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This week: Xcode’s AI agents can build an app from scratch in a day, major new details on the folding iPhone — and a potential second folding iPhone, whether Apple plans obsolescence, and a trick that’ll wrangle notifications on your iPhone.
Produced by Extra Ordinary for Cult of Mac
Music composed by Will Davenport, arranged by D. Griffin Jones
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0:00
Coming up, Xcodes AI agents can build an app from scratch in a day. Major new
0:06
details on the folding iPhone and the other folding iPhone. Does Apple plan obsolescence and a trick that will
0:12
wrangle notifications on your iPhone? Welcome to the cult of Mac podcast. I'm
0:18
your host Le Kaney. Joining me today, D. Griffin Jones, coming in from Ohio. Hey, Griffin. Good evening. Today's episode of the
0:24
podcast almost didn't happen because I've spent the last two days basically setting up my Mac from scratch. So,
0:30
unfortunately, I fixed it and now you have to endure this. Unfortunately,
0:35
right, yeah, I know I'm regretting it. Uh, Louis, how you doing?
0:43
Fantastic. My Mac seems to be working okay. Just occasional problems like
0:49
can't update pages for some reason. And it keeps nagging me to do it. But what are you going to do? Update pages. I guess
0:54
I got those mags, too. They won't work. I I go to the app store. There's no
0:59
button to install. It just says the only button is there is cancel.
1:05
Yeah. Isn't that awesome? I'm sure it's a user error of some sort. Couldn't I'm sure it's an app store error because
1:10
it was built on the infrastructure of the iTunes music store from 2003. And
1:15
now that they're rolling out the Apple Creator Studio version, they have to have two different listings of pages on the App Store. And if you have the old
1:22
one, you have to update it. You have to update to basically the same one that isn't the Creator Studio. It's a mess. I wouldn't blame myself. It's It's
1:28
confusing. I just hit cancel. I'll do it later when uh Anyway, let's look at Let's thank our
1:34
sponsor. So, thanks again to Cult of Mac for sponsoring the Cultter Show. Wow. This is a really incredible gift.
1:41
I know it is, isn't it? That's a huge huge win for us. I want to talk about our newsletter, our daily newsletter and
1:47
our weekend newsletter, the the weekender. Uh you can get our newsletter at newsletters.cultton.com.
1:52
And you know, this is a great newsletter. I got to say it myself. Um I don't want to toot my own horn, but people love it. It's got a 75% open
1:59
rate, which is insane for a excuse me, for a daily newsletter. Oh,
2:05
people open the weekend or two a lot. Uh that's, you know, it's a great digest of everything we publish during the week. It's full of like, you know, tips,
2:12
how-tos, reviews, all the news stories that are important. It's a great way to catch up. Really good weekend read. Um,
2:18
I really encourage you to to uh to to sign up for the Cult of Mic newsletters. Um, we do daily polls. People love the
2:24
polls. It's a super lot of fun. Uh, get a lot of comments. It's uh it's a great way to get Cultmack content. So, it's
2:31
newsletters.cult.com. And thanks again for Cultmite for sponsoring the Cultmic Show. That's our first story. This is a
2:36
funny one. Open Claw comes to Xcode. There's there's a big exciting change
2:41
coming to Apple's X code programming environment and Louis is going to tell us all about it. Uh just to clarify it's uh claude not
2:49
open claw. Don't be a pedant. Don't be it's a joke. Say the it's a joke.
2:55
Okay. Yeah. So uh an update to Xcode enables
3:01
AI agents to operate with greater autonomy throughout the entire app development cycle. Xcode of course is
3:06
Apple's comprehensive free integrated development environment for programming apps on all of its platforms. And now
3:14
instead of simply suggesting code completions like uh you know pathetic sort of Apple intelligence stuff I'm
3:20
guessing uh these agents can break down complex tasks make artificial
3:25
architectural decisions and use Xcode's built-in tools independently. Apple just
3:31
I I think they released this in beta or something this week. Right. in release candidate in Xcode.
