Up next in 10
This week: The Vision Pro may be dead for good, iPhone bezels may be dead for good, Apple Intelligence features may be revived, and how long the MacBook Neo may last.
Produced by Extra Ordinary for Cult of Mac
Music composed by Will Davenport, arranged by D. Griffin Jones
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
1:37 - Vision Pro team disbanded?
10:37 - 20th anniversary bezel-free iPhone
17:30 - Apple Intelligence photo editing
23:35 - Visual Intelligence in the camera
38:01 - Listener Question
44:39 - Review (Part 1)
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Coming up, the Vision Pro may be dead
0:02
for good. iPhone bezels may also be dead
0:05
for good. Apple intelligence features
0:07
may be revived. And how long the MacBook
0:10
Neo may last.
0:13
Welcome to the Call of Mac podcast. I'm
0:15
your host Ner Katy. Joining me today is
0:17
Lewis Wallace. Hey Louis.
0:19
>> Hello. How's it going?
0:21
>> That's very good. Very good. Thank you.
0:22
And we also have D. Griffin Jones.
0:24
What's up, Griffin?
0:24
>> Good evening. I I hate to start the show
0:26
with some bad news, but unfortunately
0:28
the cult of Mac Apple financial earnings
0:30
call live streamathon, which normally
0:33
begins right after I I publish the show,
0:35
is uh sadly cancelled. The uh fire
0:38
breathers I hired came down with
0:40
Diptheria, which you know does does
0:42
hinder their fire breathing abilities.
0:44
So, um I don't know. I think Jason Snell
0:47
does a live stream. You can watch that
0:48
instead. Sorry everybody.
0:51
>> Well, [laughter] a lot
0:52
>> some good news though. Uh, YouTube
0:53
viewers may [sighs] who are eagle-eyed
0:56
may notice that I bought yet another
0:57
thing,
0:59
a acrylic stand for my e-ac. It's the
1:02
the special rare little stand that you
1:05
can put your e-ac on to make it kind of
1:06
swivel and spin and rotate around.
1:08
>> I can't see it. Can you see it, Louis?
1:11
>> What? Are you kidding me? I barely see
1:13
anything. [laughter]
1:15
>> It's acrylic, right? See-through. So,
1:16
how could you see it?
1:18
>> I can't. It's It's unfortunately it's
1:20
clipped so I can't uh you know get the
1:23
the widescreen view. Too bad. I'll have
1:25
to save it for the uh
1:27
>> You'll have to rewatch the video later.
1:29
[laughter]
1:29
>> There's a reason to turn it up.
1:34
>> All right. Well, let's get started with
1:35
the show. Um it's an action-packed show.
1:38
All sorts of crazy news. In fact, here's
1:40
But unfortunately, we're going to start
1:41
with a bit of a bummer, aren't we? This
1:42
is This is not This is kind of sad.
1:44
>> Uh more than just kind of sad. Apple may
1:47
have pulled the plug on Vision Pro. This
1:49
is a quote. Apple has apparently stopped
1:52
work on the Vision Pro. Um, and the
1:55
Vision Pro team has been redistributed
1:57
to other teams within Apple. Apple CEO
2:00
Tim Cook was reportedly a champion of
2:02
the Vision Pro and Vision OS, but he's
2:04
now a lame duck. He is departing as head
2:06
of the company at the end of the summer.
2:08
John Turnis, Apple's upcoming CEO,
2:12
supposedly opposed the development of
2:13
Vision Pro. It may have been his his
2:15
decision to stop putting money into a
2:18
project that's seen little success. So,
2:21
yep. No new Vision Pro hardware. I think
2:24
last we heard a quick recap, you know,
2:27
they had the M5 spec bump version. They
2:29
were also developing a more affordable
2:32
Vision Pro that was going to have like
2:34
an allnew design that was going to be
2:36
cheaper to manufacture. They were also
2:38
working on a complete redesign like
2:41
fully next generation Vision Pro. I
2:43
think that was the only thing they were
2:45
working on and that is that is now
2:47
canned as well. So, no new Vision Pro
2:50
hardware. I guess they're they're going
2:52
to keep making the M5 one as long as
2:56
they can. I don't know. It's Apple's
2:59
never like discontinued a major product
3:01
in the modern era before, you know, a
3:03
site, you know, that hasn't been
3:05
obviously replaced like, you know, the
3:07
iPhone replaced the iPod and they slowly
3:09
wound down making iPods, but everybody
3:11
could see that coming. Um, the Vision
3:13
Pro it might I mean the question is like
3:15
what happens to Vision OS like they
3:17
they're still selling these things now.
3:20
How long are they going to support it or
3:22
keep working on it?
3:24
>> It's an open question. So
3:25
>> wasn't the Vision Pro? I mean it's not
3:26
really a consumer product is it's a
3:28
developer product and so it's for people
3:32
who are making you know 3D content 3D
3:36
experiences
3:38
um uh which for for the upcoming AR
3:42
glasses isn't that what it's for really
3:44
>> I mean it's pitched as a consumer
3:46
product but
3:47
>> it seems to be more for laying the
3:49
groundwork for this next generation of
3:50
of consu you know of of AR glasses which
3:52
are the true consumer product
3:54
>> so so what they have in the pipeline
3:56
line the um you know Apple's been
3:58
waiting interest in the Vision Pro as it
4:00
ramps up efforts on a related product,
4:02
the smart glasses. Uh but you know the
4:04
first generation smart glasses aren't
4:07
going to offer any augmented reality
4:09
features at all. They're not going to
4:10
have a built-in screen. you know, they
4:12
they'll be for playing music, they'll be
4:13
for taking pictures, but they're not
4:15
going to be I mean, they're not going to
4:16
run vision OS. Uh supposedly like it'll
4:19
it'll be like many years down the road
4:22
before we have AR glasses that are
4:26
powerful enough to run vision OS. Does
4:28
Vision OS keep a lot of active
4:31
development just like spinning its
4:32
wheels on the same exact hardware in the
4:35
five years it takes for that to happen?
4:38
>> Well, sounds like not now. Yeah,
4:40
>> there's another weird thing about this.
4:42
You know, the original the report said
4:43
that this happened a year ago and that
4:45
um the reassignment of the hardware and
4:47
the software teams happened last year,
4:50
which kind of like, you know, calls into
4:52
question whether this is sort of, you
4:54
know, John Turnis chopping, you know,
4:58
swinging his axe. It it definitely
5:00
wasn't taking off like they they'd hoped
5:01
to. Obviously, you know, was it, you
5:02
know, it hasn't set the world on fire,
5:04
although there was some crazy stuff. You
5:06
know, I was looking at a um
5:09
uh a uh a short teaser video for some
5:12
new desktop environment that looked
5:14
incredible. Like it looked unbelievable
5:16
that the this uh this this working
5:18
environment.
5:18
>> There's a lot of exciting interesting
5:20
things that you could do with the
5:21
hardware. But I think one of the big
5:23
problems with the Vision Pro is that
5:25
it's like Mac level expensive, but it's
5:28
iPhone level locked down. There's a lot
5:31
of fascinating things you could do when
5:33
you have a powerful computer with an M5
5:36
chip that can, you know, place things
5:39
very convincingly in your real
5:41
environment that has powerful graphics
5:42
in it. But when it's not easy to make
5:46
apps for it, when the market for making
5:48
apps is small, when it's so limited and
5:51
that there aren't a lot of APIs for you
5:53
to directly access the the camera or the
5:55
environment, it makes a safer consumer
5:57
product, but it also doesn't inspire
6:00
excitement among developers. And it also
6:02
didn't help that it came at like a, you
6:04
know, a souring point in the
6:06
relationship between Apple and the
6:08
developer community that people aren't
6:10
excited enough to make really cool stuff
6:12
for it. And that kills any momentum like
6:15
and the the developers who are making
6:17
cool apps for it like Steve Troutton
6:19
Smith made excellent first-party
6:21
versions of a lot of his apps. Um I saw
6:24
you know people were posting about this
6:25
on Macedon there was a a developer who
6:28
made a um the the app forcore which is
6:31
like for a sheet music management
6:33
management app. He made a native vision
6:36
OS version of his app and he said that
6:40
he sold 70 units and he averages now 10
6:44
users per month. It's just not worth it.
6:47
>> That's a very good point. You know, like
6:49
um uh you know, like I was saying, if if
6:51
it's for developers, the circle hasn't
6:53
been completed, has it? I mean, okay,
6:55
they may be turning out great apps,
6:56
great content, but who's going to buy
6:58
it? Who's who's
6:59
>> it's okay. You don't need to have a uh a
7:02
big user base if you're just making a
7:03
passion project, but it's not fun being
7:06
an Apple developer right now. People
7:09
people don't want to do that for fun.
