you though
1:05
thank goodness uh just infrared so that
1:09
it can for instance uh make the world
1:12
savable that's what I that's crazy this
1:14
this v this video demo video says with
1:17
visual intelligence your world becomes
1:20
savable
1:21
see something you like, just ask me to
1:23
save it for later. And in the video, the
1:25
guy holds up a book. AirPods identify
1:28
it. Siri saves it for later. So, you
1:29
know, you could buy it later, whatever.
1:32
Uh, look, they look a lot like regular
1:35
old AirPods Pro. Infrared cameras
1:37
apparently built into the stems.
1:40
Uh, supposedly, I don't know where this
1:42
information came from. Apple even warns
1:43
you if your hair is covering them and
1:45
blocking the view. that may have come
1:47
from a previous reporting about this uh
1:50
this product that has not yet been
1:51
announced. Um so anyway, everybody's
1:53
like, "Oh my god, this means like
1:54
AirPods Pro 4 or AirPods Ultra coming
1:57
out, you know, when the iPhones launch
2:01
next next uh well probably early
2:03
September, late September." Uh but uh
2:05
this all came out earlier this week,
2:07
like Monday, I think. And then uh by
2:10
Wednesday,
2:12
Mark German, the
2:14
[laughter] I almost used a bad word. Uh
2:16
he slapped down this this rumor says,
2:18
"Oh yeah, it makes seem like they're
2:20
coming out really soon." But no, in
2:21
fact, they're delayed until 2027,
2:24
possibly due to software or supply chain
2:27
problems. So, you know, I got I got to
2:31
admit, I got kind of excited about these
2:32
things coming really soon, you know.
2:33
>> Hell yeah.
2:36
>> Yeah, me too. They look awesome. They
2:38
look absolutely fantastic. I couldn't be
2:40
more excited about it. I can't wait to
2:41
get my hands on those. Like, uh,
2:45
>> what would you use them for, Leo?
2:46
>> Yeah. Why would they Why would they be
2:48
better than your regular AirPods?
2:51
>> Well, you know, I could see what I'm
2:53
doing. I could do all that visual
2:54
intelligence stuff that I that I still
2:56
haven't trained myself to use on my
2:57
iPhone, but, you know, you could do it
3:00
without even thinking about it. I mean
3:01
that was that was one of the striking
3:03
things about it is there's no there was
3:04
no iPhone at all in that in that video
3:07
you know like it's it it uh it's
3:09
completely taken over. So you can you
3:12
all those use cases what kind of plant
3:14
is this? Where am I going? What's this
3:16
landmark? You know what kind of food
3:18
does this restaurant serve? All that
3:20
kind of stuff you can ask your your
3:21
AirPods you know you've got in your ears
3:23
and you're going to get an answer right
3:25
back and it's going to be awesome
3:26
because Siri is fixed now. um like
3:31
uh you know I I just think I think it's
3:34
like it's it's it's a completely new way
3:36
of using your devices, isn't it? I mean
3:39
this is the the AI era and the genius of
3:42
it is is that you know you don't have to
3:43
use your phone to do it. It's right
3:44
there in in these things that you've got
3:45
in your ears all day every day anyway.
3:48
Um so the Whoa.
3:51
>> God. Okay, Louis. Earthquake
3:57
[sighs and gasps]
3:58
[laughter]
3:58
>> piece of my amazing setup just uh fell
4:01
to the floor.
4:03
>> Whoops. It's like the chair company.
4:06
[laughter]
4:07
>> You know, on the AirPods, I agree. I
4:09
think um there are I I was thinking
4:11
about this the other day actually
4:12
because you know I developed this
4:14
strength training app for iPhone called
4:16
reps and sets and one of the things that
4:20
has been a long-term goal is finding
4:23
some way that you don't have to enter
4:25
the weight of of the the weights you're
4:28
lifting. You don't have to type in or
4:30
select the the type of exercise that
4:32
you're doing. And obviously if Siri AI
4:36
gets good and it's hooked up to cameras
4:38
that can watch what you're doing, then
4:40
it can actually see the weights that
4:41
you're picking up and it can see how
4:43
many repetitions you're doing and it it
4:45
can log all of that automatically. And I
4:49
that so that's just, you know, in my
4:51
particular use case of of strength
4:53
training apps, but I think that probably
4:55
applies in loads of different places. If
4:57
you've got a cooking app or something,
4:59
you know, Siri could correct you if you
5:00
put too much flour in the bowl. I think
5:03
there's loads of, you know, loads of
5:05
stuff like that which, you know, we we
5:08
haven't even scratched the surface of.
5:10
But what I'm really curious about is
5:12
they say these cameras, you know, they
5:14
the rumor is that these are not going to
5:16
be creep pods because the camera is very
5:19
low res and it's really only
5:21
intelligence.
5:22
>> I think [laughter] there's an even an
5:23
even better word. If if the cameras are
5:25
really low res, then are are they going
5:27
to be sufficiently good for Siri AI to
5:31
work with its visual intelligence? You
5:33
know, like in in that example that we
5:35
saw in the leak, the guy holds up a book
5:38
and holds it like right in front of his
5:40
face and it has huge lettering on the
5:43
cover. And and I was thinking maybe that
5:47
was deliberate. Maybe it it maybe it
5:49
only really works if you've got like a
5:51
book with massive letters that you hold
5:53
up right in front of you. And um I'm
5:56
really curious of is it, you know, is
5:57
that why it's being pushed back? Maybe,
6:00
you know, if if you got really low
6:01
resolution cameras, are are they going
6:03
to be good enough? But I also had
6:06
another theory on it being pushed back
6:08
and this is a reason for hope if like
6:10
Leander you you want to get your hands
6:11
on the or you want to get your ears on
6:12
these things now is that there is also
6:15
this rumor there's two versions right
6:17
there's uh the ones which are sort of an
6:20
evolution of the current AirPods Pro
6:22
with cameras built in and then there's
6:24
radically new AirPods Ultra coming out
6:27
next year and so it could be that the
6:29
ones that we saw in the leak actually
6:31
are coming out in September and what
6:34
Mark German is thinking about in terms
6:36
of what's being pushed back to next year
6:37
is the radical overhaul. Um I don't know
6:40
that that that's just spitballing that
6:42
that it could still be coming out in
6:44
September. It did look to me like that
6:46
video was a very finished asset for
6:48
something which is not coming out well
6:51
next year. So I I I I would be a little
6:53
bit surprised and that the last
6:55
prediction stroke hope that I have for
6:57
this product is as a Vision Pro fan, I
7:01
love the hand gestures that Vision Pro
7:03
has. you know, the way that you can just
7:05
tap your fingers together to Yeah.
7:07
>> Yeah. You can tap your fingers to select
7:09
something. You can swipe your finger. Uh
7:11
all of this stuff. And you know, some of
7:14
the rumors have said uh and Mark Gur has
7:17
poo pooed this, but some of the rumors
7:18
have said that these camera equipped
7:21
AirPods Pro will enable hand gestures
7:24
like the Vision Pro. And that would be
7:26
really awesome because especially if say
7:28
if I'm on a run and I'm listening to
7:30
music on my AirPods Pro and I try to
7:33
change the volume or jump forward with
7:34
the track by doing those touch gestures
7:37
on the stem of the AirPod Pro and I'm
7:40
clumsy and I could easily just yank it
7:42
out of my ear, you know, and if you
7:43
could actually do the hand gesture in
7:45
front of you rather than have to do it
7:47
on the
7:48
>> on something on a very delicate and
7:50
expensive thing which is tenuously
7:52
attached to your ear, then that's got to
7:54
be What's up?
7:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
7:57
>> As as much as I think that stuff looks
7:59
weird when you're, you know, sitting in
8:00
a room with those goggles on, I mean, if
8:02
you could just go like this and go,
8:04
"Yeah, you know, go forward 30 seconds.
8:07
Go forward." Cuz when I'm, you know, I
8:09
don't do running. I do walking workouts.
8:11
But when I do it, and I want, you know,
8:14
it come inevitably comes to an ad in a
8:16
podcast. You know what I want to do? I
8:17
want to fast forward right through that
8:18
ad as fast as possible. I go to my
8:20
watch. The freaking workout thing is
8:23
there. I It's impossible to get back to
8:25
it. I end up digging out my phone. I'm
8:27
walking down the street with my phone
8:28
trying to fast forward. If you could
8:29
just go like that, that would be so
8:31
sweet.
8:32
>> Mhm. All right.
8:35
>> Digging the music.