3:36
Oh, release candidate. Correct. Yeah. Uh supposedly makes Xcode capable of building apps by itself. Completely by
3:44
itself, which isn't scary at all. Uh should make these easier for beginning coders though. Uh, in fact, just when I
3:51
heard this, I was like, "Oh, this is exactly what Graham, our colleague Graham Bower, used for uh updating his
3:59
his weightlifting set app reps and sets, which I've still yet to uh fully take
4:04
advantage of as I sit here with my gangly arms." And anyway, uh, but people
4:10
on the, uh, internet, developers like, uh, Steven Trotton, isn't it? He was
4:15
talking about how great it is. says, "Excode just builds entire apps without you." Now, you could write a full
4:21
shippable app every evening with Xcode's agentic coding features. Two apps a day even, he wrote on Masttoon, which maybe
4:28
you've heard of. Mastadon. Wait, that was a horse, not a I don't know what a ma does. Anybody know what a mastadon
4:34
sounds like? That wasn't a mastadon. That's a mustang, not a That's a miss.
4:41
So, uh, he he he had a long thread on Maston talking about this. He he said, "I had Xcode's new agent feature throw
4:47
together a little UI kit timeline app without me writing anything myself, all using codecs."
4:54
Apparently, I mean, the the name dropped ones are Claude agent and open AI codecs, a couple of co coding tools, but
5:02
it it looks like you can use basically anyone, right? I mean, they have some kind of API, so you could pull in
5:08
whatever kind of coding AI you want into Xcode and uh, you know, streamline
5:14
stuff. You can have it do some of the drudge work of of of this stuff and check things out. Um,
5:20
it supports uh MCP which is basically the open- source equivalent to what
5:26
Apple's trying to do with like app intents to part of the new Siri where it's an open protocol that um a lot of
5:33
other companies are implementing that basically lets you know AI things control parts of computers. And so Xcode
5:40
incorporates MCP support so you can just plug in your API tokens and use a different model if you want to use that
5:46
one instead. Yeah. Uh yeah, I know that Louis didn't understand a
5:51
word of that. Like could you could you hear my eyes glazing over?
5:58
It sounds very cool, doesn't it? It sounds super super cool. Um of course I think the part that everyone glosses
6:04
over is you've kind of got to know what you're doing in the first place. I think like you know when Graeme was talking about his vibe coding experience, what
6:11
came through clearly really was, you know, he knew a lot about what he wanted. um what the different platforms
6:19
and APIs were capable of. Um so when he was vibe coding, he's coming from a lot of knowledge, you know, like I think if
6:26
you read the press release, you kind of come across the idea, oh, you know, this is like I can just I can just like vibe
6:32
code and um my way into into making a a a full app. Uh and I don't
6:39
think that's probably going to be true at all. uh you know, you've still got to bring a lot of knowledge about what um
6:46
the different APIs and and uh platforms can do for you and what your app's going to look like, what you want it to do.
6:52
You know, it's like it's not going to take all the work out of it. This is much deeper integration than they than they had before where it's not
6:59
just like editing a single document. it's it's building and it can analyze your entire project at once and it can
7:04
even double check the work that it's done by like taking a you know capturing the screen of the uh preview that Xcode
7:12
has built in or the simulator and verifying that it's actually done what it's trying to do. So it can double
7:18
check itself as well. It can clear warnings for you. This is a this is a great thing for them to do at this time,
7:24
you know, before WWDC in a few months, you know, to make developers happy before their big developer event.