7:11
It's not,
7:12
>> you know, so so so people aren't people
7:14
aren't buying into it. That's not
7:15
something anybody people are aspiring to
7:17
do. And I think that's killing a lot of
7:19
the platform. Like, yeah, a lot of the
7:21
ways that people see that people are
7:23
reminded of the Vision Pro on social
7:24
media is, "Oh, I built this cool thing
7:26
for Vision OS, but there's just, you
7:28
know, how often is that? Like once every
7:30
other month,
7:32
>> right? Are you bummed about it then?
7:34
>> I feel like John Srausa with the Mac
7:36
Pro. You know, I I spent a lot of money
7:38
on this thing and uh you know, it's
7:40
presumably it's still good for what I
7:42
use it for. like I can carry on using my
7:44
M2 Vision Pro for work and it's still
7:47
what I prefer to watch TV shows. It's,
7:50
you know, better than my TV. It's
7:52
because I can take it with me on a
7:54
virtual screen into every every room in
7:56
my house. I I watch every episode of For
7:58
All Mankind on it. I'll probably still
8:01
keep doing that. It's It's good for
8:02
watching Doctor Who. It's a good immer
8:04
immersive writing [laughter]
8:04
environment. But
8:06
>> with that Doctor Who connection, I can't
8:08
believe it never took off. [laughter]
8:11
Not just talk to you, like if you're
8:12
watching anything and you want to like
8:14
take notes simultaneously, it's better
8:16
than like watching on TV and typing on
8:18
your phone because I can have, you know,
8:20
my notes window just as big like right
8:22
next to it. It it's really great for
8:23
that. Um, so it presumably it'll still
8:26
work for the few things I want to use it
8:28
for. You know, it's not like I was in
8:30
the market to buy a new Vision Pro any
8:32
every year anyway. But do I want Vision
8:35
OS to stay static exactly where it is in
8:38
Vision OS 26? No. There's a so much more
8:41
advanced features I want to see in that
8:42
operating system in that platform that I
8:44
don't think I think this is a sign that
8:46
it I I need to stop holding my breath.
8:49
Nothing it's not going to get any better
8:50
than it is already which is really sad.
8:53
>> It's really sad.
8:55
>> Yeah,
8:55
>> because it is a very exciting product.
8:57
>> Yeah, it's a strange product, isn't it?
8:58
It's so strange because it it is a
9:00
really amazing experience like the that
9:02
the the media experiences are
9:04
astonishing. They're definitely
9:05
jaw-dropping. like it, but at the same
9:07
time it's isolating.
9:09
Um, and it's kind of, you know, it
9:12
doesn't have a killer use case unless
9:13
you're opam, you know, some kind of eye
9:15
surgeon.
9:17
>> Well, what a lot of people say the
9:18
killer use case is is the uh spatial
9:20
video calls. I hear that's excellent. I
9:22
really want to try it out. Um, but
9:25
>> well, some awful horrible video
9:27
conferencing where everyone's an avatar.
9:29
Woo. I've heard people say that the
9:31
spatial FaceTime calls, they they almost
9:34
feel like hanging out in person and you
9:37
can do it, you know, from across the
9:40
world. So, I I really want to give that
9:41
a try, but I don't have any close
9:43
friends who have a Vision Pro, so
9:44
>> Well, I've got one which I haven't
9:45
picked up in about a year. [laughter]
9:47
>> Yeah.
9:49
>> It's certainly I'm looking at right now.
9:50
It's covered in about three inches of
9:52
dust. Um
9:54
>> Well, let's do it. Let's I uh all we
9:56
need is a third person who has one.
9:59
>> Maybe we can find Well, maybe we can
10:01
find actually maybe there's a listener
10:02
if any of the listener has a a vision
10:04
pro and uh wants to join us on a really
10:06
exciting [laughter]
10:08
experimental call. We'll uh we'll fire
10:10
that up. I I'd be very curious to try
10:12
that out.
10:13
>> Let's give a shot.
10:15
>> Griffin could open up a couple of
10:16
spreadsheets and look at uh [laughter]
10:19
>> Yeah. imagine how our conversation right
10:21
now could be enhanced if we could see
10:23
some charts. We could watch Doctor Who
10:25
together.
10:26
>> Oh, yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
10:27
>> The last episodes from 1953 or whatever
10:30
it was.
10:31
>> Oh, yeah. The I I watch those, by the
10:33
way. They're very good.
10:33
>> Oh, boy. [laughter]
10:35
>> Okay, great. All right, let's move on to
10:38
um our next story, which is about the
10:40
20th anniversary phone, which is uh the
10:43
20th anniversary may say goodbye to
10:45
bezels. Apple could be preparing one of
10:47
the most dramatic iPhone redesigns in
10:50
its history. Who wrote this? with a 20th
10:52
anniversary model that would eliminate
10:54
screen bezels entirely. Uh, a recent
10:56
post from Leica Ice Universe X claims
10:58
the 2027 iPhone will seemly lack any
11:01
screen bezels, the black edges around
11:02
the display for a fully immersive all
11:05
screen experience. Quote, "Apple may
11:07
define it next generation display as a
11:10
liquid glass display." End quote. Um,
11:14
however, Apple is unlikely to adopt the
11:15
kind of aggressively curved waterfall
11:17
display seen on older Android phones.
11:19
Instead, the device will use a
11:20
sophisticated combination of optical
11:22
refraction light guiding structures and
11:25
carefully engineered visual illusion
11:26
reports ice universe. I'm not sure I've
11:29
ever read a monoscal ascendance in my
11:31
life. What the hell does that mean?
11:33
[laughter]
11:35
[snorts] Apparently, the goal is a is a
11:37
uh quote a display where the bezel
11:40
nearly disappears from sight while
11:41
viewing edge viewing remains natural and
11:44
undisturbed. It flows like liquid, yet
11:46
stays as pure and transparent as glass.
11:50
Apple likely won't use a traditional
11:51
curved glass screen. Curved glass
11:53
distorts what's shown. They're more
11:55
fragile and cases don't easily fit over
11:56
them. Also, uh the front facing cable
11:59
was probably under display. Okay.
12:02
Did you look at the I looked at the the
12:04
renderings and I I got to admit I was
12:06
kind of completely underwhelmed. Did you
12:08
What do you guys think?
12:09
>> Kind of looks like an iPhone 10.
12:11
>> Yeah, right. Didn't Apple do this
12:13
before? Well,
12:15
>> kind of
12:18
>> you know, they're they're talking about
12:20
this being like, you know, so completely
12:23
smooth, you know, like basically what
12:25
they've, you know, has always been the
12:27
holy grail is just a a slab of glass,
12:29
right? And it and the curves and and all
12:32
that stuff that you thought was
12:33
nonsensical or whatever. I mean, you
12:34
know, that sounds kind of cool. You
12:35
know, they they make it so that it
12:37
lights up in a certain way or whatever,
12:38
you know, and and and so that it it
12:40
really looks like just a piece of glass.
12:43
I think that's what the the the leak, if
12:45
that's what it is, uh was saying.
12:48
>> I think the rendering looks cool. I
12:49
mean, I I I always bounce between my my
12:53
iPhone, you know, [snorts] 16 Pro and I
12:55
still use my iPhone 12 Pro for a few
12:57
work things and every time I pick it up,
12:59
I think, oh, the bezels on this are a
13:00
lot thicker. anytime I go to, you know,
13:02
I pick up an old iPhone 10, if I need
13:04
like a a third phone to, you know, help
13:07
me take a picture of something, you
13:09
know, the bezels on that are even
13:10
chunkier. Like, you know, year over
13:12
year, it seems like a marginal
13:14
difference, but then you go like all the
13:17
way back to the iPhone 10 or the iPhone,
13:19
you know, especially before the iPhone
13:20
10, it's like, wow, you really notice
13:22
like how much thicker the black lines
13:24
are around the edge. And so, this is
13:26
taking it to the absolute conclusion and
13:29
I'm excited about it. I probably won't
13:31
have it because I'll be, you know,
13:32
buying the folding iPhone instead, which
13:35
is gonna have kind of chunky bezels. I
13:36
mean, this is iPad. That thing's huge.
13:38
It [laughter] looks like a
13:39
>> looks like a freaking picture frame.
13:41
>> Yeah.
13:42
>> Yeah. I mean, and it's true. I mean, you
13:44
know, they get smaller and smaller over
13:45
time and then eventually you go back and
13:47
look at old one, you're like, "Whoa,
13:48
wow. This was like cutting edge."
13:52
>> I think this
13:53
>> I don't know.
