Up next in 10
In this week's episode:
* There’s a new broom in Cupertino. As John Ternus takes the reins from Tim Cook, we’ll discuss whether he’ll make sweeping changes, and how he’ll solve the innovator’s dilemma.
* Plus, the latest rumors for what Ternus is expected to unveil at Apple’s Surprise And Shine event next week.
* iPhone 18 Pro vs. iPhone 17 Pro: The biggest rumored changes.
* Folding iPhone won’t support Apple Pencil but it will get MagSafe.
* Apple Watch Series 12 rumors: Everything we know so far.
* Apple Watch Ultra 4 rumors.
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Hello. Uh, there's a new broom in
0:03
Certino. As John Tennis takes the reigns
0:04
from Tin Cook, we'll discuss whether
0:06
he'll make sweeping changes and how
0:08
he'll solve the innovators dilemma.
0:11
Plus, we'll take a look at all the
0:12
latest rumors for what Tennis is
0:14
expected to unveil at Apple's surprise
0:16
and shine event next week. Welcome to
0:19
the Cult podcast. I'm your host Ner
0:20
Kenny. Joining me today are Lewis
0:22
Wallace and Graeme Bower. Hi, guys.
0:24
>> Oh. Hi. Hello.
0:26
>> Hey. So, no Charlie this week. Charlie's
0:28
on a eight-month vacation. He'll be back
0:30
in January, I guess. [laughter] He lives
0:32
in Spain, of course. So, uh, we'll see.
0:35
He's in a What did he say? Was he went
0:36
to some casita in the mountains?
0:38
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, on the coast. Costa
0:40
Bravo.
0:41
>> Very nice.
0:42
>> Lovely up there. Jeez, it really
0:44
>> got his address. [laughter]
0:47
>> Yeah, we'll go visit him. All right,
0:50
let's talk about um John Tennis. He
0:51
faces this classic dilemma as he takes
0:53
over as Apple CEO. Um, John has
0:56
officially taken over as Apple CEO,
0:58
succeeding Tim Cook after a 15-year run.
1:00
Cook remains at Apple as executive
1:03
chairman with a particular role in
1:05
dealing with policy makers worldwide.
1:07
Uh, Turners faces the classic innovators
1:09
dilemma. Does he protect Apple's hugely
1:11
profitable existing products or
1:13
aggressively develop new technologies
1:15
that could ultimately replace them?
1:16
Steve Jobs famously believed that Apple
1:18
should cannibalize itself before
1:21
competitors did. Unlike operations
1:23
specialist Cook, Turnis is fundamentally
1:25
a product and a hardware guy. During 25
1:27
years at Apple, he worked across iPhone,
1:29
Mac, and Apple silicon, eventually
1:31
becoming SVP, a senior vice president of
1:33
hardware engineering. At 51, he could
1:35
potentially lead Apple for another
1:37
decade or more. So I think this is
1:39
interesting you know like the fact that
1:40
um everyone's going on and on about the
1:42
fact that um John Turnis is
1:44
fundamentally a a products guy you know
1:47
he comes up from the product development
1:48
background whereas Cook was an
1:50
operations um genius you know really and
1:53
and that was his focus was operations
1:55
and finance and his big baby I guess was
1:57
services I don't know if that's really
1:59
fair on Tim Cook though I you know I
2:00
think you know they've had a he's he's
2:02
had an amazing run this last 15 years in
2:05
terms of products in terms of products
2:06
they put out what other company has put
2:08
out any other sort of you know iPhone
2:11
killer. Um and you know look at Apple
2:14
silicon, look at AirPods, look at um uh
2:19
[laughter]
2:20
>> Apple Yeah, Apple Watch Apple Watch is
2:23
an is an astonishing product. Even the
2:25
iPhone is like fundamentally diff is I I
2:27
say fundamentally is a very different
2:29
device to the first iPhone, isn't it?
2:30
You know, like it's not the iPhone that
2:32
was launched. Um it's a it's a mobile
2:35
camera. I don't think that's fair to say
2:36
that Tim Cook is not a product guy and
2:38
that John Turnis is going to is going
2:39
to, you know, completely change the way
2:42
that Apple's doing things. Do you guys
2:43
agree?
2:44
>> There's something there's something to
2:46
me that's that's flawed in the premise
2:48
of of that argument, which is that a CEO
2:51
shouldn't be a product guy. And the only
2:54
reason we think that they should is
2:56
because we think about Steve Jobs. And
2:59
Apple is an exceptional company in a lot
3:01
of ways. and it was particularly an
3:03
exceptional company um under Steve Jobs.
3:06
But if you think more generally about
3:08
what a CEO is supposed to do, being
3:11
involved in product strategy is
3:13
absolutely not one of a CEO's
3:14
responsibilities. I mean, they're
3:16
responsible for capital allocation. So,
3:18
they should work out big chunks of where
3:21
the company's capital is invested. So,
3:23
sure, they might say, "We're going to
3:25
spend this much on vision OS and we're
3:27
going to spend this much on Mac and this
3:29
much on iPhone." But in in developing
3:32
products and product lines, that's not
3:34
really a CEO's job. And um I think maybe
3:37
part of the success of Apple
3:39
commercially under Tim Cook is because
3:40
he was a great CEO and he was doing what
3:44
CEOs are supposed to do. And if
3:46
anything, I might have a little bit of a
3:47
concern. If Apple is moving back towards
3:52
a product CEO, that might not be the
3:54
right direction because Apple today is
3:56
not the same company that it was 15
3:58
years ago. When when Steve Jobs came
4:01
back to Apple, that was a company that
4:03
had almost ceased to exist. And the only
4:06
thing that could turn it around at that
4:08
point was a product strategy. So that
4:09
was the thing that the CEO needed to
4:11
concentrate on. But, you know,
4:14
[clears throat] today I I don't think
4:16
that that's the case. And if anything,
4:18
you could have if you've got like an ot
4:21
CEO who wants to make his mark on the
4:23
company, that could do more harm than
4:25
good.
4:27
>> Well, he did just kill the Vision Pro.
4:30
>> Well, no. He was on record just this
4:32
week. He did an interview where he says,
4:33
"We're just getting started with the
4:35
Vision Pro."
4:36
>> Did you see that?
4:37
>> No. Uh-uh.
4:38
>> And I It made me smile because the
4:40
Vision The Vision Pro haters are going
4:41
to be really upset that he said that.
4:43
We're just getting started.
4:45
Well, I I went back and saw a clip of
4:47
Tim Cook's first um interview, first
4:50
public interview as CEO was at the D
4:52
whatever 8 conference, you know, with um
4:54
Car Swisser and Walt Mossberg. And he
4:57
said that um they asked him, they said,
4:59
you know, are you going to try to grow
5:01
Apple into this the first $1 trillion
5:03
company, which actually, funny enough,
5:05
came true. It did. He did, but at the
5:06
time it was a $350 billion company or
5:08
whatever, you know, back in 2011. And he
5:11
said, I don't think about that. He said,
5:12
I don't think about the finances. All I
5:13
think about is great products. You know,
5:15
I said if we if we make great products,
5:18
the money will follow. And it's a very
5:20
Steve Jobsian thing to say. You know,
5:22
that's exactly Steve Jobs philosophy.
5:24
And I think, you know, like Jobs had so
5:27
inculcated the company with his
5:28
personality and his way of doing things.
5:30
Um that you know, it it Cook had
5:33
absorbed it and and
5:35
you know, has that been true? I think it
5:37
has. And the other thing I think is
5:39
flawed about this whole Steve Jobs thing
5:41
is that the funny thing if you look into
5:42
Apple into the history of like you know
5:44
Apple's innovations, the products where
5:46
they came from, a lot of them came from
5:48
sort of the the rank and file. Um Jobs
5:51
didn't invent the iPhone. He didn't
5:52
invent the iPod. He didn't invent you
5:54
know any of the the I guess you know did
5:57
he he did he invent the Mac? I guess,
5:58
you know, he definitely oversaw, but he
6:00
did oversee their development and he did
6:02
like influence how they were initially
6:05
at least presented, you know, um the the
6:07
the first the first round of the
6:08
products. Um you know, Johnny Ives when
6:12
they when they were first exploring
6:13
multi-touch,
6:15
Johnny Iv was on record saying that he
6:17
was afraid to show jobs a multi-touch
6:20
demo because he thought the Jobs would
6:22
poo poo it and it would kill it. He'd
6:26
kill the baby in the in the in the
6:28
cradle, you know, that they would he
6:30
he'd he was afraid that that Johnny that
6:32
Jobs would kill it off before they even
6:33
had a chance to explore it,
6:36
>> which I thought was interesting.
6:37
>> Managing upwards.
6:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of managing
6:39
upwards with Jobs. And in fact, there's
6:40
a ton of anecdotes about that. You know,
6:42
like Tony Fidel presented the first
6:44
iPod, you know, they had a trick. They
6:46
they were all coached that you got to
6:47
show jobs three versions of whatever um
6:50
you want uh of whatever you're working
6:53
on and two are sacrificial lambs. What
6:56
you know there's one of them um and you
6:59
always save the best for last you know
7:01
and there was like anecdote after
7:02
anecdote about people following this um
7:05
you know following this example. Anyway,
7:07
you know so back to Turners. Um I think
7:11
that you know like you said I think
7:12
there's there's probably there's there's
7:13
sort of good and bad like you know what
7:15
if he's what if he becomes so enamored
7:17
with his ideas you know then he starts
7:19
to impose them in a top down way um that
7:22
it causes all kinds of headaches
7:24
although I I don't know if there's any
7:25
evidence for that at all you know just I
7:27
think it's just sort of one of the
7:28
worries that you might have um
7:30
>> I think if there would be more off
7:33
thereord griping about his promotion if
7:36
that was the case if the senior team
7:38
weren't comfortable with him I We would
7:40
there'd be more tea being spilled right
7:42
now than there is.
7:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. He
7:45
definitely seems to be wellliked and he
7:46
definitely seems to be um he, you know,
7:49
he's very charismatic. He's a really
7:51
good presenter. Um
7:54
>> he's the handsome guy with big arms
7:56
>> and a and a jawline like Buzz Lightyear,
7:59
>> right?
8:00
>> I mean, the other good thing is that
8:02
Cook isn't going anywhere. So a and he's
8:06
he's also not the only person who is
8:08
making decisions about every little
8:10
thing, you know, how much to spend on a
8:11
modem or where to get a chip. I mean,
8:14
he's got people that work for him. So I
8:16
I mean, if you look at how much services
8:19
generated last quarter, it's like 30.7
8:22
billion. The iPhone The iPhone only did
8:24
54.3 only. But I mean, in comparison,
8:26
think about how how what how close those
8:28
two things are.