7:30
Well, my my joke about OpenClaw, you know, obviously like uh for people who may not uh know what I'm talking about,
7:35
OpenClaw is the rename of Clawbot. It's an agent AI that a lot of people are installing on Mac Minis and they're
7:42
giving it access to entire digital life and it's supposed to be like they call it AI with hands. So it can actually
7:48
really do stuff um go out and order things for you or or you know all all kinds of check you know respond to
7:54
thousands of emails make inbox go to zero um and uh it's supposed to it's a
7:59
huge security nightmare. people are setting it up and giving it access to their full digital life and these security researchers have found that um
8:06
they're easily taken over even with prompt attacks. You know, it's it's you you communicated with it via messaging
8:11
apps like WhatsApp or or messenger uh messages and um you know, people have
8:17
been uh able to send malicious instructions to these these these open claws installations. Anyway, that was a
8:23
joke about open claw coming to to Xcode. Funnily enough, Federico Vatici, who wrote, you know, one of the big articles
8:30
about, you know, how to set it, get started setting it up on a Mac, um, after he published that article and it
8:36
started getting a lot of attention, he had to disable Open Claw reading his email because he was worried about, you
8:42
know, he has a public email address. People could send him an email as prompt injection into his computer, right? So
8:48
yeah, it's a bit of a security nightmare in in that regard when that if you want it to
8:53
be useful at all, it needs to be, you know, plugging into your actual computer. But if it's plugged into your computer everywhere, then you're opening
8:59
yourself to like a massive attack vector, right? Nothing else is thought like that. It's super super, you know,
9:05
security risk, massive massive risk. But one of the interesting things about openclaw they were talking about was
9:10
like you can you can tell it to do new things you know like and it'll go out and it'll figure out how to install the
9:17
various packages and the various software it needs in order to achieve that and what that gives you is an
9:23
insight into our future computers. So you know what's you know a future iPhone
9:31
might look like is something like an open core implementation where it's a super smart assistant and what it means
9:36
is the death of apps. I mean you'll no longer need an app to go do something. You'll just tell your agent to go figure
9:43
it out and it'll add those it'll it'll figure out how to do something on your behalf and go do it. So some people are
9:52
arguing uh that this is the the beginning of the end of apps that you
9:58
know standalone software will no longer be needed. Now I I I don't believe that
10:03
for a second but it's funny you said it pretty convincingly.
10:08
I thought you were already carving up the headstone for apps. Well, yeah. I I you know, I think there's an argument to
10:13
be made for a lot of things that is going to be true, but I think for some things it won't be like you'll want to
10:19
have control over you'll want to go see for yourself or do for yourself certain things. Maybe photo editing. I don't
10:26
know if that's a good example, you know, like the kind some some tasks you'll want to keep hands on. There are a lot
10:32
of tasks that there are a lot of apps that will I think disappear or at least tasks that apps I can help you out here. I don't think
10:39
this will be the end of apps because photo editing is a good example. Photoshop is a hum is an incredibly
10:46
massive incredibly complicated app that has like, you know, 30year-old legacy.
10:51
AI can't replace that. And if you if it tried to generate Photoshop every time you wanted to edit a picture, it would
10:57
be a massive energy waste. It would be incredibly slow. It's a waste of time. Like there is still a room for an app
11:03
like Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, things like those to exist, right? you're doing something even in a
11:08
super powerful post AAAI future, but and and also like online services like Instagram, Facebook, you know, those
11:14
require server infrastructure software like iMessage, you know, basic platform level stuff, but I think
11:20
I don't know, you know, I a messaging app could definitely disappear because you could say text my mom this, text my
11:25
brother that. I I don't want to go open up the app and type it out. If if I could have an agent that would do that reliably for me, there's no way I am
11:33
going to go to an app to do it any longer. That task has completely disappeared. And I think it's true for shopping too, right? Or or booking
11:39
trips. If you have an agent that you can trust, you can say, "Okay, go buy me some toilet paper and get it the
11:44
cheapest possible price. Why and it could do that reliably and the toilet paper shows up, you know, the
11:49
next day from Amazon in a box." Why would you go open Amazon ever again? I would if it can do it reliably is a very if is
11:57
doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence, right? I I I agree. But I agree. But if it
12:02
and also like Yeah. agentic things won't make you know the the existence of apps
12:08
obsolete because there still needs to be the the iMessage and service in place for the agent to be able to do those
12:13
things right some apps some apps but from the consumer point of view you know from my point of view as a as a consumer as a
12:19
user some apps are definitely going to disappear I don't know a good example is encoding
12:24
chapters into an MP3 file for a podcast that that app exists but if you don't
12:29
want to use those in a post you know imaginary 10-year feature from now where AI can generate apps like you know
12:35
willy-nilly like that you know a person who doesn't have you know forecast which
12:41
is an app that does that already can just type it into a you know an agent and have it generate one that'll do it for them you know tiny little utilities
12:48
technical problems like that I think those are those are ripe to be reinvented by these things well cod
12:54
coding is a good example though like the uh earlier in the week um one of the top programmers at at Facebook I can't
13:01
remember the guy's name he was uh and has since moved on somewhere else. I can't remember the guy's name.