13:54
>> They do look primitive, don't they? In
13:55
in retrospect,
13:57
it does make it look really primitive,
13:59
but you know, it's I wonder what are
14:01
they going to do about the the the um
14:03
the the the you know, the delicacy of
14:05
the screen. I mean, like they said, you
14:07
can't you can't put a screen protector
14:08
on it. You're probably going to have a
14:10
chunky fat case on it anyway.
14:12
Um
14:14
how are they going to stop it getting
14:15
smashed or people stop putting cases
14:17
around it, you know, that that's going
14:18
to like completely ruin the effect
14:20
anyway? And maybe have a transparent
14:22
case like a, you know,
14:24
>> a clear case would would show it off.
14:26
Yeah. Or maybe you could even have a a
14:27
case that's like clear around the edges
14:30
but still has like a fun color or
14:31
pattern on the back.
14:33
>> Do you think I mean is this enough for
14:34
the 20th anniversary? Like is this is
14:36
this cool enough to make the 20th
14:39
anniversary phone like a a must have?
14:41
>> It's definitely not going to be as
14:42
dramatic as iPhone 7 to iPhone 10. Well,
14:45
the the the original design spec was
14:47
like to have um you know, Johnny I what
14:51
do they call it? It was like supposed to
14:52
be like an infinity pool
14:54
>> the the screen. Uh
14:57
>> and [clears throat] the Android ones I
14:58
mean they had you could do all these
14:59
things on it, couldn't you? On the side
15:01
of the screen like adjust the volume and
15:02
stuff like that. There was some kind of
15:03
cool UI stuff that they they tried to
15:05
implement but I don't think really went
15:07
anywhere.
15:08
>> I think it was tried to implement is the
15:09
is the key.
15:12
>> Yeah. Well, would you get that or the f
15:13
or the ultra? The folding one. Which one
15:15
do you think?
15:16
>> I'm interested in the folding one
15:17
because I I think it's more exciting
15:19
having a phone that can uh you know
15:20
change sizes like that.
15:22
>> Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah, this is
15:24
going to be I think I predict this is
15:25
going to be like the the air, the iPhone
15:26
air, you know.
15:27
>> Really? You don't think this is going to
15:28
be like just the iPhone
15:31
19 Pro is just going to be like this?
15:34
>> Well, I mean its fate is going to be
15:35
like the iPhone air. I a bust.
15:37
>> Oh, [laughter]
15:39
you know, it looks cool. Everyone wants
15:41
it. everyone like, you know, ooh, this
15:43
plays it at the Apple store, but then no
15:45
one buys it.
15:47
>> Why do you think nobody would buy it?
15:49
>> Well, you know, I probably for those
15:51
reasons, they're afraid it's going to
15:52
get smashed. You know, what's it going
15:53
to do in the case? All those kind of
15:54
stuff. I don't know. We'll see. I mean,
15:56
I'm I'm just purely making stuff up, but
15:59
>> if this is like what the iPhone 19 Pro
16:01
is just like, then, you know, you won't
16:02
really have any other choice.
16:04
>> Yeah, [laughter]
16:05
maybe maybe they won't.
16:06
>> I don't I don't think people are going
16:07
to sit around and go, "Oh, gee, I'm
16:08
afraid I'm going to drop it." I mean,
16:11
does anybody ever actually like
16:12
legitimately think that?
16:14
>> Well, like the iPhone Air right now, I
16:16
mean, people are afraid about the
16:17
battery life and the c the crummy
16:19
cameras and
16:20
>> Well, that's that's a whole different
16:22
thing than, oh, I might drop it. What
16:24
happens if I drop it? I mean, and if you
16:27
get an iPhone air and you put a case on
16:29
it, you still know that it's an iPhone
16:30
air. you still like
16:32
>> it's still thinner than an iPhone 17 Pro
16:34
in a case. So, you're still getting a
16:36
little bit of the thinness, but uh yeah,
16:38
complete edgetoedge screen in a case. I
16:40
mean, that's just not edgeto edge
16:42
anymore.
16:43
>> Maybe maybe it'll be so tough that you
16:45
won't need a case.
16:47
>> Yeah.
16:48
>> Well, the ceramic glasstop stuff is is,
16:50
you know, I mean, my my phone's held up.
16:52
>> This and the previous generation um I
16:54
mean I dropped I it flew out of my hand
16:56
the other day. It kind of went about 18
16:58
feet in the air and then went face down
17:00
on the concrete. I thought, "Oh my god,
17:02
that that's had it." But not a not a
17:04
mark on it. Although the I do have a
17:06
screen protector and the screen
17:07
protector's got a few chips on it.
17:08
>> And it's also in a case, you know.
17:10
>> It's in a case, too. Yeah, for sure.
17:12
>> Okay. So, that doesn't really say
17:13
anything then. [laughter]
17:15
>> Well, for sure on previous phones, I
17:18
think a drop like that would would have
17:20
cause some damage.
17:22
>> Maybe. Uh, but yeah. Anyway, all right,
17:26
let's move on before we get dig a deeper
17:28
hole. [laughter]
17:30
Le, let's talk about AI uh on photo
17:32
editing. I thought this really sounded
17:34
kind of cool, actually.
17:36
>> Yeah, the headline is Apple bets on AI
17:38
to reinvent iPhone photo editing in iOS
17:41
27. Uh news is that the photos app is
17:44
going to be redesigned and uh it's have
17:46
totally new editing interface with a
17:49
group of new capabilities under the
17:51
Apple intelligence tools section.
17:54
Uh [laughter]
17:56
let's see one of them is so there's a
17:58
trio of tools. One is extend which
18:01
allows users to expand an image beyond
18:03
its original frame by generating
18:05
additional content. We've seen this in
18:07
other uh other things other places
18:10
obviously uh you know like you might
18:12
have a tightly cropped photo that you
18:14
could widen it to show an AI generated
18:16
background or you know fill in the
18:18
forest you know whatever. Uh, as
18:21
Bloomberg, this report comes from
18:22
Bloomberg. As Bloomberg described it,
18:24
quote, "Someone could take a close-up
18:26
photo of a landmark and use the tool to
18:28
fill in surrounding scenery." Another
18:30
[clears throat] tool called Enhance
18:32
focuses on automatic improvements to
18:33
image quality, including lighting,
18:35
color, and overall clarity, which I
18:37
mean, that would be awesome. I use
18:39
something like that in uh actually I use
18:41
it in Pixelmator Pro and half the time I
18:44
revert it because it's like it doesn't
18:45
actually look better. Uh,
18:47
>> okay. Very promising.
18:49
>> Not not encouraging. Uh, let's see. A
18:51
third feature, refframe, adjusts an
18:53
image images perspective, particularly
18:56
for spatial images, give users more
18:58
flexibility in how a photo is composed
18:59
after it has been taken.
19:02
Uh, some of these more advanced
19:04
features, particularly those generate or
19:05
reshape image content, reportedly ran
19:07
into problems during internal testing.
19:09
[laughter]
19:10
Those difficulties could force Apple to
19:12
quote delay or scale back the features
19:14
depending on improvements to its
19:16
underlying models.
19:18
>> Wow. according to Bloomberg. So, you
19:19
know, it's like everything else. Yeah,
19:20
they're betting big on AI and maybe
19:22
it'll work and maybe it won't. I mean,
19:25
we've all used the uh what's it called?
19:27
The cleanup tool, right? Works
19:29
sometimes, sometimes it doesn't. This is
19:33
a way bigger deal though, right?
19:35
>> The extend feature could be handy,
19:36
especially I run into that when I'm
19:38
trying to rotate a photo. Like, it's a
19:41
little skew. I try to rotate it, but
19:42
then, you know, it has to cut off the
19:45
corners that I wanted there originally.
19:47
And if it could fill them in instead, I
19:49
mean, that that would be handy.
19:51
>> And I would trust that for, you know,
19:53
pictures that I take in my studio where
19:55
it's against a desk on the bottom half
19:57
and a plain beige wall on the upper
20:00
half. [laughter]
20:02
>> Well, right. But if it, you know, what
20:03
in a landscape or something like that
20:05
where um, you know, it adds a bunch of
20:08
stuff that's not there. [laughter]
20:10
>> Yeah.
20:11
>> Deer.
20:11
>> That that could be dicey.
20:13
>> I mean, and this is probably the one
20:14
that they're running the most problems
20:15
with, right? I mean, that's that sounds
20:18
pretty ambitious for them. You know,
20:20
that's the kind of thing that can go
20:22
wrong real wrong, right? Real wrong,
20:24
real fast. Uh something like the enhance
20:26
tool that just, you know, brightens up
20:28
an image, you know, makes
20:30
>> Well, they already have that sharper,
20:32
[snorts]
20:32
>> you know, the magic or whatever it's
20:34
called.