8:30
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I I it would be
8:33
weird if uh suddenly Apple started
8:36
stopped making as much money because you
8:38
know a product guy was in charge. I
8:40
mean, don't you feel like it's kind of a
8:42
welloiled machine at this point? Like,
8:44
and
8:45
>> again, Tim
8:48
is uh and I I guess because he's been
8:50
leading a big chunk of the company that
8:52
he already does effectively a CEO role
8:55
for a division within Apple and a a
8:58
division of Apple is like a Fortune 100
9:01
company in its own own right. So I guess
9:03
he already has that experience. But I I
9:06
it from my experience limited experience
9:09
in the corporate world that Peter
9:11
principle really applies of you know
9:13
people being promoted to their own
9:15
unique level of incompetence. You keep
9:17
getting promoted until you land in a job
9:19
that you're not capable of executing on.
9:21
And one of the things which I think is
9:23
related to that and especially as an
9:25
issue if we're saying that John Tennis
9:27
is a product guy is management isn't
9:31
about products and people that are great
9:33
product people are not necessarily great
9:35
managers and vice versa. The management
9:38
is a skill in it its own right. If
9:40
you've ever had a terrible boss then you
9:42
know what bad management is like. So
9:45
actually, you know, I think in that
9:47
sense, one of Tim Cook's skills, uh, he
9:50
might not have been a product guy
9:51
himself, but I do think he sustained an
9:54
environment at Apple where innovative
9:56
products and innovative minds could
10:00
flourish. And, you know, I I think that
10:02
is a tough thing to do and it's
10:04
especially a tough thing to do if you
10:06
were a product person yourself. I think
10:08
for Tim Cook, I think one of the really
10:10
striking things about him, something
10:11
that I really admire is someone so
10:13
capable and so successful, but at the
10:16
same time so incredibly modest, I never
10:18
got the impression from him that he
10:20
needed to take the credit for anything.
10:23
And whereas when Steve Jobs would credit
10:26
people, which he always did, and I think
10:28
people forget that, but at the end of
10:29
every keynote, he would have a round of
10:31
applause for all the engineers and
10:33
designers who worked on the things that
10:34
he presented. But you knew also and he
10:37
had a a sort of ego buzz of presenting
10:40
great stuff. And I think that's kind of
10:41
what we liked about him.
10:43
>> But I I I never get that sense of ego
10:46
with with Tim Cook. And in a way, I
10:48
think that might make him a tougher
10:50
manager because you could play Steve
10:51
Jobs with those managing up stories
10:54
because he had an ego. But I think Tim
10:56
Cook is a very fact-based individual. I
10:59
don't think you'd be able to play him in
11:00
the same way because he doesn't have an
11:03
ego. he has a very clear situational
11:05
understanding of where he sits in the
11:08
room with you and you're not going to be
11:10
able to play games with him in in that
11:12
respect and uh that I think will make
11:14
him a tough act to follow.
11:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. He was
11:16
definitely you know that was a big knock
11:18
on him. He was like a sort of consensus
11:21
uh builder. um you know he was
11:23
definitely he was trying to get the
11:24
whole the team to agree on everything
11:26
and and wouldn't make decisive
11:29
um decisions decided decisions you know
11:32
on his own like um but I you know I I
11:35
don't know if are there any
11:38
uh I can't think of that he stepped a
11:40
foot you know I can't think of there's
11:42
only one thing that I fault him for and
11:45
I don't know if I want to get into it
11:46
but you know like I he didn't really I
11:49
don't know if he he he he stepped a foot
11:51
wrong really in 15 years. I mean I
11:53
vision pro maybe.
11:55
>> No.
11:56
>> Um it's finest hour.
11:58
>> So how about spending $10 billion on
12:00
Apple car and then walking away with
12:02
nothing except for you know AI
12:04
knowledge.
12:05
>> But the you know the but the report I
12:07
read about that that seemed to be like
12:08
Johnny Ives's fault. I think maybe that
12:10
was a you know it sounds like Johnny he
12:12
gave Johnny IV you know too much
12:14
difference and that I was blowing stuff
12:16
up.
12:16
>> Um and you know [clears throat] and
12:18
there's there's definitely a like it's
12:20
funny isn't it? people have been re
12:21
reevaluating IV's career. Um, you know,
12:24
a lot of the problems, butterfly
12:25
keyboard, the s that the, you know, the
12:27
focus on super thinness and, um, all of
12:30
those problems they went through like,
12:31
you know, 5 years ago seem to disappear
12:34
since I've left, you know, and
12:36
everything's gotten better since
12:38
>> an extra millimeter to everything and
12:40
everything's fine.
12:41
>> Yeah. To me it's an example of the Peter
12:43
principle again though because you know
12:45
in that sense Johnny IV did brilliantly
12:48
at Apple when he had Steve Jobs to
12:51
balance him when he became what was it
12:53
chief design officer or whatever what he
12:56
became seauite and there was no one to
12:58
balance him
13:00
I I I think the the decision-m became a
13:03
little bit more shaky I think he's a
13:05
brilliant designer an absolute genius
13:07
but sometimes you need like you have
13:09
these amazing double acts and I think he
13:11
is an amazing double act with Steve Jobs
13:14
and uh you know I'm sure he's got more
13:17
amazing things to share with us but I
13:20
don't know if it'll be with open AI
13:22
because I'm not sure that they have a a
13:23
jobs there in Sam Alman to sort of
13:26
balance him with like sage judgment.
13:28
They were climbing. So they were they
13:30
were climbing. So they, you know, they
13:31
said that this, you remember that weird
13:32
picture they put out where they're kind
13:34
of canoodling and um that odd video, you
13:37
know, that was supposed to be it was
13:39
like Johnny Ives found his new his
13:44
friendship, wasn't it?
13:45
>> Sheesh.
13:46
>> But of course, they're all kinds of
13:47
trouble now with, you know, the lawsuits
13:49
that Apple's launched [laughter] against
13:50
them. But anyway,
13:52
>> whoops.
13:53
>> Too many Apple employees and ask them to
13:55
bring too many Apple secrets. What a
13:56
>> Yeah. [laughter] What an oversight. Oh
13:59
jeez.
14:00
>> Um there was one interesting thing um
14:02
which is when Apple updated the
14:04
leadership page, you know, the um the uh
14:07
the bio uh that um Tennis Tennis's bio
14:12
was was there was one sort of big
14:14
paragraph that was added and much of it
14:16
was the same as it was previously when
14:18
he was in his previous position. Um but
14:21
when they took over a co they added this
14:23
one paragraph and it it gave a a a sense
14:26
I think of what his priorities were. It
14:28
talked about reliability, durability,
14:31
repairability, new innovation in new
14:33
materials and in hardware and reducing
14:36
um products environmental impact. And
14:39
the first thing I thought when I saw
14:40
this is like oh my god this is like the
14:42
Tim Cook doctrine. This is all the stuff
14:43
that Cook was interested in. um and like
14:46
some of the biggest changes that he or
14:47
the stuff that he emphasized that the
14:49
the Apple values that guided his uh
14:52
tenure as CEO um and so it's it seemed
14:56
to be like you know a continuation of a
14:58
lot of things that uh that that Cook was
15:00
interested in but it's also like you
15:02
know these are also really good things
15:04
to be
15:06
concerned with if you're a hardware
15:08
company aren't they? you know, like of
15:09
course you want you want to innovate in
15:11
hardware. Okay, that's not a big
15:14
surprise, but you also want your
15:15
products to be durable and last a long
15:18
time and and to do that they have to be
15:19
repairable. Um, and I think obviously
15:22
he's concerned about the environment and
15:24
he wants to maintain make sure that
15:26
Apple um continues to sort of lead in
15:29
environmental practices and I think they
15:30
definitely have done that. they've made
15:31
some um big and remarkable changes
15:36
uh leading the the entire industrial
15:38
world I think you know in in terms of
15:40
focusing on good environmental practices
15:44
um renewable energy making sure that
15:46
you're good stewards of the environment
15:47
not injecting too many poisons into the
15:50
um atmosphere of course you know the
15:53
whole thing is a little bit uh
15:54
paradoxical because this is a company
15:56
that pumps out millions and millions of
15:58
devices most of which end up in a
16:00
e-waste landfill somewhere. Um, so
16:03
there's a paradox there, but you know,
16:06
>> I I think that is the reason though
16:08
because I think if you were the boss of
16:09
Apple, it's like one thing if you're the
16:12
boss of a tiny company and you feel like
16:14
the decisions you make have little
16:16
impact on the world. But you couldn't
16:18
think that if you're the CEO of Apple,
16:21
you you make a decision and then
16:23
hundreds of millions of units are going
16:25
to be made, you know? so that even like
16:27
a tiny decision in the packaging like
16:29
whether or not you include the stickers
16:31
results in tons and tons of extra
16:34
plastic being spewed out. And um so I I
16:37
kind of feel like if you had that job
16:39
that would weigh heavy on you as a
16:42
responsibility if you were any kind of
16:44
decent person. And I and I think you
16:46
know none of these none of these no
16:48
one's perfect and so no one is like you
16:50
know one thing or another. I I do think
16:53
if you were the boss of a company like
16:55
this, it's something that you would
16:56
think about. You'd have some feeling of
16:58
responsibility because you're operating
17:00
at such mind-bogglingly vast volume.
17:02
>> Yeah, you hope so. Uh it's, you know,
17:05
let's go back to Steve Jobs again. He
17:07
was, I think, kind of sort of paid lip
17:08
service to these issues. you remember he
17:11
was in a big fight with Greenpeace
17:13
um
17:15
>> one time and and he he didn't seem to be
17:17
particularly concerned about it nor nor
17:19
you know things like I don't know you
17:21
remember the Foxcom when all when the
17:22
workers were committing suicide and by
17:24
jumping off the buildings they and he
17:25
said oh yeah we're dealing with that and
17:26
they put some nets up which I think
17:28
[laughter]
17:29
you know
17:30
>> very practical immediate impact
17:34
>> um but Cook definitely I think was was
17:35
was was like you said I think they
17:37
definitely did weigh on Cook's
17:39
conscience and and he's made um he he
17:41
definitely he made big big changes in in
17:43
how they approached the whole supply
17:45
chain and of course he's a supply chain
17:46
he comes from the supply chain he was a
17:48
a manager at a at a at a factory that uh
17:51
so he he knew a lot about you know
17:53
manufacturing and operations and so was
17:56
in a good position I think to be to to
17:58
make those kind of reforms um and you
18:00
know I think you're right you're totally
18:02
right I think Apple is is is one of the
18:04
best um at least the one I don't know
18:06
maybe there's in other industries I'm
18:08
not an expert in the car industry
18:10
um or other industry, but in
18:12
electronics, you know, they've
18:13
definitely been at the forefront of good
18:15
environmental practices and and you
18:17
know, they're trying to push it down
18:19
into the supply chain, too. They're
18:20
talking about when is it 2030 they're
18:22
going to be carbon neutral, which is an
18:24
astonishing goal really um for something
18:26
they started um well, 15 years ago. And
18:29
in 10 years, I mean, they they became
18:30
carbon neutral when in um was it uh it
18:33
was around sort of 2018 somewhere around
18:36
there, maybe it was a bit earlier.