13:07
This tweet anyway, someone someone was commenting on a tweet that he made where he said that 100% of his coding is now
13:14
handled by Claude or some AI agent, right? 100% works at Facebook that lines up
13:20
and and he said, Yeah. Yeah. Right. Good point. But he said, you know, he was he had very very mixed feelings about it
13:26
because on the one hand, this is he said this is an astonishing change. This is
13:31
this is like you know programming has never been like this before. It's now completely different. Programming has
13:37
completely changed. There is no point for anybody who's learning who's going to with computer who's learning computer
13:45
science to learn programming any longer. This is you know I'm sure there you could argue that
13:50
that's not true. But anyway, he's saying 100% I actually wrote up a few notes about this because um I also have a computer
13:55
science degree and I have some thoughts now. I I've I've been painted on this
14:00
podcast as like the anti- AI person because I don't like AI generated images. I don't like AI generated
14:06
videos. Accurately, I think you mean I I think my my point of view has been
14:13
taken to a bit of a more extreme than what it actually is because I actually have less of a problem with this than
14:20
other AI services because the code itself is not the product that you're
14:26
making here. you know, the the the code isn't the poet, not the art. It's the
14:32
code. The code is what it generates to make the actual product, which is the software and the app. Um, now AI is
14:40
always going to generate the most bland, predictable, statistically average outcome. And you know, that's just
14:47
fundamental to how it works. That's what it does. Although I have a computer science degree, you know, these coding
14:52
tools have a better understanding of Swift and Python syntax than uh what I
14:58
can write. I I understand the broad concepts, but I'm not as familiar with like the actual those languages to
15:04
produce the code as accurately as these things can, you know. So, I I actually can see foresee myself using a tool like
15:11
this to help finish the, you know, two dinky apps that I've been working on as
15:16
a hobby on and off for like the last 3 years because I've I've reached my skill level and it's still not to the level
15:22
that I would want to ship them because, and this is critical, these are two dinky little hobby projects that run
15:28
locally, don't deal with any essential user data or information, and can't cause harm to
15:34
anybody if if something goes or if if the AI generates code that has like a horrible race condition or you know
15:42
deletes data oh no the it's lost basically nothing because the app again the apps that I'm working on are very
15:48
small scale for better and worse these are going to significantly increase the output of the just global output of
15:55
software in the world right and that's not something that can be undone I don't think that the that's
16:01
going to be necessarily beneficial to the world because there's already way too much mediocre software that manages
16:08
and runs our entire lives. Like it's it's so much harder doing things like,
16:13
you know, just getting a parking spot. Now you have to download an app. Now you have to do this. Now you have to you need to sign up for an online service, a
16:19
thing that breaks, a thing that doesn't account for any edge cases. And now we're going to be trusting these AI
16:24
services to create them for us. And by by companies who are only trying to, you
16:30
know, minimize their operational costs to the highest degree, we are opening ourselves up to a world where we are putting way more trust in these things
16:37
to run so many little parts of our lives in every meaningful way. And I think we need to prepare for that.
16:43
It's taking a lot of the grunt work out of coding. And I think it's there's a jobs report today, wasn't there, that
16:48
just came out. There's been like this is the there have been more layoffs in the month of was it for December? I think there were more layoffs in December than
16:55
any type in the last 15 years and it looks like a lot of entry- level jobs are being wiped out. Maybe, maybe not.