8:36
>> The cameras. I mean, I these are
8:41
whether they're, you know, they're going
8:43
to have to be a certain amount of
8:44
resolution to be able to to be useful,
8:46
like you said. And even if they're
8:48
infrared only, then infrared is still,
8:52
you know, you still make pictures from
8:53
infrared. That's what uh security
8:56
infrared security cameras do. You look
8:57
at those, they the colors shift or the
9:00
very often they're in black and white
9:01
because uh they're meant to be used in
9:03
the dark. You know, you need less light
9:04
to do that, but uh yeah, there you still
9:08
make pictures from them. So you might
9:10
not have uh access to take photos with
9:14
them this the way you can with the
9:16
pervert glasses but you're still you
9:19
know you still take pictures you still
9:20
you mentioned uh Graeme you might be at
9:23
the gym and you know in if you see if
9:26
you saw somebody in in Facebook's uh
9:28
Ray-B bands or in the well first of all
9:31
wearing sunglasses in the in the
9:33
changing room is a bit weird but if you
9:35
saw somebody in the ray in in perf
9:37
glasses in in in the changing room, then
9:40
well, you're going to sort that out,
9:41
aren't you? You're going to, you know,
9:42
have a word with them or maybe they're
9:44
going to get, you know, shown that it's
9:45
not right.
9:47
>> Scaring me now.
9:48
>> Tons of people wear uh AirPods
9:51
everywhere in the changing room and you
9:52
don't think anything of it cuz they're
9:53
just AirPods. So, let's uh are you going
9:58
to be happy? Okay, let's say that they
10:00
don't, you know, we don't have access to
10:02
get the pictures out and no one manages
10:05
to hack them, but still Apple is got
10:08
access to these uh the images coming
10:10
through the the the whatever is being
10:12
streamed through the cameras.
10:14
So, that's one thing. I mean, and we
10:16
know that Apple's uh Siri stuff has
10:18
leaked in the past, you know, when
10:19
they've been sending stuff up to for
10:20
people to check and it's just ended up
10:22
on third party servers.
10:24
>> Well, I doubt that they would upload the
10:25
images to Apple servers.
10:27
>> I doubt that, too. But the thing
10:29
not wanting to have that data.
10:31
>> Yeah. That's not uh but that's not the
10:33
point. It's the fact that it's possible
10:35
because you you think about um the
10:37
publicity around things and how when you
10:39
know Apple makes a phone that that that
10:41
bends a little bit or something
10:42
something there's a gate although there
10:43
are less there are fewer gates recently
10:45
but everyone loves an Apple gate. Uh and
10:49
now I'm thinking of Christina Applegate
10:50
from Married with Children.
10:52
>> This [laughter] could be turning your
10:54
first gate.
10:55
>> Yeah. So yeah, the
10:59
my point is is that if you're in a
11:00
changing room uh and somebody's wearing
11:02
AirPods, you don't know if they've got
11:04
cameras in them or not. And it it's
11:05
going to make a lot of people feel
11:06
uncomfortable. And I think that's going
11:08
to be bad news for Apple.
11:09
>> Don't infrared cameras see through
11:11
clothes.
11:12
>> Um
11:13
>> what it depends
11:14
>> because they thermal they're effectively
11:16
thermal cameras, aren't they?
11:17
>> They just Yeah.
11:19
>> Where does this infrared come from? Are
11:20
they Are they Is that Is that for sure
11:21
they're only going to be infrared?
11:22
Because this is the first time I've
11:23
heard this. So, I thought they were
11:24
going to be, you know, it would regular
11:27
cameras.
11:28
>> I I'd seen infrared somewhere, too.
11:33
>> But it does seem strange, especially
11:34
with visual intelligence. Some things
11:36
you you you need color for, don't you?
11:37
Like,
11:38
>> well, infrared can also be in color.
11:39
It's just it's a different uh it's
11:41
objects reflect all uh um lots and lots
11:46
of light that we don't see. There's a
11:48
whole range of uh you know stuff in the
11:50
spectrum and in the electromagnetic uh
11:53
electromagnetic spectrum we our eyes are
11:56
sensitive to a certain part of it but
11:58
outside of that you've got um
12:00
ultraviolet infrared on either end and
12:03
yeah our eyes don't see it but you can
12:05
but other things can see it infrared
12:07
film in cameras uh security cameras and
12:09
stuff you know an imaging chip so uh
12:13
yeah and
12:15
hot things give off
12:18
uh wavelengths of light as well which
12:20
are more yeah which can be detected by
12:21
infrared but it's not only that it's
12:23
also
12:24
>> the face ID is a cam it's an infrared
12:26
camera isn't it um
12:29
is
12:29
>> I think it's a mix it's infrared it also
12:31
beams out a dot a dot pattern onto your
12:34
face and I think it might
12:37
visual it uses a mix of stuff yeah
12:40
>> what it elapses from the light beams to
12:43
go to your face and back and from that
12:44
it can build a 3D model of your case.
12:47
Um, I think you've got infrared sensors
12:49
in the Apple Watch that because they the
12:51
infrared penetrates the skin a bit
12:53
deeper so that it can it can image the
12:56
the blood vessels under the skin.
13:00
>> Yeah. But like like Charlie said, it's
13:02
uh, you know, heat heat sensing, isn't
13:03
it? Sorry, you said that that's like a
13:06
heat sensing um spectrum. If someone if
13:10
someone hacks this and actually manages
13:12
to get access to the video, then you
13:15
could see someone's warm body through
13:17
their clothes
13:18
>> in the gym. This could be a turner
13:20
skate.
13:22
>> Turner skate.
13:25
[laughter]
13:27
>> I was just I don't think any of that
13:29
will happen, but you know, just as a
13:31
thought experiment.
13:33
>> I still like uh calling them pervert
13:35
pods and then it would be pervate.
13:38
Purple
13:39
>> purple pot. Well, that there's some
13:41
speculation there might be a light on
13:43
them that to show when the the camera's
13:45
active.
13:46
>> But isn't this going to be like lights,
13:49
cameras, sound? I mean, you know, the
13:51
gyroscope. There's a lot of there's
13:53
there's a lot of power for little tiny
13:55
batteries
13:56
>> in these things. Maybe that'll be the
13:58
gate.
13:59
>> 20 minute, you know, battery gate.
14:01
[laughter]
14:02
>> Yeah. If you're constantly asking Siri
14:04
visual questions. Yeah. I I I I think
14:08
the culture the cultural context for all
14:10
of this is not yet settled. you know,
14:12
when when we had glass holes with the
14:16
Google Glass like I don't know 15 years
14:18
ago and then it it's sort of starting
14:21
again with like these Meta Creep glasses
14:24
and I I don't know where it's all going
14:26
to settle because there's obviously a
14:29
lot you know a lot of use to these
14:31
things and lots of people these meta
14:34
glasses are popular right so whether or
14:37
not the culture will change people get
14:39
more used to the idea and it will be
14:41
more tolerated ated or whether you know
14:44
culture will never quite adjust to this
14:46
and people using them will always be
14:48
perceived as social paras. I guess that
14:50
that's all to discover and I'm curious
14:52
to see how Apple's uh AirPods with
14:56
camera plays in the media and if this
14:59
thing that they can't take photos is
15:00
enough to assuage people's concern or if
15:03
the fact that it's still using AI maybe
15:06
to identify people for example is still
15:08
going to be perceived as a privacy
15:10
violation.
15:12
Well, a lot has changed, hasn't it, with
15:13
cameras and and the odd thing I think
15:15
people uh in the glass hole era, I think
15:20
people were afraid of like what you're
15:22
saying with flock right now, you know,
15:23
government surveillance, big brother,
15:26
but uh since then cameras have I think
15:29
cameras have much more turned out to be
15:31
a tool of
15:35
citizens using them, ordinary people to
15:37
record encounters with the police or,
15:40
you know, law enforcement.
15:42
Um,
15:44
>> the difference there is that we have the
15:45
I mean that's a camera in your pocket
15:46
that you can take out and use whereas uh
15:49
and you can also see when someone's
15:50
recording with a camera uh with a with a
15:53
phone because they're picking up and
15:54
holding it up. Whereas with the the
15:56
glasses or things built into wearables,
15:59
you you can't really tell if you're
16:01
being recorded.
16:02
>> Right. For sure. For sure.
16:03
>> I think that's I think that's the
16:04
difference and people that people, you
16:06
know, because it it really lets you do
16:07
things secretly. Uh, and and I think
16:11
that's the problem.
16:13
>> Definitely. Are you really freaked out
16:15
about him, Charlie?
16:16
>> I um I I'll wait and see what happens
16:18
cuz, you know, if anyone's going to do
16:20
it without causing too much privacy
16:23
trouble, it's going to be alcohol, but I
16:25
just don't think we need I mean, we
16:27
don't need cameras and everything. I
16:28
there's some you you came up with some
16:30
interesting like use cases for it, but
16:34
you know, is it worth it for the
16:37
downsides? I think there's a constant
16:39
push to put, you know, add new features
16:42
to stuff and it doesn't necessarily make
16:44
things better. Sometimes they do,
16:45
sometimes they don't. You know, AirPods,
16:47
I think AirPods are uh AirPods Pro
16:49
especially are one of Apple's best
16:50
products of uh recent years. I think
16:52
they're absolutely amazing. Apart from
16:54
the fact that you can't change the
16:54
battery in them, so they're disposable.