18:39
Anyway, but yeah, I think they've done
18:40
some some some amazing stuff uh in terms
18:43
of um making their products much more um
18:46
environmentally friendly, of course. And
18:48
and and and the one of the stated goals
18:50
was um cradle what's it called? Um when
18:53
products are designed to to you know
18:55
with to to be recycled uh
18:57
>> like circularity or
18:58
>> Yeah. Uh there's something cradle to the
19:00
grave. It was some some play on that.
19:02
But um they've definitely made big
19:05
inroads there too. you know, e every
19:08
product cycle they claim, you know, each
19:10
one has more and more is made from more
19:12
and more recycled materials. Um, and you
19:16
know, they're interested. Their use of
19:17
aluminum is is a good example of that,
19:19
isn't it? Cuz that's highly recyclable.
19:21
Uh, and uh they've been using that quite
19:24
a lot in their in their products to to
19:26
make them, you know, uh uh a lot more
19:30
recyclable.
19:31
Well, those simply robots
19:35
in that area.
19:36
>> I think that the two things that maybe
19:38
count against them and I don't really
19:39
know what they can do, but one is just
19:41
the culture of annual upgrades and I I I
19:44
wouldn't put all of that on Apple's
19:48
wrap sheet because uh they don't tell
19:51
people you have to upgrade every year,
19:52
but people get it into their head, I
19:54
want the new thing every year. And
19:55
because Apple then upgrades things every
19:57
year, there's a lot of people that just
19:58
want to get the new new thing every
20:00
year. And that's maybe not a sustainable
20:03
practice in it in itself, I think. So
20:05
there's that that cultural thing um is
20:09
maybe one of the biggest problems in
20:10
terms of sustainability for Apple.
20:12
>> Yeah, that push to sell ever ever more
20:14
ever more products.
20:17
Um anyway, let's talk about the the
20:19
event next week. Um of course, Apple's
20:21
going to be holding its um surprise and
20:24
shine
20:25
um launch. This is going to be John
20:27
Tennis's big coming out party. Uh, is it
20:30
going to be a live event? Is it going to
20:32
be a canned video? We shall see. Um,
20:36
it's being because of the uh Labor Day
20:37
weekend coming up this weekend, it's
20:40
going to be pushed on to Wednesday
20:42
morning instead of it usual Tuesday
20:45
morning. Um, there's going to be the
20:47
folding iPhone, but also the iPhone 18
20:50
Pro line. And so, we want to talk a
20:53
little bit about the the difference
20:54
between the iPhone 18 Pro versus the
20:57
iPhone 17 Pro. and the biggest rumor
21:00
changes that going to be coming up.
21:02
>> Yeah. So, uh, iPhone 18 Pro, according
21:04
to all the rumors we've seen, looks more
21:05
like a refinement than a redesign.
21:07
Basically, the same display size,
21:09
overall dimensions, especially for the
21:11
Pro. Although, they there's these weird
21:13
rumors that the Pro Max might get even
21:15
thicker to accomplish to accommodate a
21:18
larger battery and a uh crazy variable
21:21
aperture camera.
21:23
Uh,
21:25
talking about diff the colors, there's
21:26
supposedly going to be a new dark cherry
21:28
color that's supposed to be the one
21:29
that's going to be, you know, as hot as
21:31
cosmic orange was. No way. Uh, also
21:34
light blue. And uh, all this week it's
21:37
been like, "Oh, is there going to be a
21:38
gray? Is there going to be a silver? Is
21:39
there going to be a black?" I've seen uh
21:41
various leaks this week saying, "Oh,
21:42
it's going to be silver, not black." And
21:45
a lot of people want a black iPhone. I
21:47
don't know uh where you guys stand on
21:49
that, but a lot of people are going,
21:51
gosh, if they don't make it in black,
21:52
I'm not buying it. [snorts] Anyway, uh
21:54
let's see. Supposedly basically the same
21:56
thing, you know, the aluminum body,
21:59
although they're saying that they're
22:00
going to make the glass uh panel on the
22:02
back that allows the wireless charging,
22:04
make it more closely match the actual
22:06
aluminum, which
22:08
the biggest gripe, Lewis, right there.
22:10
>> That's that's the the worst part about
22:12
the Cosmic Orange phone is the sherbet
22:15
back plate. Uh, let's see. Biggest
22:17
camera change variable aperture main
22:20
lens allowing the camera to physically
22:22
control how much light enters and adjust
22:24
depth of field. Uh, some reports say it
22:27
might just go to the Pro Max, which is,
22:29
you know, the worst kind of feeling when
22:32
you get a Pro phone and it's just not as
22:34
pro as the other Pro phone. Uh, and you
22:37
don't want to go invest in, you know,
22:39
finger extensions to carry that gigantic
22:42
Pro Max around. [laughter]
22:44
Uh, new A20 Pro chip expected to be
22:48
Apple's first build on TSSC's 2nmter
22:51
process. First a well first a series
22:54
chip. [snorts] Uh, one le recently
22:57
claims 18% higher performance and up to
22:59
30% lower power consumption, which I got
23:01
all excited about, but Leander kind of
23:02
burst my bow. He says, "Well, CPU
23:04
consumption doesn't really uh doesn't
23:06
really affect the battery life." Because
23:07
I was like, "Oh, I I immediately equated
23:09
that to 30% better battery life, which
23:11
would actually be a solid reason to
23:12
upgrade." But uh apparently not. Uh
23:15
supposedly big improvement in ondevice
23:18
AI processing because of course we can't
23:19
get enough AI processing on all of our
23:21
devices. Uh this is a rather minor
23:24
update. Supposedly uh some models might
23:27
get the Apple's new C2 modem, but not in
23:29
the United States. Whoops.
23:31
uh if they do introduce that, you know,
23:33
supposedly better uh more efficient
23:36
thing than than the one that the
23:38
Qualcomm uses or the Qualcomm one that
23:40
that Apple uses on current
23:42
[clears throat] devices. Anyway, uh most
23:44
current devices. Jeez, I'm losing my
23:45
mind here. Let's see. So, how's that all
23:48
sound you guys so far? All the pros for
23:50
the pros.
23:51
>> Yeah, the aperture the the variable
23:52
aperture camera, you know, as we
23:54
discussed previously, Charlie pointed
23:56
out that it's going to be good for
23:58
primarily for low light performance,
24:00
isn't it? you know, in taking uh taking
24:02
pictures in low light. Um, and of
24:04
course, you know, a nice a nice thing to
24:06
have for for people who are professional
24:07
photographers. Personally, I just want
24:09
to point and shoot. Um, I don't want to
24:12
mess around with it much at all. Uh, now
24:14
that my kids are grown up, I'm taking a
24:16
lot less photographs than I used to.
24:18
And, um, yeah, I was never one for
24:20
fiddling with the settings anyway.
24:21
Really, are you guys?
24:23
>> Well, I I think it's low light. It's
24:25
also potentially if you're photographing
24:27
fastoving objects that and and uh
24:30
granted that you you know I wouldn't be
24:32
bothered to I I find the the camera app
24:35
baffling as it is but you know with the
24:37
computational photography I I wouldn't
24:40
be surprised if the software can figure
24:41
out oh he's he's down at the dog track
24:44
he's photographing dogs and you know I I
24:47
will reduce the aperture to to take like
24:50
a really or open the aperture rather to
24:52
take a really fast shutter speed shot
24:55
and uh you know so I I think my instinct
24:58
with it is as I said last week I don't
25:00
think they would add it if it didn't
25:02
have value and I don't think they were
25:04
to add it if they couldn't automatically
25:06
use it because most people wouldn't have
25:08
a clue what shutter speed they want. So
25:10
I I thinking about this some more over
25:13
the over the last week. I'm pretty sure
25:15
it's for things that move fast. If you
25:17
rather than having a motion blur, I
25:19
think with this aperture automatically
25:21
controlled, they can probably uh because
25:24
it's already incredibly sensitive to
25:26
light their sensor that they can they
25:28
can probably uh have a much faster
25:30
shutter speed if they can control the
25:32
aperture to get a really kind of crisp
25:34
image of fastoving objects.
25:35
>> Yeah,
25:36
>> that's my theory.
25:37
>> So next time you're shooting like a
25:39
football game from the sidelines, I mean
25:41
this is like like the camera is already
25:43
so good on the 17 Pro. I mean, how much
25:46
better does it need to be? I'm sure
25:47
it'll be better. I am absolutely sure
25:49
it'll be I'm sure they're not going to
25:50
put something in it's not going to make
25:51
it better. Uh, and I agree that with
25:54
Graham, I mean, it's going to work in
25:56
the background to make your shots
25:57
better. But, I mean, I don't know. To
26:00
me, every year the camera sounds better
26:03
and better. I I'm more excited about,
26:05
you know, a a longer zoom lens to be
26:08
honest, that kind of thing. cuz that's
26:09
the thing that
26:11
you know if you're using an iPhone to
26:13
take pictures I mean you really the zoom
26:15
is still rather short I mean compared to
26:17
like an actual camera. So, you know,
26:19
there are times where that would be
26:20
really awesome to have. You know, the
26:22
variable aperture thing, I don't know. I
26:25
I to me that doesn't sound like a
26:27
compelling enough reason to buy a new
26:28
phone, but uh
26:29
>> especially when there's another major
26:32
change, right? That that could be the
26:35
determining factor.
26:36
>> You're talking about the uh the stat
26:38
that nobody wants to talk about, the
26:40
price. [laughter]
26:41
>> Yeah. This one.
26:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, right now, iPhone 17 Pro
26:46
starts at $1,99. That's $1,100.
26:51
Uh price could jump by $200 to $300
26:54
according to the rumor mill. Now, so
26:56
what is it? That starts at at least
26:57
$12.99. That's $1,300. I love the way
27:01
they they chisel that $1 off. So it
27:03
sounds uh let's see. A Pro Max could
27:05
start around $1,400. Holy crap. We're
27:08
talking about a lot of money.
27:10
[clears throat]
27:10
>> That's just starting, isn't it? That's a
27:12
starting price. That's for
27:13
>> that's that's if you get not enough not
27:15
enough uh storage to put all your uh you
27:18
know the the music that you want to take
27:20
with you or a couple of movies. Um yeah
27:22
that's and this is all driven by the
27:24
whole you know DRAM and NAND price stuff
27:26
you know thank you AI all these
27:30
>> all these companies fighting for all
27:31
this and uh yeah I mean that's going to
27:33
be a it's going to be a big hit. I mean,
27:35
I I I got to say the the Apple upgrade
27:37
program that they just rolled out, you
27:39
know, that'll help. That'll tell I
27:41
because I I bet you the Well, will the
27:43
first price they put on the screen be
27:44
the price per month under the Apple
27:46
upgrade program or will it be the full
27:48
price?
27:49
>> Well, they don't put it on screen. They
27:51
just reveal that on the store
27:52
afterwards,
27:53
>> don't they? Don't they say?
27:55
>> They normally do.
27:56
>> They But maybe they won't this time. I
27:59
mean
27:59
>> Oh, I see.
28:00
>> John Tennis's first big innovation.