17:01
But, you know, for the in the coding example, the grunt work is being done. And what people like Steve Trout and
17:06
Swift say is that it allows a a competent, you know, his example, a competent developer to be much more
17:13
productive. Now, he can put he can do two apps a day now in Xcode when it might have taken him weeks before. And I
17:19
think it's true that, you know, uh, they're not laying off the the senior developers. They're not laying off the
17:24
senior programmers, the people who really know what they're doing because and, you know, will feature people have
17:30
to learn coding? Probably because you kind of have to know what the machine's doing on your behalf. So, I don't think
17:36
it's entirely going to wipe that out. But it it does make you more productive. And I think on the consumer level, the
17:41
same is true that a lot of the, you know, the kind of grunt tasks that you don't want to do will be taken over by AI agents. And I don't think there's
17:48
anything wrong with that if you can trust them. Okay, now that's a big if. Uh, and right now you definitely can.
17:54
But this is what Apple's working on with the smarter Siri, isn't it? Trustworthy private secure AI agents that will take
18:00
out the grunt work of, you know, that that that right now some apps do for you. It's also going to have rippling
18:05
effects on the economy and the way that the existence of these tools it's shifting power away from entrylevel
18:11
people who you know just learn a little bit of coding go to a coding boot camp or have you know maybe they have a CS degree but they don't have any job
18:18
experience all of those jobs are going to be gone and that is going to be an absolute net negative on the world
18:23
because it's shifting the existence of these jobs only to the senior level positions and it's you know transferring
18:29
the ability to to make money on code like when when code is devalued. It's
18:36
shifting the ability to make money with the skill of programming only to the
18:41
Fortune 500 companies. Well, I maybe maybe not. And and
18:47
software has gotten more and more abstract, hasn't it? As as time has gone on. I mean, at at the beginning, you had
18:52
to learn how to you had to learn know machine code. And then it got abstracted up to another level with Forran and, you
18:59
know, whatever those other early programming languages. And now modern programming languages are even more abstract, aren't they? And now it's got
19:05
to the level of abstraction where you can just you can just you can you can it's it works with plain English which I
19:13
think is an astonishing and absolutely fantastic breakthrough.
19:19
It's amazing. It's amazing that that the machine can translate those ideas now
19:24
and just implement it and you don't have to know machine code. How many programmers these days know machine code? I mean they probably know exists.
19:30
They may have some like some, you know, some ideas about how it works, but they definitely don't learn it. And I think
19:37
this is, you know, now we've gone up to the another layer of abstraction where I think you have to know some of the, you
19:42
know, you have to know, you have to, you will definitely have to have the basics of what you want the code to do. You'll definitely, you'll have to know that
19:48
because it's not a good idea, you know, someone who doesn't know what they're doing in charge of something that might
19:54
be critical. This is getting a bit abstract now, but I think it's amazing breakthrough. I
20:00
think it's astonishing and I think there's definitely going to be a huge shakeout. Um, and I think there's
20:06
definitely going to come a time when there's going to be a huge backlash too when we find out there are huge downsides to this to to allowing agents
20:12
to do it. And we already know what they are. Like the the data centers are massive and require huge amounts of
20:18
power. It's less efficient. It's less energy efficient. Again, we're we're going to see the the the massive
20:24
economical impact of this and I don't think we're remotely prepared for that. Uh, honestly, if you're considering if
20:30
you're considering getting into a a white college job in programming, I'd say don't. Go to a trade school. Learn
20:36
how to become a plumber or an Well, that's funny. That's funny because so a good friend of my, you know, my 24 year old son, uh, his group of friends,
20:43
I mean, a couple of them have gone into the trades. They they went to one of them went to Berkeley and now he's, you know, working as a he's learning how to
20:49
be a carpenter because and he's thinking and he is thinking very clearly, very explicitly that, you know, he's having
20:55
trouble finding a job. He couldn't find a job. that was brought that this is you know what what uh in San Francisco this
21:01
is um uh what spurred it but he's also thinking ahead you know he doesn't think those skills are going to be disrupted
21:06
and almost every single white collar job is in the cross sites of AI and thinking
21:12
about his future he wants a blue color he wants a blue color trade and it's smart he's smart he's smart to do that
21:19
it's a good idea yeah I have a friend who works in HVAC and I have much more confidence in his career than I do mine
21:25
that's great isn't Wonderful. All right, let's talk about our next story. I think we've uh killed
21:33
that to death. And in fact, I've lost my kill it to death. Wow.