16:56
You know, it's a $200 $300 roughly
16:59
disposable item last you a few years and
17:02
if you the more you use it, the less it
17:03
lasts. Um,
17:05
>> I thought for a moment, Charlie Holly,
17:06
you were just going to say something
17:08
nice about an Apple product. [laughter]
17:10
>> Me too.
17:12
>> Not going to happen. Not going to
17:14
happen.
17:16
>> It didn't even last for like 3 seconds
17:18
either. Like one sentence and then it
17:20
was like a litany of complaints.
17:22
>> Well, just one complaint. Just the
17:23
batteries.
17:24
>> But but they're amazing and they keep
17:27
getting better. I mean, the the the jump
17:29
in sound quality between the three
17:30
different generations has been massive.
17:32
And also, you know, the noise
17:33
cancelling. So, they they're really
17:35
great. Uh, but I don't know if
17:39
I mean, why can't they just be really
17:41
really good headphones and your camera
17:43
in your phone can be a really good
17:44
camera? I don't know if you need to
17:46
stick like start uh crafting it up, you
17:50
know? It's like, oh no, we need to make
17:51
we need to make them we need to
17:53
differentiate them and add new features.
17:54
Okay, let's put cameras in. I don't know
17:56
if it's
17:57
>> Well, I think it's more than that. This
17:58
is a whole new kind of computing. I
18:00
mean, this is we're on the cusp of a of
18:02
a completely different world of of uh a
18:06
a completely new kind of computing.
18:08
Like, everyone's going to be talking to
18:09
their machines. The machines are going
18:10
to be talking back.
18:12
>> I mean,
18:13
they're not going to stop you. You know,
18:15
you can still buy a regular pair of
18:16
AirPods 3 Pro 3, right? And get that and
18:19
you don't have to get the camera ones.
18:20
So, you don't necessarily have to, you
18:22
know, participate in this. But, I think,
18:25
you know, we're going to see a whole new
18:27
way of doing things. I don't think
18:29
that's going to happen though. I I think
18:30
that the idea of of us just talking to
18:33
our things and AI voice AI assistants
18:35
doing everything for us. First, it's the
18:37
assistants
18:38
>> don't do things properly. They're not
18:40
very good. You know, they they get
18:42
anytime you ask them something, it's
18:44
wrong. And if if if it's in your field
18:47
of expertise, you can clearly see that
18:49
it's wrong. they like some of the tech
18:52
is good for you know like uh other
18:54
machine learning technology is good
18:55
categorizing photographs that you know
18:57
things that don't use LLMs
19:00
uh the using it to help with coding as
19:03
well it it seems to be a very useful
19:05
tool actually for LLMs but uh
19:09
the I don't think we're going to see it
19:11
I think that uh it's being hyped
19:14
massively hyped by the companies behind
19:16
it with with very little to show And you
19:20
know,
19:22
most of what they do can be done anyway
19:24
now, uh, without using so much energy
19:26
and without so many privacy concerns. I
19:29
mean, we don't want to get into the AI
19:30
thing now because I could go I could,
19:31
uh, annoy I I could say all of the
19:34
terrible stuff about that all day, but I
19:35
really don't think that's going to
19:35
happen. And I but I do think uh,
19:38
Leander, like you, I think probably the
19:39
PE people up in Apple think it is going
19:42
to happen. And
19:44
that might be why that they're making
19:46
these weird decisions and trying to cram
19:47
stuff into because, you know, into their
19:50
products that doesn't really need to be
19:51
there or shouldn't be there.
19:54
I, you know, I don't think that's true
19:56
anymore. I think AI has come like, you
19:58
know, it it's advancing so fast that
20:00
that that that that
20:02
perception that it's unreliable and
20:04
wrong all the time is is not right
20:07
anymore. I mean it's not right
20:10
uh all the time you know not everything
20:12
it gives you is accurate but it's got
20:14
has become a lot more reliable than it
20:16
used to be. Um and this is you know when
20:19
I say used to be this is 6 months ago.
20:21
Uh it's my wife I said the same thing
20:25
when I told her about these things these
20:26
cameras and airports she's like oh my
20:28
god do we really have to have cameras
20:29
everywhere
20:30
>> but at the same time um she's been she's
20:33
like an AI super fan like she has
20:36
completely changed the way that she uses
20:39
the web. She loves AI. She says AI is my
20:42
friend and she uses it for everything.
20:44
Um and she said like you know she loves
20:46
to go get an answer. She doesn't want to
20:48
go look at 10 links and look at websites
20:50
and try to figure out is this true? Is
20:52
that not true? And and and spend hours
20:53
researching stuff. The answer's right
20:55
there.
20:56
>> But the wrong answer.
20:58
>> Well, you know, like you said, I I think
21:01
you even if it's the right answer, you
21:02
don't know.
21:03
>> It might be, it might not be. You can't
21:05
trust it.
21:05
>> Well, she checks it out, you know.
21:06
>> Well, then you might as well do the work
21:07
in the first place.
21:09
>> Well, no. It it still makes it a lot
21:11
easier. It still makes it a lot quicker
21:12
a lot a you know it's it's a it's a lot
21:15
quicker way of working because you go oh
21:17
is that true you know like instead of
21:19
having to troll through all of this
21:21
information you get an answer and then
21:23
you go check out the answer it's way way
21:25
quicker and I mean yesterday she was
21:28
trying to write a review for something
21:30
and she was and and I spent she sent
21:32
this she she wrote something using AI
21:37
helping with AI helping her and then she
21:39
got me to to try to edit it. And I did
21:43
this, you know, it was okay. I'm a
21:45
professional editor, right? I've been
21:46
doing this for, you know, 30 something
21:47
odd years, trimmed it down. Um, she
21:51
wasn't happy with it. She fed it to an
21:52
AI and the AI did an amazing She just
21:54
said she and the prop was really stupid.
21:57
It was just make this shorter or or more
21:59
punchy
22:01
and the and it was depressing what came
22:03
back cuz it was so good. It was like
22:06
this is [clears throat] way way better
22:07
than I can do.
22:09
you've been John Henry.
22:12
Yeah,
22:14
>> I think they are fishly useful for so
22:16
many things and I I agree with what you
22:18
said earlier, Leander that they are
22:20
changing the technology industry in so
22:22
many different ways and yeah I I I think
22:25
to me these like admittedly weird
22:29
innovations like cameras and AirPods to
22:31
me it shows signs of life in Certino and
22:34
I I think they have to I mean obviously
22:37
they're at the top of their game but
22:39
companies become so successful and so
22:41
optim optimized in their success that
22:43
they can't evolve. And I think this
22:46
stuff I think it might be a time where
22:48
it actually is appropriate for Apple to
22:49
throw some stuff at the wall and see
22:51
what sticks. And so I I I don't know if
22:54
cameras and AirPods are the answer, but
22:56
I I think the fact that they're thinking
22:57
outside of the box is kind of what they
23:00
need to think like at a time like this
23:03
where everything is changing. We don't
23:05
know where everything is going to land.
23:07
But if Apple isn't part of that
23:08
discourse, then they will become
23:11
marginalized, however big they seem to
23:13
be now. And we've seen this happen time
23:15
and time again in the technology
23:17
industry. The big names of the 80s and
23:20
'9s barely exists in the industry
23:22
anymore, you know. And so, as big as a
23:25
company seems, that doesn't give it any
23:27
right to continue to exist as technology
23:30
moves forward. And and so I I I do think
23:34
these these leaks this week there's some
23:36
weird products and then we're going to
23:37
get into some more like you know we
23:39
should get on to them now in fact and I
23:42
to me it shows signs of life in Cutino
23:44
and I think that that it's a time where
23:46
that's necessary.
23:49
>> Yeah. Look at smart speakers like I
23:51
could never imagine going back to not
23:53
using a smart speaker.
23:55
Um
23:57
it's completely changed the way you you
23:58
you know you you listen to music you
24:00
know in the or or conjure music up or
24:02
you know the home part in the kitchen
24:04
and same is true for my wife and my
24:06
family you know like uh can you imagine
24:09
going back to an old pre like to an old
24:11
stereo
24:11
>> me and I think
24:13
>> that's what I use [laughter]
24:14
>> okay yeah
24:15
>> the answer is yes
24:18
>> I've got I have got a record player I
24:19
bought a record player a new record
24:20
player a couple of years ago use it all
24:22
the time and I'd recently turned over
24:26
the uh HomePod mini in the kitchen cuz I
24:28
kept touching it and I don't subscribe
24:29
to Apple Music anymore. I use Tidal for
24:32
streaming. Uh and I kept touching the
24:35
top of it. You know how that happens.