28:03
>> We've gotten rid of prices. Steve Jobs
28:05
thing though that Steve Jobs would
28:06
announce something really really cool
28:07
and everyone's loving it and then you
28:09
get to the price slide and everyone's
28:11
not loving it so much. That happened a
28:13
lot with Steve Jobs presentations
28:15
including the original iPhone to be
28:17
honest.
28:18
>> It's uh it's a I think it's a
28:20
unfortunate time for that because uh you
28:22
know I mean to be honest this might be
28:25
the first year since working at Cult of
28:26
Mac that I don't upgrade my iPhone. I am
28:29
completely happy with my uh Cosmic
28:31
Orange iPhone 17 Pro. Uh, absolutely
28:35
nothing that I've heard about anything
28:38
in the 18 Pro makes me especially if it
28:41
doesn't if the regular 18 Pro doesn't
28:42
get the variable uh aperture camera.
28:44
Nothing I've heard makes me want to
28:46
upgrade. Not one single thing.
28:47
>> It it it's essentially a kind of an
28:50
incremental minor update with some new
28:52
colors, but it's got the big thing is
28:54
the faster processor. And in that sense,
28:56
isn't that that's the way that it used
28:57
to be with iPhones. It would be every
28:59
other year they would get a big update
29:01
and in the in a year in between what the
29:03
G1 was it G like what did they call the
29:06
one in between
29:06
>> the S [clears throat] the S the S
29:07
upgrades right yeah
29:08
>> the S upgrades and they would have a
29:10
processor bump which this does have and
29:12
it sounds like you know if it's the
29:13
first one which is the uh 2nm series
29:16
then that that's a significant upgrade
29:19
right there but I agree with you Louis
29:21
that in practice for most users if if
29:23
you're not running applications on your
29:25
phone that are kind of really sluggish
29:27
then you're not necessarily going to
29:29
notice the difference of a much better
29:31
processor. I I I think the way that it
29:34
works with these processors is they get
29:35
faster and over time people figure out
29:38
things to do with that extra processing
29:41
power. But, you know, if you were quite
29:43
happy with the processor that you have
29:44
in your 17,
29:46
the a better processor in the 18 is is
29:49
not going to be enough to justify an
29:51
upgrade unless someone comes up with
29:52
some incredible app that only works with
29:54
the new processor.
29:56
>> Siri AI Well, the other thing about all
30:00
this stuff, you know, I've been on the
30:01
iPhone upgrade program forever. They're
30:03
discontinuing that. Um, under that
30:06
program, you know, in addition to
30:08
getting, you know, a one monthly price
30:11
that's, you know, I'm used to now 57
30:13
bucks a month. Uh, that includes Apple
30:16
Care Plus. That's kind of cool. Uh,
30:19
switching over to the Apple upgrade
30:22
program. Yeah, I get the the low price
30:24
uh you know lease payment, but I don't
30:27
get Apple Care Plus included. So, I I
30:30
don't know. I'm thinking about maybe
30:31
just what do you know? Just like paying
30:33
this thing off, having a 17 Pro that I
30:36
fully own in another year and seeing
30:39
what I can do with a uh a carrier, you
30:42
know, cuz especially so when I first
30:44
signed up for the iPhone upgrade
30:46
program, there weren't that many great
30:47
carrier deals. But in the last few
30:49
years, I I keep noticing I see like, oh,
30:51
you know, trade in your iPhone for, you
30:53
know, 90% of it value and get a new
30:55
phone for, you know, $10. And it's it's
30:58
starting to be very tempting to see if I
31:00
can do better than Apple's uh Apple's
31:03
upgrade program.
31:05
>> Well, I I kind of think that's the
31:06
environmentally friendly choice as well,
31:08
not not upgrading every year.
31:10
>> I I mean, back to what you were talking
31:12
about earlier. I mean, for sure. and and
31:14
I actually feel guilty about it every
31:15
year when I hand in a perfectly good
31:18
iPhone to get a slightly better iPhone.
31:21
Um, you know, this last year I didn't
31:23
feel that way cuz it was a completely
31:25
different design. I felt like it's
31:26
actually a better phone and uh plus it
31:29
was orange. But, um, this year I just I
31:33
don't know, man. I'm not I'm not feeling
31:35
it. Maybe maybe they'll roll out
31:36
something that we haven't heard about.
31:38
Uh, but if it's like, you know, the past
31:41
few years, there's not going to be any
31:43
big surprise here with this phone. It's
31:45
going to be exactly what we've already
31:46
heard. I mean, to me, the only thing
31:48
that I'm not sure about is just how high
31:50
they decide to go uh on on the pricing.
31:52
If it's the same price, it's not Well,
31:54
it's not going to be. Nobody says it's
31:56
going to be the same price.
31:58
>> Cherry. Cherry is my favorite fruit, I
32:00
would say. You know, I I love cherry
32:02
pie. I love cherries. I love the look of
32:05
cherries. And if it's in heading towards
32:07
the purple end of the cherry spectrum,
32:10
then I would be I would be very
32:12
interested in that. But, you know, if it
32:14
was cosmic orange, they can't just call
32:16
it dark cherry, can they? It needs to be
32:19
it needs a jazzy
32:20
>> wild cherry.
32:21
>> Well, like wild cherry [laughter]
32:23
>> cherry red.
32:25
>> Or, you know, uh if it if they brought
32:28
if they showed that thing off and it,
32:29
you know, had uh glitter sparkle in it,
32:32
you know, I'd think about it. But, you
32:34
know, my fear is that it's going to be
32:37
closer to maroon than uh, you know, some
32:40
kind of really hot color. Uh,
32:41
>> but do you really want a glittery
32:43
iPhone?
32:43
>> Yeah.
32:44
>> Get yourself a glitter. You're a brony,
32:46
aren't you? You're the secret brony.
32:48
>> I got to say, I am not. Uh, but I, you
32:50
know, I like uh I like things that look
32:53
outrageous, you know, cuz I'm a pretty
32:55
normal looking guy. You know, I don't
32:57
dress outrageously except when I'm
32:58
playing in a band, but uh you know, I
33:01
>> So, your iPhone is an expression of your
33:03
individuality and personal freedom.
33:05
>> Yeah, exactly. $57 a month. [snorts]
33:09
>> I mean, it
33:11
>> Well, it'll be weird if they go back to,
33:13
you know, the the muted professional
33:15
colors again after this one um blip.
33:17
>> That's why a hit.
33:19
>> Yeah.
33:20
>> No way they'll do that. No way. People
33:22
love the colors so much. It seemed like
33:24
the cosmology was was driving huge
33:26
sales. There was some reports about in
33:28
China that um it was you know that uh it
33:32
was like a super upgrade cycle. What do
33:34
they call it? A super cycle. Yeah. And
33:36
driven purely by the cosmic orange color
33:38
and it would be seemed like it' be a
33:40
weird step backwards um if they if they
33:42
went back to the the professional.
33:43
>> This is something I was wrong about cuz
33:45
I I I really didn't think there'd be
33:46
much market for it and Lewis was
33:48
championing the cause of brightly
33:49
colored phones and I I didn't buy it. I
33:51
I thought, "Yeah, you would like it, but
33:53
they won't sell many." And boy, was I
33:55
wrong. You know, it was really obvious
33:57
from the reception to the the 17 Pros
34:01
that people absolutely love those
34:02
colors, and they wanted more different
34:04
colors. So, I mean, I think kind of
34:06
there's a case for keeping the orange in
34:08
the line and adding the cherry. I don't
34:10
know if they should really be changing
34:12
the orange for the cherry. Why not have
34:13
both?
34:14
>> Yeah, that's a
34:15
>> I haven't heard that rumor at all.
34:16
>> But then you couldn't tell which one
34:18
which which one you'd had, right? Isn't
34:20
that probably a question, right? I mean,
34:21
yeah, you know, it's like I
34:24
I'm sure people feel like it's a flex,
34:26
you know. I mean, it was I I I got to
34:28
admit it got a little bit of a charge
34:30
when I, you know, walked into a a bar in
34:33
San Francisco a week after the thing
34:35
came out and the bartender's like, "Oh,
34:36
you got the new one." You know, it's
34:37
like, "Yeah, [laughter] okay." It was
34:38
completely obvious, right? I mean, I I
34:41
mean, it's it can't be overlooked,
34:44
especially with the new design, you
34:46
know, the big even if I had not had a uh
34:48
bright orange case on it. uh you know
34:51
that there's so much exposed with the
34:53
camera plateau that it's like
34:54
>> but you know coming from London I that
34:57
that kind of worries me right there. I
34:59
absolutely don't want my new iPhone be
35:02
clocked by anyone. I want it to be like
35:04
on the down low [laughter]
35:06
>> some really cape on it.
35:10
>> That's snatched out of your hand by some
35:12
ebike rider.
35:13
>> That is a I'm going to camouflage that
35:15
thing like an android. [snorts] Sad
35:17
commentary on London.
35:19
>> [laughter]
35:20
>> of London.
35:21
>> Well, I think I'm probably going to get
35:23
the folding iPhone and mostly for
35:25
professional reasons, of course, you
35:26
know, um going to have to review it for
35:28
Cult of Mac. Um I'm not looking forward
35:31
to spending $25,000 or however much it's
35:34
going to be [laughter]
35:35
when it comes out. Um and I'm not sure
35:37
how I feel about this. There was like uh
35:39
the folding iPhone won't support the
35:42
Apple Pencil. Um but it will get Mag
35:45
Safe. So apparently Apple reportedly was
35:47
testing an Apple Pencil specifically for
35:48
the upcoming folding iPhone which um
35:50
which is supposed to be have a 7.8 in
35:53
iPad miniike device when it's unfolded.
35:56
According Mark German, the prototype was
35:58
shorter than an Apple Pencil and
36:00
magnetically attached to the side of the
36:01
folding iPhone for storage and charging.
36:04
But Apple apparently abandoned the idea
36:06
partly because a stylus could damage the
36:08
the delicate folded display particularly
36:10
if users pressed hard while writing or
36:12
drawing. that and that that I was like
36:15
what? When I read this I was like are
36:16
you kidding?
36:18
>> Um this doesn't sound good at all.
36:20
>> Yeah,
36:20
>> but I guess that's the seam, right? Like
36:22
because this is it has a glass surface
36:25
which folds and that still blows my
36:27
mind. I don't know that that seems to
36:29
defy the laws of physics. I don't know
36:30
how it's possible but [snorts] but you
36:32
know glass shatters and the only way
36:34
this is possible must be super thin film
36:36
of glass. And I I I imagine it maybe
36:40
yeah for that reason they they can't
36:42
have people pointing stabby things at
36:44
it.
36:44
>> But Samsung has had sty styi with its
36:48
folding
36:49
>> I like phones hasn't it?
36:51
>> Is is styli the plural of stylus? I just
36:55
made that up.