20:35
>> Yeah. So, is it good?
20:37
>> Maybe it'll be better.
20:38
>> It usually works most of the time. I you
20:40
know I think
20:41
>> the article calls out reframe as being
20:44
similar to spatial images cuz that
20:47
that's a thing that's you know if you if
20:49
you generate like a spatial scene for a
20:51
lock screen or something that you know
20:52
that that's a feature where you can tilt
20:53
it around and it has a little bit of a
20:55
parallax effect you know it has to use
20:57
AI for that to be able to fill in like
21:00
okay what's the background you know
21:03
around my head so that it you know when
21:05
you tilt it it can move it around. Um,
21:08
and I think, you know, it's good enough
21:09
for a lock screen or as a as a cool
21:13
trick, but do I really want to like edit
21:16
the saved canonical version of a photo
21:19
to be that? Like it's if you really pay
21:22
attention to how to how it tries to fill
21:24
in the background. Sometimes it it's a
21:26
little weird. It gets things wrong in,
21:29
you know, weird ways once you you know,
21:31
be once you know what to look for. Like
21:34
for example, I mean the the palm tree
21:36
behind me on this video, like that's a
21:38
complex shape. Uh if you're trying to
21:40
extend it behind me, it I I wouldn't
21:43
trust it to get it right. Especially if
21:45
I'm hiding a completely weird object
21:47
behind me in the frame. Like I have a
21:49
computer sitting, you know, framed
21:50
behind me that you can't normally see
21:52
until I move out of the way. Like
21:53
>> Well, exactly. I mean, this is a
21:55
philosophical debate, isn't it? you know
21:56
like about your pictures you know are
21:58
you I guess you know already people are
22:01
already complaining that the
22:02
computational pipeline
22:04
>> isn't a true representation of reality
22:06
anyway and this is not without even
22:08
adding any any you know stuff that's
22:10
been completely hallucinated maybe it'll
22:13
save two versions I don't know or you
22:15
could have an option to do that I mean
22:16
would you want to do that I
22:17
>> that's what I think it would do
22:18
>> if you're going to if you're going to do
22:20
this crazy AI stuff it'll you know with
22:23
Apple I'm sure it'll it'll duplicate it
22:24
and it'll put in the metadata data that
22:26
it's AI. I I bet you
22:28
>> it's like what it's worth.
22:30
>> Samsung, we're taking pictures of the
22:31
moon, you know, [laughter] right?
22:34
>> It's it's that kind of scenario. Um
22:38
[laughter]
22:39
>> that was such a crazy story,
22:41
>> right?
22:42
>> Well, yeah,
22:44
>> but then it's like where do you where on
22:46
the low end of that? Where do you draw
22:47
the line? Like if you use Apple's image
22:49
cleanup tool to like just erase dust on,
22:53
you know, a glass table that looks a
22:56
little unsightly, well, should I add the
22:58
AI generated tag to that
23:00
>> if Yeah. Like what's the difference
23:02
between that and using like the cleanup
23:04
tool in Pixelmator Pro that existed well
23:07
before, you know, AI tools were as
23:09
advanced? Like functionally I'm doing
23:11
the same thing like eliminating dust
23:14
using Apple's image cleanup tool or
23:15
doing it in Pixelmator Pro, but
23:17
Pixelmator Pro doesn't need to add that
23:19
AI generated tag to it. What's the
23:21
difference? You know, it's it's a little
23:23
fuzzy.
23:24
>> Well, until you get into that kind of
23:25
Stalin type scenario where you're
23:27
completely removing, you know, your ex
23:30
from all your all your old wedding
23:32
pictures and stuff like [laughter] that.
23:33
>> Mhm.
23:34
>> Yeah. All right. Well, there's some
23:36
other some other stuff, too. We got kind
23:37
of confused about this, didn't we? um
23:39
when we were looking at these stories
23:40
cuz uh there's there's a bunch of Siri
23:43
there's a new Siri camera mode coming to
23:46
um uh the the iPhone camera which
23:49
actually this sounded this sounded
23:50
interesting as well. Why don't you tell
23:52
us what it is?
23:53
>> Yeah, I don't know why we got so
23:54
confused but we sure did. We were just
23:56
going back and forth like does it do
23:58
whatever. So, all this really is they're
24:00
talking about here is adding the visual
24:02
intelligence thing into the camera app
24:04
as like a another mode, you know, like
24:06
now you've got photo, you got video, you
24:08
got portrait. Now there'll be uh a Siri
24:11
camera mode and and that and if you take
24:13
a picture with that, it launches visual
24:15
intelligence, which is, you know,
24:17
currently you have to use camera control
24:18
button to do. And honestly, I I have a I
24:22
have a difficult time remembering how to
24:24
to trigger that. I use it so
24:25
infrequently. I I go and I like a lot of
24:29
times I try to start the camera with the
24:30
camera control. I screw up and I've got
24:33
visual intelligence running or vice
24:34
versa. I don't I don't know why. I just
24:36
haven't used the camera control enough
24:38
to like have the muscle memory to to use
24:40
it properly. I'm a What can you
24:42
do? Uh I [laughter]
24:44
I I still to this day launch the camera
24:46
almost every time by either tapping the
24:49
app icon on my home screen or the little
24:52
button on the on the lock screen.
24:54
>> You've got to remove that. change it
24:55
because then it'll train yourself. This
24:56
is what I This is what happened to me.
24:58
Uh
24:58
>> force me to use the camera control.
25:00
>> Yeah. And and and once you get used to
25:02
it, it works great. It's way better. Way
25:04
way way better.
25:05
>> Yeah. I
25:08
>> uh Anyway, so
25:09
>> okay.
25:10
>> I mean, [laughter]
25:11
>> I don't I don't take much enthusiasm for
25:13
that.
25:14
>> Uh it's all right. I mean, I guess it's
25:16
okay. Uh the visual intelligence stuff,
25:18
I mean, I've used it a fair amount. Uh I
25:21
even after I just said I don't use it
25:22
that often. I have used it like
25:24
specifically when I go out on a hike or
25:25
something to try to uh you know identify
25:28
a a plant or you know I just like how
25:31
it's a a dedicated simpler interface for
25:35
doing um for like scanning QR codes or
25:39
you know doing something with live text
25:40
like I want to like copy a a serial code
25:43
off of that. I just like how visual
25:44
intelligence is a simpler interface for
25:46
that. you know, it's not cluttered with
25:48
all of the typical camera UI.
25:50
>> Yeah. Right. And it seems I mean, right
25:52
now it seems, you know, fairly useful,
25:54
right? I mean, if you remember to use it
25:56
and you trigger it properly, uh I I I
25:59
find it to be pretty pretty effective.
26:01
And so they're also in addition to the
26:03
stuff it already does, they're they're
26:04
talking about uh you know adding some
26:07
some things to it. You know, like in
26:09
case you don't know right now, you can
26:10
point it at you know a storefront, a
26:12
plant, an animal, concert poster. Uh you
26:15
can you know Siri can answer the
26:17
question or you chat it can shovel it
26:19
off to chat GBT or Google do like a
26:22
reverse image search get in instant
26:24
information. You know it is pretty good
26:26
at at identifying plants and things like
26:28
that. But you can do things like uh
26:30
point it at a a a club listing or
26:33
something and and or an event, right?
26:36
And it'll add it to your calendar if you
26:37
want it to. Or you can point it at a a
26:40
storefront and and see a a phone number
26:42
menu, stuff like that. So, uh, but in
26:44
iOS 27 supposedly, they're working on
26:46
these new things that will add new
26:48
capabilities on top of that. Uh, be able
26:50
to scan nutrition labels on food
26:52
packaging to automatically log dietary
26:54
data. Okay, that could be good for
26:56
calorie counters and macro counters. Uh,
27:00
capture contact information directly
27:01
from what the camera sees. No manual
27:03
interior required. So, you know, sounds
27:05
like a a solid upgrade to what you
27:07
already have. And plus, they're going to
27:08
put it in the camera so it's just kind
27:09
of staring you in the face every time
27:11
you launch the camera. you know, and and
27:13
supposedly, let's just say, it says
27:14
there's going to be a redesigned shutter
27:16
button style intelligence logo. Great.
27:20
Uh,
27:21
pressing and holding camera control
27:23
still trigger the feature, but open Siri
27:25
mode within the camera rather than
27:26
launching a separate standalone
27:27
interface. So, maybe they'll ruin it for
27:30
you, Griffin. Your separate standalone
27:31
interface will go away, and now you'll
27:32
be dumped right into the camera and hate
27:34
it.
27:35
>> It is also nicer that in iOS 26, they
27:38
simplified the camera interface anyway.