24:36
And it uh and it
24:37
>> No. How How were you How did you Were
24:39
you tripping over or something?
24:40
>> No. You know, the Home Mini's on the
24:42
worktop, so it's near the breadboard. I
24:44
don't know. You're just reaching around.
24:45
Sometimes you touch it when you're going
24:46
to go and pick up uh something. It's
24:48
just where it is in the kitchen. So
24:50
sometimes you your hand glances, you
24:52
know, touches the top and it activates
24:55
and it says, "Yeah, sure. I'll play
24:57
music." But because I'm not subscribed,
24:58
it just picks something at random. And
25:00
recently, it's just been choosing
25:02
country and western. It's like, "Oh,
25:03
yeah. I'm going to play the country and
25:04
western channel." It's like, "No, I
25:06
don't want that. I'm not not a country
25:08
fan." So, I've turned the the turned it
25:12
over so it's face down now. Uh, and so
25:15
you can't touch the top. So, it's just
25:18
used for uh I just is torturing you,
25:20
Charlie, on purpose. It
25:22
>> Yeah, I think it is. I think it knows.
25:25
You see, it's listening.
25:27
>> Yeah. I'm surprised you have one at all.
25:29
Haven't you Why haven't you put it in
25:31
the bread bin? Um I can't hear you.
25:36
>> Uh it's good for uh it's good for
25:38
listening to podcasts. You know, I just
25:39
wave my phone over it and and it it
25:41
plays the podcast in the kitchen
25:42
>> and it sounds great for it size.
25:46
>> Yeah. Yeah, it does. It does sound
25:47
great. It's a great product. The point I
25:48
was trying to make was like I think
25:49
smart speakers are sort of like at this
25:51
leading edge of this new kind of
25:52
computing, you know, where you're
25:53
talking to the talking to the damn
25:54
thing. And I think that's going to that
25:56
that is definitely clearly going to
25:58
happen where it's going to be like, you
25:59
know, the Star Trek computer orac from
26:02
Blake 7. Yeah.
26:03
>> Well, there's a reference.
26:05
>> Yeah. [laughter]
26:07
So, I I I it seems inevitable and I
26:10
think, you know, um AI has you remember
26:13
the the the Will Smith eating spaghetti
26:17
video? Yeah,
26:18
>> that was what two two three years ago
26:20
when it that was the capabilities of you
26:23
know video AI and now
26:27
the the quality is from a prompt from a
26:30
text prompt you can create video that is
26:34
that is completely realistic. It's it's
26:37
indistinguishable from well almost
26:39
indistinguishable from from real video
26:41
in a lot of cases. um that the that the
26:44
the advantages of are leaps and bounds
26:46
and it and it's weird weird stuff. If
26:48
you read this the papers coming out of
26:49
anthropic I mean they're talking about
26:51
now that they they think they've
26:53
detected consciousness in these LLMs or
26:55
something akin to consciousness.
26:57
>> No, that's a that's a marketing son.
26:59
That's just that's to hype it. That's to
27:00
keep to keep it up in the news all the
27:02
time and keep their share prices up
27:03
because otherwise everyone's going to
27:05
realize it's junk and you know they need
27:07
to keep pumping the bubble.
27:08
>> I I don't think that's true, Charlie. I
27:10
think you can we've seen it ourselves. I
27:11
think you can see it for yourself that
27:12
the evidence is right in front of your
27:13
eyes. You can see that it's advanced
27:15
incredibly
27:17
for and it's not junk anymore. It's a
27:19
really weird weird and amazingly
27:21
transformative technology. I mean it is
27:23
it's completely transformative. It's
27:24
transforming everything and it's only
27:26
accelerating
27:26
>> transforming the environ.
27:29
>> Well, sure. I don't I don't killing us.
27:32
>> Yeah, I I I agree. data centers, the
27:35
environmental usage, the the the the the
27:37
the job killing aspects of it, the
27:40
people who own it, um and control it. I
27:44
mean, there's a lot of stuff to
27:45
criticize, but the the from a you know,
27:48
just if you could isolate all that stuff
27:50
and you could just say, "Okay, I'm only
27:51
interested in the the the technological
27:53
capabilities."
27:54
>> You can't you can't isolate it. You
27:58
know, it's like if you if you had to
27:59
kick a puppy, if they kicked a puppy
28:01
every time you made an inquiry, it's
28:03
like, well, if you isolate the puppy
28:04
kicking aspect, then it's just fine.
28:07
[laughter]
28:07
>> Well, all right. That's what I'm trying
28:08
this is what I'm trying to do. This is
28:10
what I'm trying to do. I think from a
28:11
techical point of view, it's like it's
28:13
it's astonishing.
28:15
>> Yeah. I I think that there there are all
28:18
of those social and environmental issues
28:20
and they are very real and we're it's
28:22
not clear how they will play out or what
28:25
we should do about it. I don't think we
28:27
address those by saying something is not
28:30
useful when it is because that's that's
28:32
like
28:32
>> I don't find it useful though in the
28:34
room. We've got this handy thing but if
28:36
we use it too much we might destroy the
28:38
planet. So what do we do?
28:40
>> Well destroy the planet I guess. Why not
28:43
[laughter]
28:44
then at least you won't have to edit an
28:46
article.
28:49
[laughter]
28:49
>> Right.
28:50
Well, um, let's move on because this is
28:55
a it is a deep and and and and complex
28:58
>> Yeah, we kind of went off topic there
28:59
from from cameras, didn't we? But it's
29:03
>> Let's get back to Apple. Let's talk
29:05
about Let's talk about these unreleased
29:06
devices that uh Apple accidentally
29:08
leaked. Now, this is kind of crazy
29:09
because I don't think I've ever
29:11
Well, we can talk about this, too, but I
29:14
I don't know if Apple's done this
29:15
before. They they accidentally leaked 10
29:17
plus unreleased devices in uh the Mac OS
29:21
26.7 release candidate. And the weird
29:23
thing is this is not even the Golden
29:24
Gate beta, is it? This is just this is,
29:26
you know, the the update to the current
29:28
uh Mac OS. So, it seems like it' be a
29:31
really unlikely place to be having
29:33
references to all these uh these
29:35
different products that they're going to
29:36
be coming up uh in the next few months.
29:38
But the leak includes Apple's long rumor
29:40
at home hub. Um, and it includes details
29:43
of the widget gallery, which gives a lot
29:45
of clues about how this thing might
29:46
work. Um, a new HomePod mini, uh, an
29:49
Apple security camera, um, the the full
29:52
iPhone 18 lineup, iPhone Air 2, uh, and
29:55
of course, Apple's first foldable
29:57
iPhone. On the Mac side, there's
29:59
references to the MSU MacBook Pros and
30:01
iMacs, uh, included the rumored uh, OLED
30:04
touchscreen MacBook Pro. Uh, and there's
30:07
also the new OLED
30:09
iPad mini reportedly with an A19 Pro
30:12
chip. Um, and so this is like their this
30:17
is all the products for the at least
30:19
coming through next summer, I think. Um,
30:22
and actually the weird thing is that
30:24
they it we only really know about this
30:27
because of the reporting about the
30:28
rumors, isn't it? They what they found
30:29
is the code names and it was like um a
30:34
certain friend of ours who um we whose
30:36
name we will not mention because
30:38
otherwise um you know he'd been
30:41
reporting about all these different
30:42
devices and it was like oh that's this
30:44
is that one this is that the other one.
30:46
I think there was some references
30:47
weren't there quite a few references to
30:48
devices that no one has identified. I
30:51
think there was some code names that um
30:53
there was at least a handful of code
30:54
names that that that that haven't been
30:56
identified.
30:58
Um, so it's it's you know it's not clear
31:01
what what those might be, but um yeah,
31:05
the home hub I thought that was look
31:07
kind of interesting. It reminded me of
31:09
like when people repurpose an old iPad
31:10
and they stick it on the fridge and they
31:12
turn it into a weather station or they
31:15
have um a calendar, a family calendar
31:17
running on it. That's kind of what it
31:18
look like. This thing is going to run
31:20
with um widgets and there's like a
31:22
widget gallery for clocks and calendars
31:26
and uh and weather and stuff like that.
31:29
Uh and of course it's supposed to be
31:30
powered mostly by Siri AI. Uh so again
31:34
it's another machine, another device
31:35
that you'll you'll talk to, but it has a
31:37
screen to show you what's going on. Um I
31:40
kind of excited about that sort of even
31:42
though I don't have a a smart house at
31:44
all really.
31:46
You don't do you not have like the the
31:48
Philips lights and stuff or you know
31:50
smart lighting?
31:52
>> I got some dodgy old um smart bulbs but
31:56
they they don't really work. And in fact
31:57
my everyone hates them. My wife
31:59
especially she can't stand all the
32:00
different colors and stuff like that.