21:38
We've gone on about it too long. Let's talk about something a little more fun. The folding iPhone. Uh this is uh
21:46
yeah, we got to, you know, some more details of leaked and and the devil is in the details. I think this is what is interesting because it's it's telling us
21:52
a little more about what the what the the device might be like. And there's some there's some good news about the guts, too. Some very good news. Liner,
21:58
why don't you tell us about it? Yeah, a few weeks ago when we when I get actually have it right here, the the
22:04
folding iPhone mockup. I still pick it up and handle it every once in a while, but you know, we know we we think we
22:09
know roughly what the screen size and specs are going to be, but you know, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. And so this the information
22:15
is starting to trickle in to to on all these details. So, the latest leak comes from Instant Digital, who's a pretty
22:22
reliable uh leaker in China, who revealed on WBO more information. Similar to current iPhones, the right
22:28
side of the device will feature the Touch ID, integrated power button, and camera control. I think it it came out a
22:35
while ago that it's probably going to have Touch ID and not Face ID. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that. I
22:41
think that my at least my theory right now is that it will have Face ID, but
22:46
only on the front outer display and then when you unfold it and you're looking at, you know, the the big screen, you
22:52
know, it it's not going to have a second Face ID sensor there. So, it'll have Touch ID and the power button, kind of like an iPad, but I don't know. Some
22:59
people are saying it definitely won't have Face ID, but I'm I'm kind of hoping, I guess, wish casting. Um, so
23:04
yeah, Touch ID and camera uh control on the right side of the device, but you
23:10
know, then it leads to the question of where the volume buttons going to go. You can't have it on the left side because the left side is a hinge and the
23:17
sort of other edge you have when it's folded up, it would put all the buttons like right next to each other. Uh, so
23:22
they're saying u Apple plans to put the volume rocker on the top right edge as
23:28
seen on the iPad mini. So it's sort of on the top. Um, this is apparently due
23:33
to the company internally positioning the motherboard on the right so they won't have to route cables across to the
23:40
other half of the of the device, which certainly makes sense. Uh, this has
23:45
purportedly also enabled Apple to dedicate the entire space on the left to the screen structure and battery. As a
23:52
result, the folding iPhone could feature the largest battery capacity of any iPhone to date. I I did the math and it
23:59
has 75% more surface area than the iPhone air. So that's, you know,
24:07
the math. I did. Yeah. So what does that mean in terms of battery life? How much more battery life
24:12
will it be? Uh a lot more percent more battery life.
24:18
Okay. So you didn't do all the math there. Not all the math. No. But that that makes sense for like a
24:24
device that's going to be used like like an iPad for half the time, right? Uh it's going to have to have like iPad
24:30
like battery life. I mean, if you think about it, it has basically like three displays, so it
24:35
needs much a much bigger battery. Yeah. Um additionally, the leakers says the front of the foldable iPhone will sport
24:41
a single punch hole for the selfie camera. Apple appears Oh, okay. This actually explicitly says Apple will
24:47
ditch Face ID and stick to Touch ID on the device due to space constraints and technological limitations. games dashed
24:53
in like just a two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Um but it means it'll have a
24:58
smaller dynamic island, so you know that'll be fun on the front at least. At the rear, the dual cameras will sit
25:03
horizontally within an iPhone air like camera plateau. Apparently, Apple will only offer the iPhone Fold in two
25:09
colors, one of them being white. However, the company will purportedly finish the rear camera module in black
25:15
for a two-tone look. The other color hasn't been confirmed yet, but will likely be black. I think it also said in
25:21
his report that they they might only have one color at launch and come out with a second color later or maybe I
25:26
misread that. It was it was kind of interesting but uh I didn't expect them to to make this in a wide range of
25:32
colors. I mean it's going to be such a high-end expensive niche device. Um well right and it's each each color is a
25:39
huge um you know supply chain nightmare. Um and it's so much harder to keep all
25:44
these SKs juggled in the air. like it doesn't make any sense to have all these different variations for a brand new device. They have no idea if it's going
25:51
to take off or not. Yeah. So, it's a lot of iPad cues, a lot of iPad design uh touches. I like the
25:58
idea of the Laka as well. I remember the device that um it first appear well I don't know if that's true either but a a
26:06
device that it was famous for was like one of the iPad Nanos had this beautiful
26:11
button that was a home button um as well as a volume rocker. So if you press it
26:19
up at the top edge it put the volume up volume down at the bottom and press it in the middle it act like a home button.