36:56
>> Yeah. Um when I first heard this the
36:59
first thing I thought of is you remember
37:00
those those like toys that they they
37:02
made when you were a kid. It had like a
37:04
a layer of something and a little uh a
37:06
plastic layer on top and you could like
37:07
draw on it and and it would write and
37:09
then you could lift it up and it would
37:11
erase it. I was like, how thin and
37:13
>> damageable is this screen going to be if
37:16
if you can't use a an Apple Pencil on
37:19
it?
37:20
>> I mean,
37:20
>> right,
37:21
>> that is just kind of hard to believe. I
37:23
mean, I totally get the the oh, it you
37:26
don't want something that you attach
37:28
magnetically to a phone because, you
37:29
know, like you do with an iPad, which is
37:31
perfectly fine, I suppose, but you know,
37:33
you could be putting this Well, I would
37:35
be putting this phone in and out of my
37:38
pocket 100 times a day. You want a
37:40
pencil, you know, popping [snorts] off
37:42
of it and falling to the ground every
37:43
every single dime. I mean,
37:46
>> yeah. When Samsung got those pencils,
37:48
they or sty styli, they don't they have
37:51
a slot inside the phone which like a a
37:53
hole that you slot it into stow it.
37:56
>> Um
37:57
>> I believe so.
37:57
>> So I I in that sense it's an integral
38:00
part of the product. It's not like an
38:02
accessory sold after market. And uh I
38:05
don't see Apple doing that. But I also
38:07
think I'm curious about Apple Pencil. I
38:09
love it for drawing on my iPad. I use it
38:11
for drawing all the time, but I don't
38:13
use it for anything else. And I'm
38:15
curious, do people actually use Apple
38:17
Pencil? I know there's all these things
38:19
you can do like writing notes and that
38:21
whole app free form that they came up
38:23
with, but do people actually use Apple
38:26
Pencil for anything other than drawing
38:28
because I I I could be wrong, but I I
38:30
just have a feeling they don't.
38:31
>> But it's good for photo editing.
38:32
>> Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. But that that to
38:34
me is in the same territory because
38:36
you're kind of using it. Um, so like for
38:38
artists and graphic designers and things
38:40
like that, it has a it's such a
38:42
brilliant thing. It's it's better than
38:44
almost any other stylus you could use.
38:47
Um, but if you for for taking notes or
38:50
free form or whatever, or that weird
38:52
thing where you like tap in the corner
38:54
and it creates a scribbly note thing.
38:56
Um, oh, does anyone actually use it? I
38:59
don't think that they do.
39:00
>> Ed add Ed Hardy, you know, our iPad guy,
39:03
he he I think he uses one. I think he
39:05
uses it all the time. Okay.
39:07
>> Um I I I don't I I tried using it to I
39:10
tried to do some handwriting on it and
39:11
oh my god it was such a it was so
39:13
difficult and
39:14
>> my handwriting is awful anyway. Um
39:16
[laughter]
39:17
>> well the writing is on the wall for
39:19
handwriting. I mean every device now
39:22
could just automatically take notes for
39:23
you.
39:24
>> Yeah.
39:25
>> Why bother why bother scribbling
39:27
something half the speed what the
39:29
person's talking uh that you even you
39:32
can't read half an hour later?
39:34
>> Yeah. So, I'm a little bit dubious that
39:37
the pencil ever made sense on on the
39:40
folding iPhone at all. I mean, sure,
39:43
like there's like if you're working for
39:45
a company like Apple, you've got the
39:46
time and the budget to really consider
39:48
everything. So, you would think about
39:50
it. You'd have meetings and talk about
39:51
it like, are we going to do a pencil
39:53
with this folding iPhone? And you'd talk
39:55
about that. That doesn't mean it ever
39:56
seriously was going to happen, if you
39:58
know what I mean. It it's like if if
40:00
you're an Apple executive and you're
40:01
working on this thing, it's kind of your
40:03
job to consider all these things, but
40:05
just the fact you're considering it
40:07
doesn't mean that you're seriously going
40:08
to do it. Um it certainly justifies a
40:11
few meetings to discuss.
40:13
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure enough. Well, one
40:15
of but one of the things they said one
40:17
of the reasons that they it was rejected
40:20
was because they wanted to keep the
40:22
device as thin as possible and adding
40:24
support for a stylus would you'd have to
40:26
have an an extra digitizer layer beneath
40:28
the display
40:30
um which would have added you know a
40:33
fraction of a thickness. Yeah.
40:35
>> Um and apparently Samsung this is one of
40:37
the reasons why Samsung made the similar
40:39
trade-off. They they used to support the
40:41
S Pen, but they removed it in the um
40:43
Zfold 7 um as part of a push for a
40:46
thinner design. So that apparently was
40:49
one of the reasons why uh it was it was
40:52
rejected.
40:53
>> Yeah, I guess because the fold doubles
40:55
up then however thick it is, it's going
40:57
to be twice that thickness, right? So
41:00
it's a big consideration for sure.
41:01
>> The good news is it's going to mag safe
41:03
though. Well, at least it kind of seems
41:05
maybe it is going to get a mag safe.
41:07
Again, this come from German. um who he
41:10
had an interview with Tom's Guide that
41:11
was published on Tuesday and he said
41:13
quote all indications that I've heard is
41:15
that Mags Safe is in for this foldable
41:17
iPhone unquote. Um and you know I I uh I
41:23
honestly I think with if it didn't have
41:24
Mag Safe that almost might have been a
41:26
deal breaker for me really.
41:27
>> That would be a serious downgrade.
41:29
>> Mhm. I don't find I don't find Mags safe
41:32
that useful actually. But I I I remember
41:36
there was all that fuss about uh the SE.
41:39
Was it the SE that didn't have Mag Safe?
41:42
>> 16. No, the 15A. One of the
41:44
>> There is no 15 16E
41:47
minds about that. And so then Apple
41:49
added it back again and but I it's to me
41:53
I've never really understood this. It's
41:54
just a less efficient slower way of
41:57
charging your phone. I don't I
41:59
[laughter] don't understand why people
42:00
love it so much.
42:01
>> Do you do you own a MagSafe charger?
42:03
>> Yes. But I have one of You remember like
42:05
when Apple first brought it out, they
42:07
had that folding travel charger which
42:10
>> one side does your watch and the other
42:11
side does your phone? And I still have
42:13
one of those. And I I use it from time
42:16
to time, but actually I only really use
42:17
it for the watch because the phone, one
42:20
of the things that bugs me is I have one
42:21
of these on my bedside and if you put
42:24
the phone onto the charger, it insists
42:27
on making a noise. It like goes beep
42:29
beep or something. And every I've looked
42:31
everywhere, but where can I turn that
42:32
noise off? And I mean, correct me if I'm
42:34
wrong. I hope I'm wrong actually. If
42:36
someone writes in and tells me why I'm
42:38
wrong, then great cuz I need to know
42:39
this. I don't think you can turn that
42:41
noise off. And that means that if you
42:43
know I could wake someone up if I put
42:45
you know you don't want your bedside
42:47
table if you just charge your phone for
42:49
it to go beep.
42:49
>> Same thing with the Apple Watch though,
42:51
right? Put it down, you hear that little
42:53
whatever it is.
42:53
>> Mhm. Yeah.
42:54
>> Oh, I haven't heard that.
42:55
>> The charging sound.
42:56
>> I find I find it very reassuring. I you
42:58
know it's great for batteries um and
43:01
other accessories. Um I love it when you
43:03
put it on the the charging stand. I
43:05
don't care how long it takes to charge
43:06
up. I only do it at night time.
43:08
>> Um and they they're much faster than
43:10
they are now. And if you if you actually
43:12
own like, you know, I I I you know, I'm
43:14
not dissing your purchase there, Graham,
43:16
but if you own a real magave charger,
43:18
like a recently released one, you know,
43:20
G2.2, they're very fast. You know, you
43:22
just kind of plop your phone on it. It
43:24
just hops to it instantly. Goes the
43:27
right place. Same thing with uh you
43:29
know, you can also put your AirPods on
43:31
there. You know,
43:32
>> we have one like there's there's the
43:35
shelf where you would naturally stash
43:36
your phone uh has like wireless charging
43:39
in it. I it's not Mac safe actually.
43:41
It's just wireless charging and it's the
43:44
only place really for your phone and I
43:46
put it in there and then you know I've
43:48
got CarPlay going and it's all great and
43:50
then like in front of CarPlay's all
43:52
these displays saying oh we can't charge
43:53
your phone and I'm like I didn't ask you
43:55
to charge my phone and the phone is
43:57
redot and it it's like I wish I could
44:01
turn this thing off. Please don't try to
44:03
charge my phone because it's just
44:04
stupid. It's like it's a waste of
44:06
electricity to charge it with wireless.
44:09
It's just nonsense and it often doesn't
44:11
work. It overheats the phone. It
44:13
overheats the car. It It's just Please
44:15
don't.
44:16
>> Well, safe hater. I can't believe it.
44:18
>> I have a really old truck and I I have a
44:22
magnetic mount. It's not Mag Safe. I
44:24
still have to plug my phone in which I
44:25
hate uh because I, you know, half the
44:28
time forget to, you know, unplug it. So,
44:30
I'm like walking out the the door and
44:32
yanking the cord. But, you know, just
44:34
being able to toss my phone and have it
44:36
magnetically sit on there is awesome. I
44:38
mean, if you remember before Mag Safe, I
44:40
mean, people companies made magnetic
44:42
things that you could glue to the back
44:43
of your phone or glue to the back of
44:45
your phone case so that it would sit on
44:47
a magnetic mount like that. I mean,
44:49
that's how cool that is for, you know,
44:51
certain people, certain situations. And
44:53
the same thing still applies like
44:54
Leander says, you just pop on a a
44:56
magnetic charger, boom, it's it's great.
44:59
It's I mean, I would really miss Mags
45:01
Safe in a phone. And uh really if if it
45:05
if you know I'm not going to buy a
45:06
folding iPhone anyway. I I'm almost 100%
45:09
sure unless I do something that just you
45:11
know flips a switch in my brain that I
45:13
can't stop from pushing the button. Uh
45:15
if it didn't have Mag Safe and
45:17
everything else, you know, that would be
45:18
enough for me to say no. I'm I'm sorry.
45:20
I'm just not going to get it.
45:21
>> Yeah, I I totally believe it will have
45:23
Mag Safe because I know I'm in the
45:24
minority here. People love MagSafe and
45:27
there's no way that they can sell uh
45:30
like a an iPhone folding iPhone as a
45:32
premium phone if it doesn't doesn't have
45:35
that. So, I don't know where the rumor
45:36
came that it wouldn't have that. But
45:39
yeah, that sounded like that sounds like
45:40
a stretch to me. I can't believe Apple
45:42
would ship it like that.
45:43
>> There's definitely some uh it has to
45:45
have some electronics, doesn't it? In
45:46
the in the back of uh Well, although I
45:49
the um the 16e you could wirelessly
45:52
charge it. It just didn't have the
45:53
magnets. Right. That's right. Yeah. And
45:55
people got people lost their minds about
45:57
that.