32:01
She's just like just make it you know
32:04
bright white. Um but I'm like it's mood
32:07
lighting you know doesn't it? It just
32:08
puts her in a bad mood. I was going to
32:10
say [laughter]
32:13
very effective.
32:16
[gasps]
32:16
>> I've got a smart lock um which is always
32:20
running out of batteries.
32:22
>> Are you using reusable batteries or I'm
32:24
sorry rechargeable batteries in it?
32:26
>> Yeah, that's probably
32:27
>> Yeah, you're not supposed to do that.
32:29
>> You use the alkaline ones.
32:31
>> Yeah.
32:33
>> Do they last a lot? I I did have some
32:35
alkaline ones, but then you know they
32:36
they didn't last very long either. Get
32:38
yourself some Durac cells. Yeah. Uh they
32:41
work they last a lot longer. And in
32:43
fact, I think the ones that I have say
32:44
don't use rechargeable batteries. Uh the
32:47
thing I find weird about this Home Hub,
32:49
and I I we've discussed this before on
32:51
the podcast. It's like, okay, well, I've
32:53
already got my phone with me 90% of the
32:55
time. I've got my watch with me 100% of
32:59
the time. I've got HomePods in my, you
33:03
know, rooms. So, like what really is
33:06
this going to do that any one of those
33:08
devices can't do? I I I've never heard
33:12
anybody really explain to me what I
33:14
mean, you know, might look nice. I I
33:16
suppose like the the one thing that has
33:18
ever come up is like, oh, well, it could
33:19
be a, you know, on your countertop and
33:21
you could, you know, look at a recipe or
33:23
watch a video while you're cooking or uh
33:26
whatever in your kitchen. But, um, I
33:28
don't know. Oh, so many of these things.
33:29
Like, if it's really just about
33:31
controlling the lights and the locks and
33:33
the this and the that, you know, I've
33:35
got a dozen ways to do that already. So,
33:38
it's I mean, I guess some people don't
33:40
have
33:40
>> Homes. In our house, we we we come to
33:42
rely on the on HomeKit for all of our
33:46
lighting to the point at which we've
33:48
even discussed taking out the light
33:49
switches so that you you just use
33:52
HomeKit. And the issue with this is if
33:55
you have guests and if you have guests
33:57
and they have Android then they they
34:00
have no way to turn the lights on and
34:02
off. If they have, you know, an Apple
34:04
device, then you can obviously add them
34:05
as a guest to HomeKit.
34:07
>> When I stayed over at Graham's, uh I did
34:09
have that problem. And they hadn't added
34:11
me to the HomeKit. Um which is probably
34:13
a good thing because I would trolled
34:14
them after I got home by by flashing the
34:16
lights and stuff. But uh maybe that's
34:19
why they didn't do it. But I had to uh I
34:22
had to call out I had to call out and
34:23
ask them to turn off the light in in the
34:25
in the room I was staying in at bedtime.
34:27
Please can you turn off the light?
34:30
>> I mean that's true, but I wonder how
34:32
much different uh you know the home hub
34:34
is actually going to be. You know it's
34:36
just like okay well
34:38
you they're still have to know how to
34:40
use that.
34:41
>> Well that's true. If if the main if the
34:43
default like home screen is like the
34:45
home app thing where you've got all of
34:47
the switches like right in front of you,
34:49
you know, before HomeKit, um people use
34:52
who had smartphones, they would usually
34:54
have like a digital panel on the wall
34:57
and that that would have all the light
34:59
switches and some touch interface and
35:01
this I guess would is the modern
35:03
equivalent of that. Um and so I I can
35:08
for sure see a role for it. The other
35:10
thing people used to talk about the
35:12
rumors a year or so ago and this maybe
35:14
dovetales into the Apple security camera
35:16
thing that it would recognize the
35:18
residence of the house and it could have
35:21
for example different lighting schemes
35:23
for different people so that if you walk
35:25
into a room it doesn't just turn the
35:27
lights on but adjust them to your
35:30
preference at a particular time of day.
35:32
And so you know there's all those kinds
35:34
of things it could do too. The one of
35:36
the other thing that's that's bothered
35:37
me a bit over the years with with
35:39
HomeKit is in that classic Apple way
35:42
they try to make all the technology go
35:44
away so it just works. And it kind of
35:47
does but it uses one of the things it
35:50
does is it will choose whether your
35:51
Apple TV or your HomePod or whatever is
35:56
the base station and you don't have much
35:58
say in that. And I I I think there is an
36:01
argument to have a piece of hardware
36:03
which is the hub which your whole kit
36:06
setup runs off of and this is
36:08
potentially that. And I think maybe once
36:10
they have
36:12
you know something which this is your
36:14
designated HomeKit hub that maybe opens
36:18
opens up other things and makes makes
36:20
other things a bit easier to implement.
36:23
>> Isn't that probably it most um key
36:25
function being the hub? because, you
36:27
know, right now you you have to use a
36:28
Home Pod or an Apple TV
36:32
um as a hub. Uh this this would be a hub
36:35
if you didn't have either of those
36:36
devices. And um isn't that wouldn't that
36:40
be a kind of core function?
36:42
>> I think so. Yeah.
36:43
>> As well as the interface for it.
36:45
>> Yeah. And then it it's got the UI. So,
36:48
even if you're a a guest in someone
36:50
else's house, you you you you could you
36:52
could set this up so guests have access
36:54
to do basic things like turn lights on
36:56
and off and stuff like that.
36:59
>> It could recognize Charlie and start
37:00
playing country and western.
37:02
>> You could recognize Charlie and make
37:03
sure he has no access to do anything.
37:05
>> Yeah, that's probably best. I mean, what
37:07
I get by with the light switches on the
37:09
wall when I want to turn the light on, I
37:10
press the light switch and it it works
37:11
100% of the time.
37:13
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, what
37:16
any do you have smart blinds and stuff
37:18
like that? Um, ground cuz that was one
37:20
of the things to me is like what do I,
37:21
you know, I don't I'm not really sure I
37:22
want smart bulbs or the the door is
37:25
definitely convenient and kind of
37:27
helpful, but I'm not sure what other
37:29
smart devices I need around the house.
37:31
>> I mean, we use security cameras which
37:33
are HomeKit compatible as well. I find
37:36
that reassuring when I'm not not at home
37:38
that I can still kind of look at HomeKit
37:41
and and see that everything's okay.
37:44
see what Charlie's doing.
37:46
[laughter]
37:50
>> One of the things though that I would
37:52
say is I feel really bad for whoever the
37:54
developer was who pushed all this out to
37:56
production. Like I guess they're
37:58
probably out of work now, right? They're
37:59
having a really crappy week.
38:03
>> Yeah. I don't know. It makes me think of
38:05
the the guy that left the iPhone um at
38:07
the bar that Gizmodo got hold of, but he
38:10
never got fired. You know, they they
38:11
were actually quite forgiving. He he uh
38:13
he was still working at Apple, you know,
38:15
for several years, I believe. Um after
38:17
that, I think um but yeah, it it
38:20
someone's going to be
38:23
uh you know, I bet
38:25
>> having a tough week.
38:26
>> Yeah.
38:29
>> Imagine the sinking feeling when you see
38:31
the story on the blogs and you realize,
38:33
oh, I did that.
38:37
>> And at first, you're probably thinking,
38:39
I didn't do that, did I? and then you
38:40
look at you get commits and then you
38:43
realize yeah I did do that. [laughter]
38:46
>> Well then there's some people are saying
38:47
like oh it's it's uh you know marketing
38:50
strategy you know Apple does this just
38:52
so you know to whip up a storm about it.
38:56
Maybe you could say that I was trying to
38:58
get people excited.
39:02
[laughter]
39:03
>> Well definitely I mean it it's it's uh
39:05
what do they call it? Um uh Earn Media.
39:08
It's it's um it was like when the iPhone
39:11
before uh when when Jobs announced it at
39:14
Macworld and um you know before it came
39:16
out there was like I think they said it
39:17
was like $400 million worth of media
39:19
they got out of that or advertising that
39:22
was the estimate at the time. Yeah, they
39:24
for sure get a you know I doubt they use
39:27
it as a marketing strategy though. Do
39:29
you like a conscious marketing strategy?
39:31
I I can't believe that.
39:34
Well, they definitely know that people
39:36
are all over these betas and are
39:38
decompiling them and looking for any
39:41
Easter eggs. So, I mean,
39:45
it's possible. I I doubt it. Um, but I
39:48
could sort of imagine it would be very
39:50
sneaky of them if, for example, they
39:53
there was some other news story they
39:56
wanted to quash. Um, and I'm just trying
39:59
to think this week if there was some
40:01
something else. So I don't think
40:02
particularly there there was anything
40:03
but if they if there was a new cycle
40:05
they wanted to steer and like steer on
40:07
to look at Apple's amazing road map this
40:09
will be a rather clever way of doing it.