26:25
So it was a threein one button. Uh, someone wrote a a an appreciation like
26:32
almost a you know this is one of Apple's best designs ever. There was some blog post that was going on and on about how
26:37
great a design this um this volume was and they wanted to bring it back for for
26:43
modern iPhones because they have buttons now. Huh? Never heard of the iPad Nano.
26:49
I you know iPod Nano. Don't be pedantic. Nate Lewis.
26:56
I'm sure AI can clean that up. Yeah. Mhm. I'm still uh trying to imagine what
27:02
timeline I'm going to be spending $2,000 plus on an iPhone because I still, you know,
27:09
even though I pay a monthly, you know, 57 bucks a month or whatever for the Pro, it's just like, oh my god, every
27:14
month another $57. Well, you can imagine doubling it.
27:20
Yeah. iPhone upgrade program. Yeah. And I I just I still, you know,
27:26
I'm sure this is going to be, you know, Apple doesn't make garbage, so I'm sure it's going to be an interesting device and and it'll be like, "Oo, look how
27:32
cool that is." But, uh, I still like in my day-to-day life, I
27:39
I don't have a need for a phone that flips out into an iPad. So,
27:44
you say now, only time I can really imagine it is like going on an airplane flight or
27:50
something, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose that's great, but is it really worth spending
27:56
all that extra money and and frankly lugging around a device that's
28:01
bigger, bulkier, and uh more fragile, you know, the other whatever it is, the
28:08
other uh you know, 363 days of the year that I'm not on an airplane.
28:13
I'm not looking forward to how fragile it's going to be. Like the other day I was, you know, I I'm borrowing somebody else's uh truck right now because my car
28:20
is uh getting some repairs and, you know, it's kind of dirty in there and I like sort of, you know, chuck my phone on the into the cup holder and I'm like,
28:27
if I had a folding iPhone, I I wouldn't just be able to do that. I would like very delicately like place it somewhere
28:33
or you know I was out with my dogs and you know run it running down the driveway and I was holding my phone in
28:40
my hand and I was thinking I don't know if I would be as comfortable doing this with a folding iPhone because if it
28:45
falls on the concrete it's absolutely broken and that's you know three times as much money that I've you know wasted.
28:51
So I'm I plan on getting Apple Care for it but I'm not looking forward to how how much more careful I'm going to have to be
28:58
with it. Apple Cares are definitely going to be a must have. This reminds me of before the iPhone came out. You remember people were carrying mobile
29:03
phones, clamshell phones, um and uh and an iPad and they had two devices and you
29:09
know, maybe this is this is kind of like the the modern version of that where you have an iPhone and an iPad and and you
29:15
don't need to use devices. You know, Steve AI Steve Jobs will be up on phone. It's an iPad. It's an iPhone. Are you
29:21
getting it? Well, it's it's a wallet drainer. Uh
29:27
yeah, I honestly if they don't get Face ID in there, that's going to seem like a big step back to me. Face ID is pretty
29:33
awesome. I mean, I wish it was faster, but the idea of having to always like
29:39
maneuver your hand up to a a Touch ID button. I And it never works. It never works for me. Ever. Ever. Ever. And I had to keep
29:46
constantly reprogramming it. Yeah. Especially if the button is on the far right side. Like it's going to be hard for me to reach that with my with
29:51
my finger. Doesn't Doesn't it seem like a weird omission? you you know here's our most expensive iPhone most it's the most
29:58
amazing iPhone ever and we can't wait to see how you use it with Touch ID which we introduced
30:04
what a decade ago years ago. Yeah in 2013 with the iPhone 5S.