27:40
They hide all the a lot of the buttons.
27:42
They hide a lot of the different camera
27:44
modes. So, if I were to use the regular,
27:46
you know, get the regular iOS 26 camera
27:48
interface, I guess that wouldn't be so
27:50
bad. Anyways,
27:52
>> I've been using a lot to like identify
27:53
um products and things. Oh, I came
27:55
across a snake the other day. This giant
27:56
snake.
27:57
>> I thought, oh,
27:59
>> yeah, it was it was like a boa
28:01
constrictor. Well, I'm not exaggerating,
28:02
but [laughter] it wasn't.
28:04
>> And you're like, where were you? Okay,
28:05
wait. Hold hold hold still stay right
28:07
there. Let me get really close and take
28:08
a picture with my phone.
28:09
>> That's what I Well, I was actually I
28:11
zoomed in because I wasn't getting too
28:13
close to this thing.
28:13
>> I'd be zooming out.
28:16
>> Zoom out.
28:17
>> It looked like you heard all these
28:19
stories. I mean, how many people in
28:20
California died this year from
28:21
rattlesnake bites? It's like off the
28:23
charts, isn't it? You know, four or
28:24
something like that. But it's enough
28:26
here to make him very concerned. This
28:28
thing is a faux um it was a faux
28:30
rattlesnake. It's a Pacific garder
28:32
snake, which actually is it it often it
28:35
looks like a rattlesnake. It has a
28:36
rattling or I think has a rattling tail.
28:39
>> Come on.
28:40
>> Yeah, but it's completely harmless.
28:42
>> Strap-on rattle. [laughter]
28:45
>> Well, it it you know, it's it's
28:47
>> a California poser snake.
28:50
>> It eats rats and stuff. So, um and
28:53
gophers, so it uh it it's it's it's
28:55
harmless to humans. But yeah, definitely
28:57
definitely kind of, you know, pretty
28:58
alarming thing.
28:59
>> Where'd you see it?
29:01
>> Up in Soma Sonoma County.
29:04
you like on a hike or was it in the
29:05
parking lot of a winery or what?
29:07
>> Yeah. Yeah, I'll put a hike. Yeah.
29:08
>> Okay. See, stay on stay on paved
29:10
surfaces. You'll probably be okay.
29:12
>> Well, this is, you know, right right by
29:13
the right by the side of the uh right by
29:16
the side of the the pathway. So,
29:18
>> my god, I hate snakes.
29:20
>> And yeah, and there's all Well, there's
29:22
all kinds of horrible creepy crawlers up
29:23
there. Then I started doing a deep dive
29:24
on it. They have scorpions, black
29:26
widows,
29:27
all kinds of scary stuff up there, which
29:29
uh which I was completely unaware of.
29:32
Not any longer.
29:33
>> Nature, it's terrifying. [laughter]
29:36
>> Bears, they had a there's a bear. There
29:38
was a bear killed up there. Poor thing
29:40
got hit by a car.
29:41
>> Um
29:42
>> I saw a coyote right up on the uh hill
29:44
the other day, you know? I mean those
29:45
are getting common these days. It was
29:47
just like it looked like I mean honestly
29:49
I was like
29:50
>> the window was down. It was one of those
29:51
beautiful days. I was like yelling at
29:53
it, you know, like hey there buddy, how
29:55
you doing? And it it actually looked
29:56
like it would probably come up and like
29:58
you know ask for a snack. I mean, it
30:00
looked completely harmless and just like
30:02
a dog. I mean,
30:03
>> harmless.
30:04
>> I saw one trotten one trott in front of
30:06
our house the other day and and you
30:08
know, I don't know. It like a predator.
30:10
It looked dangerous.
30:11
>> They are predators.
30:13
>> Yeah. I don't want to mess with it, but
30:14
it was just trotten. It trotted right
30:16
down our street and up to Courtland and
30:17
then it ran across Courtland. I couldn't
30:19
believe it.
30:20
>> So, did you uh did you finish the story?
30:22
You use visual intelligence to identify
30:24
the snake. Uh how did that work?
30:26
>> Oh, it identified Well, it it said it
30:27
was a Pacific garder snake. Yeah. Um,
30:30
and it came up, you know, came up
30:31
immediately. I' I've been using a lot to
30:33
identify plants as well. I'm into
30:34
gardening now, so I've been uh, you
30:37
know, almost like I think almost in
30:40
every case it it ident Well, it says
30:42
identifies it identifies something. You
30:44
know, it doesn't come up. It comes up
30:46
with something.
30:47
>> Mhm.
30:48
>> I think it's correct. You know, I got to
30:51
admit I haven't 100% checked it because
30:54
uh my wife got this this beautiful tree
30:57
and then of course we didn't water it
30:59
and it it it it died. It became a twig
31:03
>> and so she chucked it in the corner of
31:04
the garden like in the back of the
31:05
garden because I don't know I don't know
31:07
why she did that but I checked it
31:09
yesterday and it it's back to life. It
31:11
ca it miraculously came back to life.
31:13
The thing is flowering now.
31:14
>> Um and it's supposed to be a jinder I
31:17
think it's a Jinda tree. This thing is
31:19
supposed to grow into like a 50 foot
31:21
tree with these beautiful amazing
31:26
uh flowers. Like the whole tree covers
31:28
itself in purple flowers.
31:30
>> Uh anyway, so I'm I'm excited about
31:31
that. I I I I put it in a pot yesterday
31:33
and watered the thing and so hope now
31:35
it's you know hopefully I'm going to
31:37
it'll survive and thrive. I don't know
31:39
about growing to 50 feet though. That's
31:40
that that's going to be a bit of a
31:41
problem.
31:42
>> I mean I remember when the feature came
31:43
out like a year and a half ago.
31:44
>> I'm not going to do that. I I I went to
31:47
a plant store and I was like just going
31:50
down the line using visual intelligence
31:52
on everything and just like comparing it
31:53
directly to the to the label on each
31:55
plant and it had like maybe 50% hit
31:58
rate.
31:59
>> Oh, really?
32:00
>> Yeah.
32:01
>> Oh, okay. Well,
32:02
>> maybe it's improved since then. You
32:04
know, Apple that's problem like Apple
32:07
doesn't market when they improve their
32:09
underlying models in the way that every
32:12
other AI company does. So, you know,
32:14
everybody, all of us in the press like
32:16
checked out all these Apple intelligence
32:17
features like a year and a half ago when
32:18
they were new, but Apple doesn't brag
32:21
about, oh yeah, this is the foundation
32:22
model 4.3 whatever now, you know. Well,
32:27
every time I try to identify a product,
32:28
I can't remember what I did. What was I
32:29
ran across something the other day and I
32:30
was like, what what what is this? It had
32:32
no identifying marks on it. So, I took a
32:33
picture uh it it did a Google visual
32:36
search and you know, lo and behold, it's
32:37
perfect. And
32:39
>> um you know every time every I you know
32:42
I've done it like maybe half a dozen
32:43
times recently and and you know from it
32:45
it's worked every time it it does seem
32:47
to be accurate at least for product
32:49
stuff
32:50
>> and I mean with the plants it always
32:52
should well every time I've used it it
32:54
shows a thing and a lot of times it'll
32:55
say like it maybe always says you know
32:58
this appears to be whatever but it uh it
33:01
also will show
33:03
uh sample photographs that you can look
33:05
at it and go oh yeah this is right or
33:07
this is song, you know, you kind of I
33:09
mean, now is it 100% accurate? I don't
33:12
know. I mean, I I used to use a a
33:14
dedicated I still do sometimes, do a
33:15
dedicated app for that, you know, when
33:16
out we're out walking around. I'm taking
33:18
pictures of things and I think the app
33:20
is called Seek or something. And uh it's
33:22
the same thing. Like it's it's usually
33:24
saying like, "Oh, I think it's this."
33:26
And it it pulls up information. So, but
33:28
I found the two to be sort of similar.
33:30
And uh you know, it's easier to just use
33:32
the the built-in iPhone one, right? cuz
33:34
you don't have to like, you know, pull
33:36
up a separate app. You can just try to
33:38
remember how to use the camera control.
33:41
[laughter]
33:42
>> Well, what you need to do, Louis, is you
33:44
need to make a shortcut to that app and
33:46
replace it with the uh camera button on
33:48
your lock screen. So that way you've got
33:50
quick access to both.
33:55
Jeez. [laughter]
33:56
>> There you go. That tells you everything
33:58
you need to know about that idea.