40:12
>> Yeah. Yeah.
40:14
All right. Let's talk about uh a rumor
40:16
about the iPhone 18 Pro Max which says
40:18
that it might get a big camera gaze that
40:20
the regular pro lacks. Do you want to
40:23
tell us about this one Charlie?
40:24
>> Yeah sure. So the uh iPhone 18 Pro Max
40:26
could get a variable aperture main
40:28
camera. Uh but the smaller iPhone 18 Pro
40:32
will not be getting that which is not
40:34
unprecedented. They've uh Apple has put
40:37
uh big uh I think was it image
40:39
stabilization uh uh in a a max sized
40:44
phone before and the smaller ones didn't
40:46
get it. Uh sometimes well yeah it's just
40:48
because there's more space for these
40:50
things sometimes. Uh their variable
40:53
aperture uh will well variable cameras.
40:57
Okay. Phone cameras now have a variable
40:59
shutter speed. Uh regular cameras also
41:01
have a variable aperture which is the
41:03
hole that the light comes through. And
41:05
you know bigger hole more light and a
41:07
small hole less light. Uh usually the
41:10
camera the uh a phone camera only
41:13
changes its exposure by changing the ISO
41:16
which is the sensitivity of the uh
41:19
sensor to light uh and changing the
41:22
shutter speed which is the amount of
41:23
time the shutter's open. So that you
41:25
know that's how much light gets in
41:26
there. Uh the aperture is uh handy in
41:31
cameras because the changing the size
41:32
also okay a big aperture gives you a
41:35
blurred background and a small aperture
41:37
gives you sharp from front to back. Uh
41:41
in a phone that's not going to make that
41:45
much difference because an avariable
41:47
aperture is actually only going to mean
41:50
it can get smaller. it's not going to be
41:51
able to get bigger than it already is
41:53
because they've, you know, they already
41:54
make them. They already have the maximum
41:57
size for maximum light gathering uh
41:59
capabilities.
42:01
Uh so it's not going to actually give
42:03
you more blurred in the background, but
42:05
it could give you less of a blur in the
42:07
background. But again, that's not really
42:09
a problem we have with phone cameras.
42:10
you know, it's like, oh, the there's you
42:13
the phone camera pictures are pretty
42:15
much shut from front to back to the
42:17
extent that we have uh portrait mode,
42:19
which is a pretty neat mode. And I, you
42:22
know, there's equivalent Android as
42:24
well, which uh uh you know, uses
42:27
trickery, computational photography to
42:29
blur the background, to make it look
42:31
like to make the subject pop out. Uh so
42:34
yeah, the in the rest of the news, the
42:39
uh where are we? Oh yeah, the optical
42:40
zoom. That was it. The iPhone 15 Pro Max
42:42
got the uh five times optical zoom a
42:45
year before it came to the smaller Pro.
42:47
Um
42:49
so the Pro Max might also get a six
42:51
times optical zoom. Uh that's
42:55
apparently that part of the room is less
42:57
certain. Uh yeah, but they will be
43:00
that'll be next month uh when the phone
43:02
when the next iPhone's coming out. I
43:04
don't know. What do we think about that?
43:08
Yeah, [laughter] right. Exactly. Yeah,
43:10
I've got I've got a regular pro and uh
43:13
yeah, it's a bummer. I kind of like I
43:15
would like to get this, but after you
43:16
explained, you know, maybe it's not
43:18
going to be that an amazing difference.
43:20
So, now I'm sort of less excited about
43:22
it.
43:22
>> Yeah, I don't think it's going to
43:23
>> be less bummed about it.
43:24
>> Yeah, I don't think it's going to I
43:26
mean, the physics of it, everything's so
43:27
small in there that it's uh it's not
43:29
going to make that much difference. Um
43:32
the the difference it would make is that
43:34
you could cut out the light by making a
43:36
smaller aperture which would mean that
43:38
you could uh have um slower shutter
43:41
speeds in brighter light which would
43:43
mean you could do like blur effects if
43:46
you wanted to. I guess I don't know if
43:48
that would be particularly useful. Maybe
43:50
I mean maybe there's other stuff that
43:52
I'm missing, but in you know having an
43:55
adjustable aperture in a big camera
43:57
makes a lot of sense, you know, really
43:59
makes a big difference. But in a in a
44:01
phone, I don't know, maybe there's maybe
44:05
there's another part to this rumor that
44:06
we we we don't know about yet that's
44:08
going to make a difference.
44:10
I think in general with cameras on
44:12
iPhones, there's some people that get
44:14
really into the
44:17
into all the kind of camera geekery and
44:20
they really care about all of this
44:21
stuff. But I genuinely believe that the
44:24
vast majority of iPhone users just like
44:27
point their camera at the thing they
44:28
want to photograph and push the button
44:30
and that's it. and then they will then
44:32
look at the photo afterwards and they
44:34
will be pleased with it or disappointed,
44:36
but they sort of expect Apple to work
44:38
everything out for them and they don't
44:40
care.
44:42
It's that attitude of I'll know if it's
44:44
right when I see it. And so Apple is
44:47
trying to sort of anticipate what
44:48
someone intended to happen when you
44:50
point the camera at something. And I
44:53
think by and large over the years
44:54
they've got quite good at that because
44:57
people generally don't grumble about the
44:59
photos their cameras take. Um so I I
45:02
figure with this it's I I see where
45:05
you're coming from with this Charlie,
45:07
but I think Apple must have even if you
45:10
never change the aperture yourself, I
45:13
reckon Apple software will be using this
45:15
in some way um smartly to kind of
45:18
anticipate what users want. And so I I
45:22
think there must be some benefit to it
45:24
or they wouldn't do it. But that said,
45:27
haven't they recently just got rid of
45:29
cinema mode? So they do introduce these
45:31
like camera geekery things and then no
45:34
one understands what they're going on
45:36
about and then they scrap it again. So
45:38
it could be one of those. I I agree that
45:40
it's it's likely to be an automatic
45:42
thing because I mean uh and and unless
45:45
it's roll, you know, it's it's gonna
45:47
they probably won't have a uh a way to
45:50
change the aperture. It won't there
45:51
won't be a control for that. It will be
45:52
part of another mode, you know, part of
45:54
portrait mode if it does make a
45:55
difference, you know, something like
45:57
this. And yeah, like you say, it's going
45:59
to be something automatic. But I I do
46:00
wonder what is what's the point. I mean
46:03
just behind the scenes before you get to
46:05
the user facing part of it what
46:07
difference it will actually make uh you
46:10
know cuz obviously there's got to be
46:12
some difference otherwise they're not
46:13
going to be putting it in there
46:14
especially as it's you know it's
46:17
maybe big or battery heavy or something
46:20
like this and which is why they're
46:22
putting in a bigger phone first.
46:24
Um
46:25
>> well the the rumor is going to get a
46:27
massive battery, isn't it? the biggest
46:29
battery that ever seen ever been put in
46:30
an iPhone. And I was surprised actually
46:33
how popular that the iPhone Max is cuz
46:35
we did a a poll earlier this week and
46:37
asking people what models they were
46:40
interested in getting and and um the
46:42
iPhone Pro Max came iPhone 18 Pro Max
46:46
was by far the most popular one. Um and
46:50
the things, you know, so I was surprised
46:53
by that. I thought I thought the regular
46:54
Pro would be would be more popular. In
46:56
fact, I thought the Pro Max was kind of
46:58
niche, but it's very, very popular.
47:01
>> Louis, you were shaking your head there.
47:02
You're not a believer in max sizes.
47:04
>> You know, I that 15 Pro Max was the last
47:07
time I fell for it. I bought that
47:09
because I wanted that uh you know,
47:11
better camera. And I just all year I'm
47:14
walking around with this thing the size
47:16
of a a baking sheet in my pocket. And uh
47:19
I just I just didn't like it. I didn't
47:22
like it the whole time. It always
47:24
everything that I did with my phone was
47:26
clunkier. It's heavier. Everything. So,
47:28
no. I And I I really don't like it when
47:30
they don't have the same features. It It
47:32
bums me out because I I'm I'm just not
47:35
going to do that again. It's those
47:37
phones are too big. And this like you
47:39
were saying, they're supposedly going to
47:40
have a bigger battery. That would be
47:42
awesome. But that same rumor said they
47:44
could be like 2 mm thicker. My god.
47:49
If that's true, are you serious? I know.
47:51
When I had one, I used to pull my pants
47:53
down. In fact, one time I was out
47:54
walking, my pants fell down my ankles.
47:56
It was really embarrassing.
47:58
>> Are you sure that was the phone?