45:57
>> I mean, the magnet sort of thing I my
45:59
phone right now, which I'm using as my
46:01
camera for this podcast, is mounted to a
46:03
a you know, a magnetic mount that sits
46:06
on top of my monitor. I mean, what would
46:08
I do? Yeah, I'm sorry. It's it's it's
46:10
crucial to the way that I, you know, and
46:13
when did they introduce it? Like 5 years
46:15
ago. I I it's it's become something I
46:17
can't imagine not having.
46:19
>> Right. My mom insisted that, you know,
46:21
she she upgraded her phone just for Mag
46:23
Safe. that was the key thing she wanted.
46:25
So, um I think it's definitely it, you
46:28
know, I think in a lot of people's
46:29
minds, yeah, it's definitely it's a
46:31
crucial feature and that definitely
46:32
harmed the the that that Eve series
46:35
phone not having it. Let's um let's talk
46:37
about the Apple Watch, which also
46:39
probably is going to be um released next
46:41
week, the series 12, uh and maybe the
46:44
Apple Watch Ultra 4. Right, Graeme?
46:46
What's Yeah, so right a bunch of
46:49
different rumors here. I think the maybe
46:51
the most exciting thing is the the chip
46:54
upgrade. Um the new S11 chip.
46:57
Potentially the first significant Apple
46:59
Watch performance boost since the S9
47:01
arrived in 2023. That's because Apple's
47:04
been incrementing the name of the
47:07
processor, but not really incrementing
47:09
its spec under the hood. Sneaky that. Um
47:13
uh it could improve app performance and
47:15
make Siri AI faster on the wrist. Um,
47:19
design rumors conflict. Digi Times
47:21
claims uh that the Ultra 4 would have a
47:23
thinner case, roughly twice as many
47:25
sensors, and even possibly Touch ID.
47:28
While Bloomberg's Mark German expects no
47:31
major redesign and considers Touch ID
47:34
unlikely. I have to say I'm more with G
47:36
on that. What do you guys think about
47:38
that
47:38
>> Touch ID thing?
47:39
>> Yeah. Are you Are you And also actually
47:42
the other thing I should say before I
47:44
throw it over to you guys is the health
47:46
tracking side of things. Um, there's not
47:49
really much meaty stuff here in the
47:51
rumors. Possible improvements on
47:53
hypertension detection, possibly
47:55
providing more detailed blood pressure
47:57
trends, but not like numeric blood
48:00
pressure values obviously. Um, and still
48:04
no sign of non-invasive blood glucose
48:07
monitoring. Um, so you know, maybe kind
48:11
of sort of improvements on on health,
48:13
but not much that's really tangible
48:15
there, apart from potentially always on
48:19
uh heart rate monitoring. What What do
48:21
you guys think?
48:22
>> I'm not 100% sure what the always on
48:24
heart rate monitoring um will allow will
48:28
enable. I I saw some um uh well, you
48:32
know, the Fitbit Air, which I'm wearing
48:33
right now, uh does that. But it it
48:36
monitors your heart all day. And I think
48:38
Whoop uh a couple of the other bands do
48:40
that too. And I think I saw somewhere
48:42
that it it is supposed to be better for
48:45
things like estimates of your readiness
48:47
to to exercise
48:49
um for it measure, you know, it keeps a
48:51
better eye on um the the heart rate uh
48:54
variability, which is a key measure of
48:57
that sort of stuff. But beyond that, I'm
48:59
not sure like, you know, what other what
49:01
features it will unlock. Um, the speed
49:04
of the chip. Uh, it's funny if you go if
49:06
you, you know, I picked up an older
49:08
Apple Watch uh that I was going to give
49:10
to someone the other day and and I
49:11
noticed how slow it was, but I can't say
49:13
that I noticed how slow my Apple Watch
49:15
Ultra is. And even my older Apple Watch
49:17
Ultra, which is like I don't know 4
49:19
years old now, that thing's not slow. I
49:21
don't have any problems with the speed
49:22
of the processor. Then again, I'm not
49:24
actually running Siri AI on it yet. So,
49:28
um, maybe it would make a a big
49:30
difference when, you know, to for things
49:32
like Siri. Um, do I want to I don't know
49:35
if I want to redesign either cuz I got
49:36
all these bands, you know, that I don't
49:38
want any kind of I don't want Apple
49:39
messing with that. I don't want all of
49:41
that stuff to be thrown. Um, you know, I
49:44
don't have to get a whole bunch of new
49:45
bands. Although, actually, I never
49:46
change my band, so I don't know what I'm
49:48
talking about.
49:48
>> It's nice to know you can.
49:50
>> Yeah, [laughter] exactly.
49:52
Um, and uh, what was the other thing we
49:55
were talking about? Yeah. you you
49:58
I I don't have an I haven't had an
50:00
hypertension alert yet, even though I do
50:02
actually have um high blood pressure.
50:04
>> Um
50:06
so that's a bit worrying actually now I
50:08
think about it. [laughter] Oh, Touch ID.
50:11
I don't know. Do I need Touch ID? I
50:12
mean, like it's not too intrusive to
50:14
type in your your your code when you
50:16
first put it on.
50:18
>> And I mean, I always sort of wondered
50:20
whether it was kind of insecure, you
50:22
know, that you could use it to unlock
50:23
your you know, I use it to unlock my Mac
50:25
all the time. And there's no um and also
50:28
for passwords, you know, like you can
50:30
doubleclick the the uh the button now to
50:34
um to unlock your P to unlock passwords
50:35
on your Mac, which I do all the time.
50:38
And I've sort of kind of like, you know,
50:40
how secure is this? Um really, it's not
50:42
it doesn't seem to be that secure
50:45
as a authentication [clears throat]
50:47
system.
50:47
>> Insecure.
50:49
>> Yeah, but you know, I guess it's you
50:52
know, maybe it's not that insecure. It
50:54
just seems like it's insecure. And of
50:56
course, a Touch ID on the watch would
50:58
make it more secure, but then Touch ID
51:00
never works for me. I've got Touch ID on
51:01
my keyboard. I've got Touch ID on on an
51:03
iPad. It never ever works. And I'm
51:06
always having to reset the thing. It
51:07
works for
51:08
>> That's a sign of age.
51:10
>> Yeah, I know.
51:13
Um, so I I actually hate Touch ID and if
51:16
you know like get uh I've been meaning
51:18
to I want to get a new iPad and and I
51:21
I'll only look at an iPad Pro because it
51:23
because of Face ID then the you know the
51:24
the Air which I I'd love to get an iPad
51:27
Air but it doesn't have Face ID and so
51:29
that keeps holding me back um because I
51:32
just can't deal with Touch ID on the
51:34
thing. But otherwise, I don't know.
51:35
Yeah, you know the other way around. I
51:36
think I prefer Touch ID to Face ID.
51:39
Touch ID always works for me
51:40
immediately. It's incredibly reliable.
51:43
And Face ID, it's kind of slow and not
51:46
as good. But I I guess I, you know, I
51:48
have a face for podcasting, for radio,
51:51
you know, and I don't have a face for
51:54
FaceTime, but my fingers have still got
51:57
nice fingerprints.
52:00
[snorts]
52:01
Um, I'm not Yeah. So, I don't know. I uh
52:05
This is almost like again, it's like
52:06
sort of an incremental the iPhone Pros.
52:08
It's like an incremental upgrade.
52:10
Nothing here really sounds that enticing
52:13
to to to you know to get me to upgrade.
52:15
We'll see though
52:17
frustrated
52:19
that or or or Apple fans are a bit
52:21
frustrated with the speed of change with
52:24
Apple Watch. I I'm personally overall
52:26
pretty happy with where Apple Watch is
52:29
at. But I think there's a lot of people
52:30
that have an appetite for more variety
52:33
in design and maybe more experimental
52:36
health sensors.
52:37
>> Yeah. Especially the Well, go on this.
52:39
What were you going to say?
52:40
>> No, I was going to say I know exactly
52:41
what you're going to say, right? Blood
52:43
glucose monitoring would be awesome. Uh
52:46
even if they just introduced what uh you
52:48
know, the Pixel Watch and Fitbit Air
52:50
introduced just recently, or I guess
52:53
they announced it. It hasn't actually
52:54
come out yet, but it's it's another one
52:56
of these things like the Apple Watch
52:58
hypertension thing where it just like
53:00
looks at things over time and says,
53:01
"Well, maybe you've got a problem." uh
53:05
you know tries to figure out like oh you
53:07
might have uh you might be on the way to
53:08
diabetes you might be developing insulin
53:11
insulin resistance um things like that I
53:15
mean if Apple introduced well if they
53:17
introduced that that'll probably be a
53:19
software thing that might actually work
53:21
with older versions um for me that you
53:24
know I know I'm insulin resistance so I
53:26
don't really need a watch to take 30
53:28
days to tell me I might be um
53:32
all these Actually, I wonder if that
53:34
insulin resistant trend is one of those
53:35
things that the the the continuous
53:37
monitoring would enable. Um because
53:39
that's only available on um the latest
53:41
Pixel Watch and the latest Fitbit uh
53:44
band. It is not backwards compatible
53:47
with their devices. So, I wonder whether
53:49
um that that uh that it needs that kind
53:51
that continuous monitoring because like
53:53
you like you said that that seemed to be
53:55
you know for me for me for someone my
53:56
age definitely interested in that. That
53:58
was what that was the reason why I
53:59
bought the Fitbit Air was just to get
54:02
that feature. Of course, I didn't
54:03
realize it didn't come out for another
54:05
month or so. So, um a bit disappointed
54:07
to find out it wasn't enabled
54:08
immediately. But, uh yeah, that's
54:10
definitely that's that's something that
54:11
they could, you know, theoretically add
54:13
with just software. They wouldn't need
54:14
any new sensors. It just uses the
54:16
sensors that are already built into the
54:18
Apple watches.
54:18
>> I Let's talk uh real quick about the the
54:21
um the series 12 and what what we're
54:23
expecting uh for that. Okay, so series
54:26
12 isn't expected to get a major
54:27
redesign. It is expected to look broadly
54:30
like series 11. Apple is concentrating
54:32
like with the Ultra on the internals.
54:34
So, it too should get the S11 chip. Um,
54:38
Apple may be bringing back the ceramic
54:40
case possibly with a black on with a
54:42
white and gray option. Um, that's
54:45
something that they haven't offered
54:46
since the Apple Watch Series 5. And I
54:48
thought that looked rather nice. So, you
54:50
know, that to me is is exciting. Rumors.
54:53
Uh, yeah. But a note here from our story
54:56
that that is probably going to come at a
54:58
very premium price tag. Um the same kind
55:01
of incremental health and fitness
55:03
improvements uh that we talked about for
55:05
the Ultra with potentially the
55:07
continuous heart rate monitoring. Um and
55:10
uh it's expected to ship in September,
55:13
probably starting around 399 bucks. Um
55:17
and any bigger changes which have been
55:19
rumored are thought to be quite a way
55:21
down the road. Maybe next year, maybe
55:22
the year after. Is that enough? Is Apple
55:25
dragging its feet on the Apple Watch
55:27
series?