34:01
[laughter]
34:01
I think I think the uh you know the
34:04
overarching theme of all this stuff is
34:06
Apple's really hoping to knock this
34:09
stuff out of the park with Siri and
34:11
Apple intelligence and and you know
34:14
they've been promised as the smart
34:15
smarter series for two years now and now
34:17
and like I mean it's got to be good this
34:20
time around, right? I mean, if it if iOS
34:23
27 comes out and this stuff is, you
34:26
know,
34:28
you know, coming at a future date or
34:31
worse yet, comes out and is mediocre. I
34:34
mean, it's going to be bad.
34:36
>> This is why Tim Cook is stepping down.
34:39
>> He's terrified. [snorts]
34:40
>> Yeah.
34:41
>> A thought that I've been I've been
34:43
wondering is that, you know, Apple's
34:45
been burned so many times on this, they
34:48
they now have learned the lesson. Okay.
34:50
we only should announce these things
34:52
when they're ready to ship. And that
34:54
makes me wonder, are they going to talk
34:56
about Siri at WWDC? Because even even if
35:00
it's a part of iOS 27 and they know
35:01
that, are they going to show it off
35:03
knowing that it wouldn't be released for
35:05
another 3 months later, maybe it's part
35:08
of iOS 27, but they don't talk about it
35:10
or introduce it until the September
35:12
iPhone event because then they can say,
35:14
"Oh yes, here's the new Siri. You're
35:17
going to get it next week." Well, and
35:18
what makes you think it's not going to
35:20
be ready for dubdubdub DC?
35:21
>> I think it probably will be ready for
35:22
WWDC. I'm just wondering, you know,
35:26
Apple might be allergic to, oh, we don't
35:28
want to show it off because it's not
35:29
shipping for another 3 months and we
35:30
don't want to scare people again.
35:32
>> Well, we talked about this before,
35:33
didn't they? It looked like they were
35:34
going to do tiered rollouts for the
35:35
features, right? So, some of the stuff
35:37
is going to be ready for dubdubdc, but
35:38
then some of the more advanced stuff is
35:39
going to be ready for the, you know,
35:41
won't be ready till the fall. I agree. I
35:43
don't think they're going to not show
35:44
off something that's not going to ship,
35:46
you know, like
35:47
>> again, if it's if it's in the betas
35:48
right away, I guess they could, you
35:49
know, say, "Hey, you know, people are
35:51
using it." And that that would be
35:53
better, but
35:53
>> Right. And that's the way they do it,
35:55
isn't it? So,
35:55
>> Mhm. And I think it's the only story
35:57
they have to tell at this event. I mean,
36:01
they have to, right? I mean, they h they
36:03
had to two years ago because they were
36:04
behind on AI.
36:06
>> Last year, they had liquid glass. They
36:08
put a a you know, fancy new look on
36:10
everything, right? And now it's like
36:14
what is their story otherwise you know
36:16
>> I mean people forget that there are
36:17
other Apple intelligence features like
36:18
the writing tools and image playground.
36:20
I mean everybody tries to forget image
36:21
playground but unfortunately it's still
36:23
there. And like
36:24
>> have you seen an image playground image
36:26
in the wild?
36:27
>> No.
36:28
>> I don't think I have at all. [snorts]
36:30
>> Um I a few friends of mine in like a
36:33
group chat send Genoji
36:35
>> every day. Ed used to do a [laughter]
36:38
an AI image in in Slack, right, for the
36:41
the the handoff or the theme of the day
36:43
or whatever. And and every day it was a
36:46
Apple intelligence failure. Like nine
36:49
out of 10 times just horrible, you know,
36:52
camel with three legs or pineapple with
36:55
a face, which I guess that actually if
36:57
you ask for a pineapple with a face,
36:59
that's good. But uh yeah, I don't know,
37:02
man. I that's that's I oddly enough I
37:04
had even actually forgotten about image
37:06
playground. It it is so comically bad. I
37:09
I never use it for anything unless
37:13
unless you know I mean the only reason I
37:15
ever did use it was just to to like
37:17
basically do something stupid to to show
37:20
how bad it was. It I never used it to
37:22
actually create something that I wanted
37:24
to display to the world in a in a you
37:28
know positive way.
37:30
>> [laughter]
37:30
>> It it's it's pathetic. I mean, it's just
37:33
terrible. You compare it to everything
37:34
else out there and it's like completely
37:37
laughable. So, that said, I haven't used
37:40
it in uh I I bet I haven't fired that
37:42
thing up in six months. Maybe it's great
37:43
now. Maybe that's what I'll have to do.
37:45
I have to go check it out this
37:46
afternoon. Maybe I could do some kind of
37:48
fantastic artwork for the uh earnings
37:51
call.
37:51
>> That is cool. Yeah.
37:52
>> Yeah, it'll be great. Tim got a pile of
37:55
money.
37:57
[laughter]
37:58
[snorts]
37:59
>> Oh boy.
38:01
>> All right, let's move on. We got a
38:03
question from uh via text from um well
38:07
from someone. Did Did they give a name?
38:09
Uh
38:09
>> they did not.
38:10
>> Okay. Well, uh the question is, "I'm
38:12
waffling between buying a MacBook Neo
38:14
512 GB and an M5 MacBook Air. I only
38:19
surf the web journal and budget with
38:21
Apple numbers and answer emails. So, the
38:22
Neo would be more than enough for that.
38:24
What I'm concerned about is longevity. I
38:26
want to keep them on my computer for the
38:27
next 5 to seven years. Would you think
38:29
the Neo can last that long with my use
38:31
case, or should I just bite the bullet
38:33
and get the air? All right, I know the
38:34
answer to this, but I'm not going to
38:36
>> Oh, go for your answer first.
38:38
>> You know, doesn't Apple commit itself to
38:39
to uh supporting all its hardware for at
38:42
least six years in software?
38:45
I think they say like three years of
38:47
major software updates and another two
38:50
years or so of um of like security
38:53
updates. But I mean you can just look at
38:55
the pattern like Apple's own silicon
38:58
just on the iPhones because you know
38:59
those are those are older there's more
39:01
older ones. Um they've been extending
39:03
the life you know every couple of years
39:06
like on my first iPhone my iPhone 4 it
39:08
only ran up to iOS 7 and it only barely
39:12
worked on iOS 7 honestly. So that was
39:14
only like three years of software
39:15
updates. But now they say that um with
39:18
the OS 27 updates, the cutoff is going
39:22
to be the iPhone 12. I think I I read
39:25
that as a rumor which came out in 2020.
39:27
So that would be what 7 8 years of of of
39:31
useful lifespan, you know, and that's on
39:33
a phone and that's 7 years ago. Now the
39:36
the MacBook Neo is even newer, so we can
39:39
reasonably expect it'll probably get
39:41
updates 10 years in the future. Well,
39:43
I'll bet that they base these decisions
39:45
on the number of active devices still in
39:48
use.
39:49
>> I bet that's a huge consideration. Yeah.
39:51
>> And I would bet that the Neo is going to
39:54
far out sell the mime 5 MacBook Air
39:59
eventually.
40:00
>> Yeah.
40:00
>> Um so going to I mean but then again,
40:03
you know, the MacBook Air
40:05
with an M5 chip is more powerful than
40:07
the Neo. But I I think that the Neo, you
40:09
know, being of the same like hardware
40:13
generation as the M5 chip means that
40:15
they'll probably be de deprecated around
40:17
the same time because they're I think
40:19
the M5 chip and the A18 Pro that's in
40:23
the MacBook Neo use the exact same
40:26
hardware process. So they're, you know,
40:28
although the M5 chip is bigger and more
40:30
powerful, you know, they have they have
40:31
similar single core speeds and they
40:34
they'll probably be supported for about
40:35
the same amount of time, you know. So,
40:37
all of that is to say, the MacBook Neo
40:38
will almost certainly be more than
40:40
enough for 5 to seven years. However, if
40:42
I were to make a case for the MacBook
40:44
Air, I would say the MacBook Air is
40:46
better in every way. And if you already
40:49
have the money to buy a MacBook Air by
40:51
the very fact that you're waffling
40:53
between the two, if you can afford a
40:54
MacBook Air, I would get that instead
40:56
because it's better and it'll, you know,
40:58
however good the MacBook Neo will last 5
41:00
to seven years from now, the MacBook Air
41:02
will be faster.
41:03
>> Yeah, that's a good point. But uh I mean
41:06
how do you upgrade your your MacBook? I
41:08
guess how how long have you had your
41:09
MacBook, Lewis, now that the the M1
41:11
>> M1 M1 and uh you know it's starting to
41:14
show its uh I I think I think it's
41:16
starting to show its age. I mean it
41:18
seems like I'm having more problems with
41:20
it. More things are acting a little
41:22
goofy. Uh
41:24
I
41:25
>> finally finally it has been a champ up
41:27
until about this this past year or so.
41:29
Yeah.