48:00
>> Well, [laughter] it was they um they are
48:04
too big, but it's uh it's way way too
48:06
big. But and and talk about the lineup
48:08
and all the different features. My god,
48:10
it's never it's going to be really
48:11
confusing, isn't it? Because you've got
48:12
the folding iPhone, the Max, the Pro,
48:15
the regular, the E. Um it's it's crazy.
48:19
Uh, how many different models are there?
48:21
Five,
48:24
something like that. Um, and then you've
48:27
got the the, you know, you got to choose
48:29
the storage size and oh, it's almost
48:31
like looking at a Mac with all the
48:32
different combinations of the different
48:33
CPUs and choosing how many GPUs you want
48:36
and cores and all that kind of stuff.
48:38
It's like, oh, you know, please, this is
48:41
just too much for me.
48:42
>> It's funny with uh with Apple Silicon,
48:44
the Macs actually got simpler. You don't
48:45
have all those choices anymore and the
48:46
phone's getting more complicated.
48:49
>> [laughter]
48:49
>> Yeah, I'd like to go back to a Mini like
48:51
you, Charlie. I like the Mini.
48:54
>> I need to change the battery, but
48:55
[clears throat] it's uh Yeah, I still
48:57
love it. I mean, and it's You know what?
48:59
It's never pulled my trousers down.
49:03
[laughter]
49:05
>> All right, let's talk about um Graeme's
49:07
getting his app ready for OS 27 next
49:11
month.
49:12
>> Right. Yeah, I just wanted to give you a
49:14
little update on this. So, uh, you know,
49:15
as I mentioned earlier in the show, I
49:17
develop a a strength training app called
49:18
Reps and Sets. And, uh, this is a time
49:22
of year where every developer I know
49:25
gets really, really busy because
49:27
everyone is getting ready for September
49:28
when the new versions of Apple's
49:30
operating systems come out. And so
49:33
there's a huge amount of pressure in
49:34
this window from WWDC
49:37
to September where all these betas come
49:39
out and everyone is in a tail spin
49:43
trying to get their apps ready for
49:45
September. Last year was I guess
49:48
particularly bad because with uh iOS 26
49:52
we got uh liquid glass and that was a
49:54
very big change in the way that the user
49:57
interface worked and so there was lots
49:58
of work to do there. this year, you
50:01
know, we've got the sort of snow leopard
50:03
cycle, so the changes are less
50:06
substantial. Um, in fact, the way that
50:09
it works is if you have an app and
50:10
you've developed it for a previous
50:12
version of the OS, you download the new
50:14
version of Xcode and you install the
50:17
beta on your iPhone or whatever you're
50:18
developing on and then you compile from
50:21
the new Xcode to the new hardware and
50:24
you pray that you're not going to get
50:26
too many warnings or compilation errors.
50:28
Um, because that's going to tell you how
50:30
much work you're going to have to do
50:31
this summer. And for me it's been that's
50:34
been quite a breeze actually because I I
50:36
redeveloped the whole app last year from
50:38
scratch. Um it's a sort of 26 native no
50:42
legacy app. There wasn't much to do to
50:46
adapt it to the 27 OSS. But what Apple
50:50
has been really stressing to developers
50:52
and you know in all of their
50:53
communication with developers is these
50:55
two things they want which is they want
50:58
apps to support Siri AI and they want
51:00
iPhone apps to have resizable displays
51:04
and um the the Siri AI thing is
51:08
I mean honestly I find it a bit boring
51:10
so I'm not not going to dwell on that
51:12
but it's like all kinds of stuff you
51:14
have to do so that Siri can see what's
51:17
in your app and
51:19
>> app intense. Yeah.
51:20
>> Yeah. All the app intense stuff. So, you
51:22
know, in my app, it's a workout app. So,
51:24
you've got workouts, you've got
51:25
exercises,
51:27
uh you've got workout templates. And so,
51:30
Siri needs to be able to see all of that
51:32
stuff. And so, it needs to be indexed by
51:34
Spotlight. And so, there's a world of
51:36
stuff you have to do to create these
51:38
intents. And they have this thing called
51:39
schemas as well for different app types
51:42
that you have to, you know, surface
51:45
stuff in your app so that Siri can
51:46
control it. So, there's all of that. The
51:50
bit that I think is more interesting uh
51:52
for our purposes is the resizable
51:54
displays. So, this is really strange
51:56
because an iPhone obviously doesn't have
51:58
a resizable display and yet the the
52:02
people from Apple are saying, you know,
52:04
they really want you to support this.
52:06
And the way that it works is if you're
52:09
in Xcode, you can compile your app to
52:12
run on a simulator, right? So, it's like
52:13
a simulated iPhone on your Mac. And
52:16
always in the past, you compiled it to a
52:19
particular hardware setup. So you'd say,
52:22
I I'm going to run this on a uh an
52:25
iPhone 17 Pro Max, and then it would run
52:28
on that display size. But with the with
52:31
the new Xcode 27 with its device hub
52:34
that it's introduced, there's this
52:35
resizable button you can click when
52:37
you're running an iPhone simulator where
52:40
you can then drag the corner of the
52:41
screen and change it to other predefined
52:44
sizes. And um Apple partic particularly
52:48
wants you to support the really big size
52:50
which is uh 128x 960 pixels which is
52:55
sorry uh 1,280 by 960 pixels and that's
53:00
actually sxga
53:02
which is a you know a high definition
53:04
screen uh a standard format which no
53:08
iPhone has. So, it's quite interesting
53:10
that they want iPhone software to work
53:11
on this gigantic 4x3 screen.
53:15
>> What could it be?
53:16
>> What could it possibly be? And you know,
53:19
so I' I've been working on that this
53:20
week. And one of the interesting things
53:22
I found is iPhone does support the
53:25
sidebar like iPad has. And it's true to
53:29
say that iPad OS and iOS are essentially
53:32
the same operating system. Um it's not
53:36
like you know vision OS or Mac OS are
53:38
different operating systems but iOS is
53:41
one operating system that still
53:42
effectively runs on iPads as well as on
53:44
iPhones but there are two different
53:47
idioms within it. One is the iPad one
53:49
and the other one is the iPhone one. And
53:52
the way in which things are presented on
53:53
the screen varies depending upon which
53:56
idiom you're in. So, one of the gotchas
53:59
that I found playing around this week,
54:00
which I thought was interesting with
54:02
rumors of the folding iPhone is that the
54:05
sidebar on iPhone is not exactly the
54:07
same as the sidebar on iPad. Yes, it has
54:10
one and superficially it looks the same,
54:12
but it's not the same. And so, I've
54:14
actually had to do a bunch of work this
54:16
week in creating something as close to
54:19
my iPad sidebar as I can with the more
54:22
basic iPhone sidebar. And uh so I wanted
54:27
to share that because I one of the
54:28
things I've seen lots of people in the
54:30
rumors saying is oh you know this
54:32
foldable iPhone will have a bigger
54:34
screen check and that means it will be
54:36
able to run iPad software as well as
54:38
iPhone software
54:40
>> and that that bit I'm not so sure about.
54:42
I think it's going to run obviously it's
54:44
going to run our iOS but I think it's
54:46
going to declare itself as being an
54:48
iPhone not an iPad and that means that
54:51
it's going to get the iPhone idiom not
54:53
the iPad idiom. Um, and I'm I'm
54:55
convinced of this because otherwise
54:59
Apple wouldn't care about resizable
55:00
iPhones. They in their simulator, they
55:03
would say, "Sure, as long as it works on
55:04
iPad and it works on on iPhone, that's
55:06
fine." They specifically want us to
55:09
develop this
55:11
1280x 960 screen for iPhone. And
55:17
>> so, you're squashing that rumor that
55:19
it's going to run iPad OS when it's
55:20
folded out, which is what a lot of
55:22
people think.
55:23
>> It's not. Yeah, it's going to be a
55:24
gigantic iPhone which is going to be
55:26
very similar. Um, there's not a lot of
55:28
work to do, especially in my case
55:30
because I built it all last year. It's
55:31
Swift UI, so that's very crossplatform.
55:34
And there's this other thing you have
55:36
called uh size classes or horizontal
55:38
size classes and an iPhone typically is
55:42
compact and an iPad is regular. And one
55:45
of the things you'll see if you have
55:46
resizable windows on an iPad is, you
55:48
know, if you if you size the window down
55:50
on a big iPad, at some point it will get
55:53
so small that it sort of switches to the
55:55
iPhone layout. And that's because you've
55:58
got small enough that it's become the
55:59
compact size class. And so as well as
56:02
the iPhone and iPad idiom, you also have
56:05
this size class thing. And so you've got
56:08
two different things going on. And so I
56:11
I think that the the apps that run on a
56:16
a folding iPhone will look a fair amount
56:20
like the iPad apps, but confusingly they
56:23
won't be exactly the same. And
56:25
developers have to do some work to get
56:28
their apps looking close to the iPad
56:30
experience on an iPhone with a gigantic
56:33
screen. H
56:34
>> how much work is it, Graeme? But you
56:36
said you I guess it wasn't because you'd
56:39
already adapted your phone with all the
56:41
modern Apple frameworks that it it
56:43
wasn't that much work. But
56:44
>> I Yeah, I I think that makes it much
56:46
easier for me because it's a new app. I
56:48
think if you if you used the the free
56:52
Swift UI stuff uh with UI Kit, then it
56:56
it's probably more work to do. Um, but
56:58
the other thing I would say is that
57:00
useless technology people are going on
57:01
about these days, AI is incredibly
57:04
helpful here. And one of the really
57:07
great things this week is I used to use,
57:10
well, I still use cursor um, for my VIP
57:13
coding, but I was having some trouble.