55:27
>> Uh, no. You know, like you said, I'm I'm
55:30
kind of happy with where they are at the
55:31
moment. Um, the the news uh like you
55:34
know, with the the the series um uh what
55:37
was the previous the 10 that the uh you
55:40
know with a bigger screen, gorgeous,
55:43
really beautiful devices. I wear an
55:45
Ultra, so I haven't had a regular series
55:47
watch for quite a while now. Um years in
55:50
fact. Uh they do look good. They they're
55:53
really nice watches, though. I mean,
55:54
they're really really beautiful looking
55:55
things. I think the ceramic case looks
55:57
really appealing, but again, it I don't
56:00
think I'm going to be um I wouldn't go
56:02
one go out of my way to just to get one
56:04
just for that. And is it the It looks
56:06
good in white cuz it looks like ceramic,
56:08
but a black one. Um I I bet you couldn't
56:12
really tell what material it was made
56:13
out of if it was black ceramic. You'd be
56:15
like, "Is that
56:16
>> I think that gives it a Darth Vader
56:17
look. It looks like Darth Vader's
56:18
helmet."
56:19
>> Okay. really shiny and
56:21
>> but doesn't scratch.
56:22
>> They did an iPhone like that once. It
56:23
was quite quite cool. Was that the like
56:25
the iPhone 7 or something had a shiny
56:27
black?
56:28
>> Piano black.
56:29
>> Piano black. Right.
56:30
>> Scratched immediately. you I know Lewis
56:33
you you didn't you get some one on Whoop
56:35
like a stainless steel one or I was the
56:37
cheap aluminum and I was quite happy
56:39
with the cheapest aluminum watch you
56:40
know that you could that money could buy
56:41
mainly because I'm a cheapkate but and
56:43
and and I would never really ever play
56:45
you know like the idea of of getting a
56:48
fancy material struck me like getting a
56:50
$17,000 gold one, you know, it just
56:52
never appealed.
56:53
>> Yeah. I've never That's the only one I
56:55
mean aside from the Ultra, that's the
56:57
only time I've ever got anything that
56:58
wasn't just the the you know cheapest
57:00
possible Apple Watch. Um, and you know,
57:02
in the early days they were upgrading,
57:04
you know, it's kind of a lot each year,
57:07
right? The last five or years or so,
57:09
it's like, yeah, well, you know,
57:10
[snorts] uh, hardressed to tell, you
57:13
know, even if you're standing side by
57:15
side with them, but, uh, yeah, the
57:16
stainless steel with it, are you happy
57:18
with it? The
57:19
>> I mean, it's fine because I paid like
57:21
$120 for it, you know. I I would if I
57:24
would have paid $700 for it instead of
57:26
getting the aluminum one. No. What's the
57:29
difference? I mean, I don't I don't even
57:31
notice it, right? It it it doesn't have
57:33
any impact whatsoever on the watch
57:35
itself, how I wear the watch, how I feel
57:38
about the watch. It seems fine. The
57:40
other ones seem fine. You [laughter]
57:41
know, I I still amazed that that people
57:44
do that. You know, I mean, you know,
57:46
some people have more disposable income
57:48
than than journalists do, but uh
57:50
>> Right. [clears throat] But like I said,
57:52
it's it's for the flex, isn't it?
57:53
>> Yeah. I mean, I I'm curious about the
57:56
ceramic ones. I don't think I've ever
57:57
actually seen one of those in real life.
57:58
So,
57:59
It's not something I would pay the money
58:01
for and upgrade, you know, because I
58:04
mean I I don't I don't honestly I don't
58:06
know if I'm buying anything this year
58:07
except maybe the Home Hub, but uh you
58:10
know, because the watches I have are
58:11
fine. They're fine.
58:13
>> The phone I have is fine.
58:15
>> Um you know, like four or five years
58:16
ago, people were going crazy about the
58:18
rumor that Apple was going to redesign
58:20
the Apple Watch with flat sides. And you
58:23
know, people were sure that rumor was a
58:25
lock. And at the time I didn't buy that
58:28
because I thought that the the design of
58:30
Apple Watch was fine and had plenty of
58:32
legs left in it. And I didn't I just
58:35
didn't feel like Apple at that time was
58:37
just changing designs for the sake of
58:38
it. It wasn't like the Steve Jobs iPod
58:41
era where they just changed the design
58:43
of the iPod every year just because
58:45
Apple had got into this groove where it
58:47
found the perfect form factor for like
58:50
the MacBook and then it just left it
58:52
like that. And I I thought that that's
58:54
where Apple Watch was at too. So it
58:56
didn't surprise me when that flatsided
58:58
Apple Watch rumor never materialized.
59:01
But I'm starting to feel a little bit
59:03
different about series now cuz it's been
59:05
around for a long time. And although it
59:07
has been through design iterations, they
59:09
are basically just smaller bezels and
59:11
thinner. It it essentially looks like
59:13
the same design idea as when it
59:16
launched. And I think that that one of
59:19
the things that's holding them back is
59:20
this band compatibility.
59:22
>> [clears throat]
59:22
>> But I don't know, like speaking with my
59:25
own experience, I've bought many bands
59:27
and many watches over the years, and all
59:29
of my bands wear through. Like this band
59:31
that I've got my Ultra here, it's kind
59:33
of filthy. It gets all gross from sweat
59:36
when I'm running. Uh my dog Label likes
59:39
to lick it. When it was new, I stopped
59:41
her from licking it. But now it's like,
59:43
oh, whatever. It's a it's [laughter] a a
59:45
train wreck, so she gets to to lick the
59:47
band as well. So it's all kind of
59:49
encrusted in sweat and dog saliva. and
59:52
[laughter]
59:53
and I will be replacing it, you know,
59:56
with a new watch. And it that just makes
59:58
me think, well, how important is this
1:00:00
band compatibility thing? Because I do
1:00:02
think at this point it must be what's
1:00:03
holding Apple back in significantly
1:00:05
changing the form factor and does it
1:00:07
really matter because don't the bands
1:00:09
get worn out? Is it really that many
1:00:11
people who have like a [snorts] like a
1:00:13
Real Housewives style walk-in closet
1:00:15
where you just open drawer after drawer
1:00:17
of Vapper Watch bands? Is that really a
1:00:20
thing or don't you just use it until
1:00:22
it's worn out and then you buy a new
1:00:23
one? You might as well get a new one
1:00:24
with a new watch anyway.
1:00:26
>> It's I think it's a psychological thing.
1:00:28
I mean, I do happen to have a lot of
1:00:30
them. Some of which I've bought, some of
1:00:31
which have been review units. Um, if
1:00:33
they if they go up on stage on Wednesday
1:00:35
and go, "Sorry, it's the end of the line
1:00:37
for uh watch bands." I mean, I think I
1:00:40
would I would feel very hurt, you know,
1:00:42
like I've I've got all this money, you
1:00:44
know, invested in this amazing uh
1:00:48
collection of bands and I rarely ever,
1:00:50
you know, swap any of them out. But, um
1:00:52
I think it would be I think it would
1:00:54
you'd feel kind of betrayed, you know,
1:00:56
especially if let's just say you have 10
1:00:58
bands that you bought. You you got, you
1:01:00
know, pricey ones. You got maybe $1,000
1:01:03
invested in Apple Watch bands and now if
1:01:05
you buy a new watch, you can't use them.
1:01:08
I think that would be hurtful.
1:01:09
>> What if it was a if if the choice was a
1:01:13
new look Apple Watch or band
1:01:15
compatibility but not both, which would
1:01:17
you choose?
1:01:18
>> Well, it depends very much on what the
1:01:20
new the new the new bands enable cuz
1:01:22
there was talk about um
1:01:24
if they redesigned them, they'd make
1:01:26
them magnetic and um there'd be an
1:01:28
electronic connection, too. So they
1:01:30
would allow new sensors that could be
1:01:32
built into the band or maybe like a, you
1:01:34
know, a a a blood pressure cuff that
1:01:37
would squeeze your [laughter] wrist and
1:01:40
then release to measure your blood
1:01:41
pressure. Um, that seemed to be
1:01:43
interesting, you know, like if that were
1:01:44
true, if the if the they redesigned it
1:01:46
and it allowed new functionality, then
1:01:49
yeah, I'd ditch the old bands in a
1:01:50
second. Um, I bought that fancy uh what
1:01:53
was that one that came out with the
1:01:55
Ultra that it was? [laughter]
1:01:57
>> Yeah, the titanium mesh one. I don't
1:01:59
even know where it is. Um, I put
1:02:01
[laughter]
1:02:02
I got a cheap I got the cheapest Velcro
1:02:04
one. This came in like a six-pack, I
1:02:07
think, on um Amazon for like $8. Uh, and
1:02:12
in fact, I bought a bunch of them that I
1:02:14
that you you can get a you can get all
1:02:16
these knockoff bands on Amazon that are
1:02:18
that that are extremely cheap. um you
1:02:20
know the sport the ocean whatever they
1:02:23
are the the sporty ones and I I've got
1:02:25
packs of those and stuff but yeah you
1:02:27
know like like you Graeme I just I just
1:02:30
stick with this sweaty almost sweaty one
1:02:32
that and I never change it. Um so I
1:02:35
wouldn't really care less. It depend on
1:02:36
if it added new functionality or not.
1:02:39
>> Yeah. Interesting.
1:02:40
>> It Yeah, it depends on what the new
1:02:41
design looks like. I mean, I I got to
1:02:43
say I still remember when they first
1:02:44
flashed the Apple Watch on the screen
1:02:46
during that very first event and I was
1:02:47
just like h gez it's so kind of I don't
1:02:51
know not rugged you know it's it's very
1:02:54
um kind of you know Star Trek looking
1:02:56
you know it's it's smooth and it's
1:02:58
streamlined and it you know I wasn't
1:03:00
instantly going oh my god I got to have
1:03:02
one of those. I was just kind of like
1:03:03
geez that's that's what it looks like.
1:03:05
Huh? That's the design. Um I've gotten
1:03:08
completely used to it when it first came
1:03:09
out.
1:03:10
>> Huh. But
1:03:11
>> I love the design when it first came
1:03:12
out, but I and I still like it now and I
1:03:15
think it's it's fine, but I just feel
1:03:17
like maybe now the people that want
1:03:19
change,
1:03:21
>> maybe now they should be allowed to have
1:03:22
it.
1:03:23
>> I'd like to see them expand the lineup
1:03:24
and and you know, like we we discussed
1:03:26
on on I think it was last week's episode
1:03:28
or maybe the one before where where
1:03:29
there was that rumor that they were
1:03:31
going to, you know, maybe looking at
1:03:32
even screenless Apple watches, but also
1:03:34
maybe a round one. Yeah. Um that I think
1:03:38
would be the way to go, wouldn't it? to
1:03:40
to to to increase the lineup into into
1:03:42
different designs so there would be more
1:03:43
choice. That would be interesting.
1:03:44
>> So against round, but as much as
1:03:46
anything because as a developer that
1:03:48
sounds like a complete nightmare
1:03:49
supporting different different shapes.