41:29
>> Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's when we
41:30
started doing the podcasting stuff, you
41:32
know, like more I think it's puts more
41:34
demand on it than than it maybe can
41:36
handle. I mean, it works okay. Uh, if I
41:41
was in that situation about the MacBook
41:44
Neo or the MacBook Air, I would go with
41:46
MacBook Air for one reason only. You can
41:48
get more RAM. I mean, I I think that of
41:51
all the things with the MacBook Neo, I
41:53
think that only being able to get 8
41:55
gigabytes of RAM is is probably the one
41:58
thing that's going to make it uh less
42:00
useful 5 years from now cuz I mean, you
42:03
know, RAM is is good to have and you
42:06
can't have too much and software just
42:09
keeps getting heavier. So, I mean,
42:12
that's what I would do. I mean, was that
42:14
at a couple hundred bucks or something?
42:15
If you don't install software and you're
42:17
just on the web, web pages keep getting
42:18
heavier.
42:19
>> Yeah. Everything. Everything. So, to me,
42:22
that's the biggest uh limitation of the
42:25
Neo as far as I mean, I've never used
42:27
one, but just uh looking at the specs
42:30
and comparing it and thinking about it
42:32
for having it for I seven years, that's
42:34
a long time to have a a computer and 8
42:37
gigabytes of RAM is it's it's kind of on
42:40
the skimpy side these days.
42:41
>> Very very good point. But then again,
42:43
you know, uh the question says that it
42:44
sounds like very very light use. I mean,
42:46
um maybe it doesn't need that kind of
42:48
RAM. But if you want to open 300 tabs in
42:51
Chrome like I do, then you're definitely
42:54
going to need RAM. But good point. Yeah,
42:57
very very good point. I would say the
42:58
RAM is the determining factor. If you
43:00
need more RAM, go for the Air. If you
43:01
don't, get the Neo.
43:02
>> I mean, it's it's like everything else
43:04
if you can afford it.
43:05
>> What about the colors? Yeah. Okay.
43:08
>> Nice looking.
43:09
If you're making buying decisions on the
43:11
computer based on the color, I mean,
43:14
>> well, people do. [laughter]
43:15
>> I know. Sure. I mean, that that just
43:17
that means you literally are only going
43:19
to use it for email. And that's fine.
43:20
That's totally fine. I'm sure it's a I'm
43:22
sure they're great computers. I mean, I
43:25
don't think I would I don't know. I
43:27
don't I like I thought maybe like my
43:31
wife should get one. You know, she has
43:32
some really old PC laptop. I'm like, why
43:35
why would you not? you she has iPads,
43:37
multiple iPads she uses for everything
43:39
everything, you know, for sheet music
43:41
all the time. She's uh doing she doing
43:44
her taxes on a MacBook. Um all this
43:47
stuff, you know, and and then but she
43:49
just I don't know, for some reason she's
43:50
not interested in learning a new uh PC
43:54
operating systems or a new, you know,
43:56
learning the Mac operating system. So,
43:58
>> well, you just saved yourself 600 bucks,
43:59
so I wouldn't complain about that.
44:00
[laughter]
44:02
>> I I I actually I'd love to have one
44:04
around. I I'm fascinated by the
44:05
computer. They they look pretty awesome.
44:07
>> The the remarkable thing is that it
44:09
feels like a MacBook Air and costs half
44:11
as much. Get to
44:12
>> like [laughter]
44:14
>> the the throughput is not as good,
44:16
right? I mean, the the USBC ports are
44:18
slower and
44:20
>> Yeah.
44:20
>> Yeah. But nothing I don't know. Is there
44:22
really meaningfully
44:24
um
44:24
>> Yeah. I mean, it's it's just like
44:27
I are you really just going to, you
44:30
know, type and look at the internet? If
44:32
that's all you're if that's all you're
44:34
going to do, then I'm sure it's going to
44:35
be fine for a long time.
44:39
>> All right, let's talk about exercise
44:40
equipment. This is something I haven't
44:41
done for for a while. Like I was saying
44:44
earlier, I went I was got ready for a
44:45
bike ride yesterday and then I decided I
44:47
actually couldn't be bothered in the end
44:48
and [laughter]
44:49
just spent the whole evening in my bike
44:52
shorts. Um, but Griffin's not like that.
44:56
Um,
44:57
>> no, I'm kind of like that. That didn't
44:59
stop people from uh sending me some
45:01
exercise equipment [clears throat] to
45:02
review, though. I guess I I don't know
45:05
what part of my body of work made me
45:07
think I would be a good person to review
45:09
exercise equipment, but I've been sent a
45:12
number of things. And so, this is going
45:14
to be a three-part series. Uh, starting
45:17
with this first item.
45:18
>> Please tell me it's not a thigh master.
45:21
[laughter]
45:22
I actually bought one of those at a
45:24
thrift store.
45:25
>> Oh, yeah.
45:26
>> Sure you did. [laughter]
45:28
>> It's in the basement, right?
45:29
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, not any longer cuz
45:31
we we finally cleaned it up, but it did
45:33
sit in the basement for about 10 years.
45:34
I bought one of those what one of those
45:36
shake Do you remember those the shake
45:37
things?
45:37
>> Shake weights. [laughter]
45:41
>> That was a complete waste of money. I
45:43
totally fell for the marketing of that
45:44
one. I thought it [laughter] was going
45:46
to be like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but it
45:47
was it was it was useless.
45:50
>> Oh, wow. Those look good.
45:52
>> Yeah, these are great.
45:53
>> Uh, got to look up the name of this
45:55
thing. This is the Feyerdone DB1 quick
46:00
adjustable dumbbell set. Um, they're
46:03
sold in a pair. Uh, I can only fit one
46:06
of the pair on my desk here, but there's
46:08
two of them. So, I guess we could either
46:11
do this with a friend or uh, you know,
46:13
do do one of each arm. Um,
46:17
>> what are you talking about? You usually
46:20
>> one for each arm.
46:22
>> Oh yeah. Yeah, you can do that. Um show
46:25
shows how much I know about working out.
46:27
Again, I'm not an [laughter] expert.
46:28
>> Share with a friend.
46:31
>> Oh my god. Sorry. I don't mean to be so
46:33
rude, but [laughter]
46:34
>> I've never more ridiculous in my life.
46:39
>> Have you never used a dumbbell before,
46:40
Griffin?
46:41
>> Uh I I've used this a little bit.
46:44
[laughter]
46:46
>> How the hell did they send it to you?
46:48
the least qualified person in the entire
46:50
world to [laughter] be
46:51
>> You know what? It's the pictures. He
46:52
takes the good pictures.
46:54
>> Mhm.
46:55
>> They're going to use him as marketing
46:56
shots. It's cheaper than hiring a
46:58
photographer.
46:59
>> Mhm. So, this is a this is an adjustable
47:02
set. So, you've got like these dials on
47:05
each end uh of the set and you can, you
47:09
know, you can rotate them and set how
47:11
much uh how much weight you want to lift
47:13
today. Spin the dials to what you want.
47:15
And I have them I have it set to 15
47:17
right now. And then when you lift it
47:19
out, it uh you know mechanically sets
47:23
that amount of weight on the handle and
47:26
you can just uh you know take it out and
47:28
lift you know 15 pounds or whatever
47:30
you're whatever you're feeling today. Is
47:32
that a standard feature? Is that not
47:34
impressive at all? I don't know. This is
47:36
the only standard.
47:38
>> What's the what's what's the um uh
47:41
what's the lightest weight and what's
47:42
the heaviest weight? That's the
47:43
important part. It goes uh in 2 and 12
47:47
pound increments between 5 to 25 lb, you
47:51
know, I think. And then above 25 pounds,
47:53
it goes in five pound increments. So you
47:55
can go from 25
47:57
all the way up to like 52 pounds.
48:01
>> That's not bad. That's pretty good. 50
48:02
52 and a half pounds is pretty good.
48:04
Those are actually great. I mean, if you
48:05
if you don't have any weightlifting
48:07
equipment, um, a set of adjustable
48:09
dumbbells is the way to go because you
48:12
can do a whole bunch of you can do like
48:13
a lot of weightlifting exercises just
48:15
with that set.
48:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. And these aren't uh round,
48:20
you know, they're they're they're
48:21
hexagonal, which um hang on, let me set
48:25
it to a lighter weight.
48:26
>> Stop them rolling around everywhere.
48:28
>> Uh the the dials on the side feel really
48:30
nice. Like they've got a really nice
48:32
click to them. They make a solid solid
48:34
mechanical click. You know, it it
48:37
instills confidence. The the weights
48:39
themselves, I think, are um solid steel.