57:16
The issue that you have is these models,
57:18
they don't have awareness of all the
57:20
latest uh, Apple technologies. So if
57:23
you're trying to do things specifically
57:25
for iOS 27 then then the agents don't
57:29
always know everything they need to
57:30
know. Whereas uh Xcode 27 has this thing
57:33
called Xcode skills. And so if you run
57:37
you know uh codeex the GPT um agent
57:42
within Xcode then it can look up all of
57:45
this stuff with Xcode skills. And this
57:48
is a real gamecher and it is one of the
57:51
things that Apple tells developers to do
57:53
to use this. So I thought I'll give it a
57:55
try. And you know it basically you can
57:58
say look at my app look up adaptability
58:03
like what my app should be doing to work
58:05
with these new iPhone screen sizes and
58:07
do it. And it it didn't get everything
58:11
right but it got very very close to to
58:14
perfect very quickly. And it's certainly
58:17
it's that other thing is you know it's
58:19
the difference between googling
58:20
something and going through loads of
58:21
articles to figure out what you should
58:24
do versus asking an agent and it gives
58:27
you an answer. And as Charlie said
58:29
sometimes it's not the right answer but
58:30
it gives you an answer. The great thing
58:32
with software development is like great
58:35
let's try that and then you'll find out
58:36
if it works very quickly. The answer was
58:39
wrong then you you try something else
58:42
but you know uh it's often right. And so
58:46
I can't really grumble because uh I was
58:49
lucky on two counts. My app has a fairly
58:51
modern UI code and running codeex in
58:56
Xcode 27
58:58
solved so much of this for me. I really
59:00
didn't need to think about much. There
59:02
was one thing, one really dumb thing
59:04
that it got wrong. the uh there's this
59:07
thing called segmented uh controls where
59:10
like a picker where you like have a
59:12
tabbed control and in iOS 27 it becomes
59:15
much bigger and I spent ages trying to
59:18
get it back to the size it was supposed
59:19
to be and I I was using claw and cursor
59:22
it took half an hour and got nowhere and
59:26
I was pulling my hair out I thought I
59:28
need to create a bespoke component
59:30
instead and uh then
59:33
with uh Xcode skill I found out it was
59:36
just one line of code I needed to add to
59:38
declare that this was a small segmented
59:42
control. And there's a particular line
59:43
of code in in in Swift UI that did that.
59:46
And you know, if I'd only use Xcode 27
59:49
to begin with, you know, I would have
59:51
saved myself a lot of time. So there's
59:54
lots of work. Um, and also some
59:57
developers won't touch coding agents.
59:59
They don't want coding agents to mess
1:00:01
with their code. And so for them, it's
1:00:03
going to be a lot more work as well. So
1:00:06
I what I would say from my experience
1:00:08
this week is people who are if if the I
1:00:12
lots of ifs but supposing the iPhone
1:00:15
ultra or foldable comes out next month
1:00:18
um I think all of Apple's apps will
1:00:20
obviously look brilliant on it and it's
1:00:22
going to take some third party
1:00:23
developers I suspect a while to get
1:00:26
their apps looking really good on it
1:00:28
because it's not an iPad it's something
1:00:30
new.
1:00:32
>> I see nothing. Oh, and my social feeds
1:00:34
are full of um the Samsung one. People
1:00:37
loving on that thing. Like nothing but
1:00:40
absolutely joyous stuff. People showing
1:00:43
it. I saw a really good one where
1:00:45
someone's reading a comic book and they
1:00:46
have that page curl and then um you can
1:00:50
click on the captions in a comic book to
1:00:53
get a bigger version. It pops up so you
1:00:55
can see it clearly. And it was like,
1:00:57
"Oh, wow. That really looks amazing."
1:00:59
Um, someone else was playing a game I
1:01:01
think um, while they were also doing
1:01:03
something. They were vibe coding or
1:01:05
something crazy. Um, the thing is
1:01:08
propped on the desk. I mean, people are
1:01:10
absolutely going crazy. And then
1:01:11
Samsung, I think, didn't they order
1:01:13
another several million units. This has
1:01:15
been by far their most popular folding
1:01:18
um, model. Uh, I think it's going to be
1:01:21
a big hit.
1:01:23
Yeah, I like I like so I always liked
1:01:26
folding phones back before they were
1:01:27
smartphones. There have been so many
1:01:29
problems with like tech I mean the when
1:01:32
the phones first came out folding
1:01:34
smartphones those screens weren't very
1:01:36
good and there were all kinds of
1:01:37
problems but they really seem to be
1:01:38
getting good now. So it makes me think
1:01:40
and and you know and Apple doesn't enter
1:01:41
into anything unless it could do it
1:01:42
properly. So
1:01:44
>> quite excited by this this thing coming
1:01:47
out. I was I was a doubter at first, but
1:01:51
having been thinking about it all week,
1:01:53
it's just got me more excited. And I
1:01:54
think now I probably will be tempted
1:01:56
into buying one.
1:02:01
>> Lewis, you look doubtful.
1:02:03
>> Oh, no. I I I'm sure you'll buy one.
1:02:06
[laughter]
1:02:09
[gasps]
1:02:10
I
1:02:10
>> go for the Apple program.
1:02:13
[laughter]
1:02:15
>> Be very interested to see just how big
1:02:16
this thing is.
1:02:19
right?
1:02:19
>> If it actually if it somehow comes off
1:02:21
seeming like
1:02:23
>> an iPhone mini so that it's like oh it's
1:02:26
smaller and you know but it's just not
1:02:28
going to be that is it. It's going to be
1:02:30
it's going to be like you know like you
1:02:33
Leander said it's going to you know you
1:02:34
put it in your back pocket and walk down
1:02:36
the street in shame. [laughter]
1:02:39
>> You'll be shuffling won't you like
1:02:41
you've got shackles on.
1:02:42
>> It's going to be taking Leander's pants
1:02:44
down again.
1:02:47
I don't know which one to get. Like I I
1:02:49
was kind of tempted by the iPhone Air.
1:02:50
Is anyone Is anyone interested in the
1:02:51
iPhone Air? That that was really uh
1:02:54
attracting me
1:02:55
>> cuz I don't need the fancy cameras
1:02:57
anymore and I don't need the bigger
1:02:59
screen. Um
1:03:01
>> technically, do you need a new phone?
1:03:03
No. The answer is no.
1:03:05
>> No. Exactly. That's true, too. I don't
1:03:06
really need a new phone at all.
1:03:08
>> Maybe you could pick up a secondhand uh
1:03:10
12 mini or a 13 mini, you know, go Lux.
1:03:16
How much are they going for? They're
1:03:17
probably pretty cheap, aren't they?
1:03:18
>> Probably. Yeah.
1:03:21
>> All right, I think we should wrap it up
1:03:22
there. Um I unfortunately I won't be
1:03:24
able to do my demo again this week
1:03:26
because I forgot to bring I brought the
1:03:28
camera, but I didn't bring the charger,
1:03:30
the wireless charger. And I thought I
1:03:32
had one at the office, but it's actually
1:03:33
not it's it's not going to work. Um so
1:03:36
my life my my life changing tip about
1:03:39
charging your AirPods. We'll have to
1:03:40
wait for another one.
1:03:41
>> Tricks can't be done.
1:03:42
>> I don't believe there is a tip. I think
1:03:44
you're stringing us along with this
1:03:45
rotating AirPods [laughter]
1:03:47
tip.
1:03:48
>> How long can I keep it going? Well,
1:03:49
we'll see you next week.
1:03:52
>> But if anyone has any questions, please
1:03:53
send your questions or texts or or audio
1:03:56
or video message to cult of
1:03:57
podcastloud.com.
1:03:59
That's cult of [email protected].
1:04:01
So, I think that's a wrap. Please give
1:04:03
us um your fivestar rating or review in
1:04:05
Apple Podcast and share this uh this
1:04:07
podcast with anybody you think you might
1:04:08
like to listen to this. Um so, uh thanks
1:04:11
for listening. Thanks for watching and
1:04:13
we'll see you guys all next time. Bye
1:04:16
>> bye. See you.
Science