1:03:52
>> I thought you had some good points, but
1:03:53
then I went and checked some out and I
1:03:54
thought, "Oh, wow. These are actually
1:03:55
pretty cool. These really look really
1:03:57
cool." And and and and like you said, I
1:04:00
mean, your your criticism was that that
1:04:01
it it everything the sort of
1:04:03
concentration was in the middle,
1:04:05
>> but actually kind of worked. I thought
1:04:06
it kind of worked okay. It didn't work
1:04:08
too bad.
1:04:10
You could do uh maybe they could do a
1:04:12
Apple Watch Pro, slide it in between and
1:04:15
and get have like a transition period,
1:04:17
right, where they have a new one with a
1:04:18
new design and a new band that's
1:04:21
actually better, you know, like like
1:04:24
you're saying additional functionality
1:04:25
or whatever, but it doesn't work with
1:04:27
the old ones, then then people wouldn't
1:04:29
feel abandoned, right? They keep having
1:04:31
the series for a while, few years.
1:04:34
>> Well, with the smart band, what I would
1:04:36
absolutely
1:04:36
>> You should be an executive Apple John.
1:04:38
That's a good idea.
1:04:40
>> The the worst platform in the Apple
1:04:42
ecosphere to develop for without
1:04:44
question is Apple Watch. And the problem
1:04:46
is it just takes so long in Xcode to
1:04:49
compile anything onto the watch because
1:04:51
you can't plug the thing in and it's
1:04:54
slow and just for some reason it's it's
1:04:56
a nightmare. So when I started
1:04:58
developing for Vision Pro, I was a bit
1:05:00
worried because I hadn't got the um
1:05:02
developer band you can get to plug it
1:05:03
in. And so I thought this is going to be
1:05:05
a nightmare like the watch. Uh it's not
1:05:07
going to work with Xcode. But it works
1:05:08
perfectly because it's it's basically
1:05:11
like a it's really an iPad you stick on
1:05:13
your head and uh iPad actually iPad
1:05:16
works iPad is faster with Xcode if you
1:05:18
plug it in but it works fine with Xcode
1:05:21
if you don't plug it in and Vision Pro
1:05:22
is the same. Apple Watch you can't plug
1:05:24
in and it's an absolute nightmare. And
1:05:27
they really need to have some kind of
1:05:29
developer strap for Apple Watch. And I'm
1:05:31
pretty sure that they do internally
1:05:32
because you know when you take the when
1:05:34
you take the strap off an Apple Watch,
1:05:35
there's that little panel. There's
1:05:37
there's a secret panel and there's this
1:05:39
secret connector in there that only
1:05:41
Apple has access to. I do not believe
1:05:43
that Apple develops their own apps for
1:05:45
Apple Watch the way that us mere mortals
1:05:48
are supposed to develop them. You can
1:05:50
really literally sit there for two hours
1:05:53
waiting for the symbols to copy from
1:05:54
Xcode to the watch so that you can
1:05:57
install something on it. And here's the
1:05:59
thing, it stops as soon as you lower
1:06:00
your wrist. You have to keep your wrist
1:06:02
raised.
1:06:03
>> You're kidding.
1:06:04
>> To stop it going to sleep so it can copy
1:06:06
the symbols. And sometimes even with
1:06:08
your wrist raised, it goes to sleep. So,
1:06:09
I've sometimes sat there for an hour
1:06:12
twiddling the digital crown just to keep
1:06:13
the freaking watch awake so that I
1:06:17
>> That sounds like something they would
1:06:19
set up at Guantanamo Bay. Are you
1:06:20
kidding
1:06:22
software on it? It's crazy.
1:06:23
>> Really? I That's That's bizarre. I can't
1:06:25
believe you have to I mean that sounds
1:06:28
physically painful.
1:06:29
>> It is. And I think that's one of the
1:06:31
reasons, one of the unspoken reasons why
1:06:32
the there's so few apps for Apple Watch
1:06:35
because you would have to be an Apple
1:06:37
obsessive like me to really go through
1:06:40
the pain of developing a watch app. So
1:06:43
if they if they came up with a smart
1:06:44
strap that would enabled you to to plug
1:06:46
the watch into to your Mac to compile
1:06:49
from Xcode, that that would be a game
1:06:50
changer. I think that would open up
1:06:52
loads loads more Apple Watch
1:06:54
development. this. You might have come
1:06:55
up with, you know, the best uh reason
1:06:57
yet to have a humanoid robot. Just strap
1:06:59
it on the robot's wrist and have the
1:07:01
robot stand there and, you know, move
1:07:02
around. And
1:07:03
>> this is crazy. I've never heard this
1:07:05
>> do that. [laughter]
1:07:06
>> I had no idea that this was a,
1:07:09
you know, a problem with Apple Watch
1:07:11
development. That's that's crazy.
1:07:13
>> And it's really I mean I the the only
1:07:15
Apple platform I haven't really worked
1:07:16
on is is Apple TV. So I don't know about
1:07:18
that. But a aside from Apple TV, this is
1:07:21
just an Apple Watch problem. The other
1:07:23
platforms are fine, but Apple Watch is
1:07:25
is a nightmare to develop for.
1:07:26
>> Wow.
1:07:29
>> Shall uh I think we're we're running
1:07:31
really long, so I think we should wrap
1:07:34
it up. Um should we do that one thing?
1:07:37
The thing the one thing you hope uh that
1:07:40
John Tennis would change at Apple?
1:07:42
>> Should we do it in like one line?
1:07:43
>> The thing is I couldn't think of
1:07:44
anything so [laughter]
1:07:47
to skip it.
1:07:48
>> Well, no, I still can't think of
1:07:49
anything. I I want John Turners to scrap
1:07:52
the ad business. I think the ad
1:07:54
business, it can't really make Apple
1:07:55
much money in in Apple terms. It's a
1:07:58
drop in the ocean and it's just screwing
1:08:00
up so much of the Apple brand, Apple
1:08:03
trust. It's giving them compliance
1:08:05
issues. So, if John Tennis was to do one
1:08:07
thing for me, it would be scrap their ad
1:08:09
business. Take ads out of Apple Maps. In
1:08:12
fact, take ads out of the App Store as
1:08:14
well. Just take ads out of everywhere
1:08:16
and and take ads for Apple services out
1:08:19
of the user interface of the Mac and
1:08:21
iPhone to just like be classy about
1:08:24
that. No ads.
1:08:25
>> I like it. I uh I had a a a slightly
1:08:29
less easy to accomplish thing. I would
1:08:32
like the software experience to be more
1:08:34
consistent, better, more consistent
1:08:36
across I I would like every device that
1:08:38
I own to do the exact same thing every
1:08:40
time I use it. I I I feel like things
1:08:43
have gotten so complicated in the Apple
1:08:45
ecosystem that things just aren't solid
1:08:48
and I I find that very troubling. You
1:08:51
know, when I go to do something on my
1:08:53
phone and it doesn't work the way it did
1:08:55
yesterday, it or it doesn't exactly work
1:08:57
or same thing. I go to unlock or, you
1:09:01
know, hope that my watch will unlock my
1:09:03
Mac. Oh, well, you know, wireless signal
1:09:06
too weak or, you know, whatever else. I
1:09:09
mean, for for a while, this this is a
1:09:10
crazy one. You know, you get a workout
1:09:12
buddy. Remember workout buddy? You know
1:09:13
how great workout buddy is, right? Tells
1:09:15
you, "Oh, gee. Oh, gee, it's great that
1:09:19
you started your workout today. That's
1:09:21
fantastic. No, you've done the, you
1:09:23
know, give you some stats, blah, blah,
1:09:24
blah." Okay, I'll leave it on for some
1:09:26
reason. I It's a perverse
1:09:29
listen to it. for a while, just for a
1:09:31
while, for like a week or two, uh, that
1:09:35
would come on, stop the podcast I'm
1:09:37
listening to, and when it stopped and it
1:09:40
it would go back to the podcast, the
1:09:41
volume on the podcast would be so low,
1:09:43
it was inaudible. I'm like, why why is
1:09:45
why is this happening?
1:09:46
>> That's a that's a glitch sounds to me
1:09:48
cuz I don't have that problem. You know,
1:09:50
I've got a good tip for you. Um, you can
1:09:52
stop the workout buddy just by pressing
1:09:54
on your AirPods. It'll it'll stop it as
1:09:56
though you're stopping music, you know,
1:09:57
like press pause.
1:09:58
>> Oh, I know. I and you could turn it off.
1:10:00
Uh I I just my point is I don't like it
1:10:05
that one day it does that, the next day
1:10:07
it works fine.
1:10:09
>> Uh the day after that the workout buddy
1:10:11
stops. It doesn't even go back to the
1:10:13
podcast. So I have to go find the
1:10:14
podcast and get it started. So that's
1:10:17
three different ways that it can work.
1:10:19
One is correct. Two are bad. I I I'm
1:10:23
troubled by the badness and I'm even
1:10:25
more troubled by the inconsistency. So,
1:10:29
I I would like them to quit worrying
1:10:30
about adding new features, you know,
1:10:32
like this, you know, they're only going
1:10:33
to fix things up this year. Well, I
1:10:35
mean, like, for real, I would be fine if
1:10:38
they just got everything solid. I don't
1:10:39
even know if it's possible. There's so
1:10:41
many different devices and so many
1:10:42
people running so many different things.
1:10:44
I maybe it's not even possible at this
1:10:45
point, but that's what I would like.
1:10:47
>> There's a focus on quality rather than
1:10:49
endlessly adding more features.
1:10:51
>> Yes. Specifically with software.
1:10:53
>> Yeah. But the quality is so is still
1:10:55
very much there on the harbor, isn't it?
1:10:57
But I I agree with you. The software has
1:10:58
been an issue.
1:10:59
>> Yeah. And that's why Federiki is not
1:11:01
running Apple right now.
1:11:04
>> All right, let's wrap it up there. I
1:11:06
think uh that's all that uh we have time
1:11:09
for this week. Please give us a a rating
1:11:11
on uh Apple podcast or any other podcast
1:11:13
app that you use. And please share the
1:11:15
show with anyone you think like to
1:11:16
listen. Text us a message at
1:11:18
cultmackpodcast.com,
1:11:20
which I still haven't set up, but I will
1:11:21
get it set up this week. Uh send us
1:11:23
questions, comments, and feedback for
1:11:24
the show. It's all complicated the way
1:11:27
it has to be set up. I got to get a
1:11:28
dedicated device for it because I can't,
1:11:30
you know, it's an Apple ID, so
1:11:32
>> across the river sticks.
1:11:34
>> Uh yeah, but I do I do actually have
1:11:36
I've got an iPad here that uh that I'll
1:11:39
use for this. Um and anyway, well,
1:11:42
thanks a lot. Thanks for listening.
1:11:43
Thanks for watching. We'll see you all
1:11:44
next time. Have a great weekend,
1:11:45
everybody.
1:11:46
>> Bye. See you.
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