48:43
Um
48:45
they're hexagonal in shape. They're not
48:48
they're not round. And they say that
48:49
that lets you do use it for like two
48:51
purposes. Like you can lift it with the
48:53
handle on the edge or you can lift it
48:55
kind of like a uh like a kettle bell by
48:58
by by by grabbing it around the edge.
49:01
Um,
49:04
again, I don't know if that's a standard
49:05
feature. I I wasn't particularly
49:08
impressed with that uh marketing line.
49:10
They've got the the handle is like
49:11
non-slip. It's nice and rubber and
49:14
grippy. It's easy to hold. You know,
49:15
it's just the right width and thickness.
49:17
I think uh for someone with not very big
49:20
hands like me,
49:21
>> it looks it looks like a solid set. I
49:23
mean, the Bow Flex ones are the kind of
49:25
the gold standard, but I think they're
49:26
kind of expensive. I mean, they're like
49:28
350 bucks or something. How much is that
49:31
one
49:31
>> for? A set of these is also 350 bucks
49:34
for two of them. Uh just the one I think
49:38
they sell on Amazon for about 200 bucks,
49:41
but um 300 351
49:44
for for the pair, you know. I've I've
49:47
only got half of the pair here right
49:49
now, but
49:50
>> Okay. So, they're just they're a little
49:51
bit cheaper than the Bowlex ones, which
49:53
go for $3.99 to $6.99 depending on uh
49:56
which set you get. Um, but yeah, that
49:59
that they're certainly not cheap. And of
50:00
course, these the prices went up crazy
50:02
like during the pandemic.
50:04
>> Um, and and haven't come down again, but
50:06
they they look like a solid, you know,
50:08
uh, alternative to the Bow Flex and and
50:10
probably $50 cheaper. Maybe you can get
50:12
them cheaper on sale.
50:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not a fan of
50:16
like the the overall design aesthetic.
50:18
Like it's got like the big chunky like
50:20
macho letters that have the fair done
50:22
and Yeah.
50:24
kind of not my style in my opinion, but
50:26
uh you know that that that's kind of
50:29
standard across all exercise equipment.
50:30
Like try finding anything that isn't
50:33
>> heinously ugly. Uh and you'll you'll
50:37
come up [laughter] short.
50:39
>> I I you know, start doing some exercise.
50:42
I really liked it. I used to love doing
50:43
the dumbbells. Of course, I saying that
50:44
I haven't done it for for a little while
50:46
now, but um when I used to go to the gym
50:49
on a regular basis, I really really
50:51
liked um working out with dumbbells
50:54
that, you know, you can you can uh do
50:55
all your upper body exercises,
50:58
uh everything from curls to, you know,
51:00
shoulder uh exercises, bench presses, um
51:04
rows. It's good for rowing. Um and 50
51:07
pounds is not bad. I mean, I think that
51:09
was probably about the that was about
51:11
the maximum, I think, for weight that I
51:13
needed um when I was using dumbbells
51:17
uh for for the rowing for the rows,
51:20
which exercise I think quads here. Um
51:23
but I used to love doing a a workout.
51:26
Makes you feel great, especially the
51:27
next day. Uh you get this lovely sort of
51:31
glow in your tired out muscles. Um it
51:36
felt wonderful.
51:38
What am I talking? I I got to go do some
51:40
right now.
51:41
>> Do Do you have uh adjustable weight
51:43
ones?
51:44
>> Yeah, I've got the I've got the Bowlex
51:46
ones. They sent me a set years ago.
51:48
>> Um also covered in about 4 in of dust,
51:51
unfortunately.
51:53
>> Uh my wife has been trying to get me to
51:54
get rid of them. I'm like, "No, no, no.
51:55
I'm going to get rid so much."
51:58
>> I I have a Yeah, I I have a set of power
52:02
block ones, which [snorts] are I don't
52:05
know. I can't remember why how I
52:06
acquired these, but uh
52:07
>> I think you got them from me. They're
52:09
the square ones, right?
52:10
>> Yeah. No, I think I I I think I bought
52:13
these back when we worked at Wired and
52:16
there was like some kind of like, you
52:18
know, health benefit thing. But, uh
52:21
>> Oh, right. I got a Yeah, they gave you
52:24
350 bucks a year or something, right? To
52:26
buy some exercise equipment.
52:27
>> I don't particularly like using the uh
52:30
using the adjustable ones. I I And I've
52:32
never owned a set of regular ones, you
52:34
know? I keep thinking about buying one
52:36
cuz I every I find the whole like
52:37
adjustable thing fiddly and I was
52:39
wondering about those things like how
52:40
how hard is it to to get it to the right
52:43
thing. I mean at least it looks like
52:45
it's very easy to see how many pounds it
52:48
is. Like on the ones that I have, you
52:49
kind of have to move uh like there's a
52:52
thing that slides out from between the
52:53
level and you have to push it down to a
52:55
lower level and it's it's a little bit
52:57
hard to see where it is and it's a
52:58
little bit hard to tell how much it
52:59
weighs. Everything's kind of like
53:01
difficult uh as far as that goes. And
53:04
then it's I don't know. I also don't
53:05
like the way they feel in my hands. They
53:07
you know they kind of slide around a
53:08
little. You know, they don't feel like
53:10
solid piece of metal, which I I really
53:13
like that when I've used a regular
53:15
dumbbell. I like the like like it
53:17
doesn't move. It doesn't wiggle. It's
53:19
kind of like [snorts] it's like on
53:21
darts. I mean, there's some darts that
53:22
they make that have like spinning
53:25
spinning flights, right? And and you
53:27
hold them and they it they feel wiggly
53:29
in your hand. It doesn't feel uh doesn't
53:32
feel right. Yeah, that doesn't sound
53:34
right. The Bow Flex ones are definitely
53:35
solid. They don't move around at all.
53:37
>> I feel a little bit of wiggling on this,
53:38
but but not a whole lot. And it's just
53:40
when I go fast, like down to up really
53:43
quickly, I can feel like a moment
53:44
halfway where they sort of like shift a
53:47
little bit, but it's it's not that bad.
53:48
And again, these ones are super easy to
53:50
adjust the the dial of it. There's no
53:53
like mechanical lockout. You just like
53:54
spin it on each side and make sure they
53:56
line up and it's good. And how about
53:58
sliding the the you know when you pull
54:00
one out and you you slide it back in.
54:01
How easy it is it to get it back in you
54:04
know it kind of looked like the the
54:06
other pieces of metal were like moving a
54:08
little. Okay.
54:10
>> Yeah. It just it just slots in perfectly
54:11
naturally.
54:16
>> Oddly enough I just picked up the
54:18
dumbbells uh just earlier this week for
54:19
the first time in ages. It's like like
54:22
you're saying Leander. I mean it does
54:24
>> it does feel good. And the next day I
54:25
was a little bit sore. I didn't I I
54:27
barely did anything. I mean, I did a
54:29
couple of exercises, but uh I got to
54:32
start doing it, you know, and and that's
54:33
the one thing that everybody keeps
54:34
coming back to with everything I read
54:36
about health is like you've got to do
54:38
weightlifting if you want to lose weight
54:40
and be in shape and and stay, you know,
54:43
active as you get older.
54:45
>> When you lose muscle, you lose how much
54:47
muscle 10% a year every year after
54:50
whatever it is.
54:50
>> It's terrifying. I hope I can build some
54:52
back. [snorts]
54:54
>> Yeah. Right. Don't get a don't get a lot
54:56
of muscle building with, you know, mouse
54:57
curls, [laughter]
55:00
>> right? Yeah. Exactly. And yesterday I
55:02
spent I spent I think 16 hours sat in my
55:06
in my chair, which was not good. And I
55:08
and I got up and I I I had to walk to
55:11
the front door and I was hobbling.
55:13
Uh and and I I said to my son like, "How
55:17
what how did I get so sensor doing
55:19
absolutely nothing all day? Nothing."
55:22
And then I was too late to go for my
55:24
bike ride which I which is you know
55:26
that's bad because I I thoroughly enjoy
55:28
biting my bike and uh you know every
55:31
time I get on it I I feel great like
55:33
almost instantly. Instantly. Um yeah
55:36
that was bad. Any I'm I'm all inspired
55:38
now. Let's let's let's wrap this up so
55:40
we can go exercise.
55:42
>> Yeah. Screw the newsletter.
55:43
>> Well
55:44
>> weightlifting time. Yeah.
55:46
>> Yeah. This show doesn't need edited.
55:48
I'll just post this. Yeah.
55:50
>> Okay. Perfect. All right, let's wrap it
55:52
up there. Thanks so much uh everybody
55:56
for listening. Um please give us a
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56:10
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56:22
time. Have a great weekend, everybody.
56:24
>> Goodbye.
56:26
See you.