30:10
Thank you Mr. Memory. More on that later. How the hell you remember all this
30:15
stuff? Yeah. So it's not just one foldable
30:20
iPhone. Apple is apparently pounding another one as Mark German, who's he again? Uh he reveals in his power on
30:28
newsletter the foldable iPad project which I'd completely forgotten about um
30:33
has hit a snag. Uh so Apple uh Labs team is considering another model a square
30:39
clamshell style foldable phone. So something like the old uh Moto Razor
30:45
uh and it may or may not hit the market. Apparently, everything will depend on consumer response to the first uh
30:50
iPhone. Um so if that's a hit, then they might come out with this. It's also going to hinge hinge on whether the
30:57
device can generate real demand for the category. Analysts believe Apple's entry into the foldable space could give the
31:02
segment a much needed boost in demand and expand its reach. While Samsung and others have been shipping foldables for
31:08
years, Apple's arrival is expected to move the needle. Uh even with a rumored 2000 plus price tag uh limiting mass
31:15
appeal, affordable iPhone will go a long way to grab attention and make people sit up and take notice. So yeah, the
31:21
clamshell one, I don't know. Do you want a clamshell? No, I I don't I don't see the point at
31:27
all. I've never looked at my phone and thought, man, I wish it was shorter and squarer and twice as thick.
31:33
Well, the the advantage is that you can uh it's much more foldable. It's much much smaller. You could you could definitely stick it in your front pocket
31:39
of your jeans of your skinny jeans of your tight skinny jeans. That was the advantage of the Razer. The I used to
31:44
love the Razer. I used to have them I had a whole bunch of Motorola Razors. A bunch. I had about three maybe or four.
31:50
Um they were wonderful little devices. They were fantastic little phones and the whole thing you flip them open. They
31:56
flipped open really beautifully and it was like a great form factor. I I love those things. I can imagine doing that,
32:02
you know, like because it' be like a little it would be like a regular iPhone that folds down into half its size or even, you know,
32:09
with the existing fold rumors of a foldable iPhone. I have a fully functional iPhone that unfolds into something twice as big. But the clam
32:16
shell foldables, you have to unfold your phone every time to use them. And that just sounds completely annoying to me. I
32:22
mean, I guess you don't have to fold up. You could just leave it unfolded. But then what's what's the point? Why what's
32:28
the point at that rate? Think about think about how many times you look at your phone during the day
32:34
and you're going to like that. There's not going to be a crease after, you know, opening it 150 times a day.
32:40
I mean, they've solved the crease issue. Really? I mean, apparently,
32:46
I I'll believe that when I see it, especially for something like this, you know, where it's like always you have to
32:52
open it to even use it. I mean, I don't know. That sounds pretty uh pretty
32:57
crazy. So, even more skepticism for the for the clam shell than the than the regular old folding iPhone.
33:03
Just sounds implausible. I mean, I guess it's years down the road if if it ever arrives, but uh I don't see the basic
33:09
problem with the iPhone as it is. I don't I don't see any compelling
33:16
uh reason to have a phone that to me sounds harder and more annoying to use
33:21
and costs, you know, two, three times what an iPhone does and probably won't have Face ID either.
33:28
God, man. I Yeah. Okay. And cost $3,000,
33:34
you know. I mean, and again, like you go to the store, you look at an iPhone Air, you pick it up, you go, "Wow, this is an
33:40
amazing piece of technology." I'm sure the same thing is going to happen if they do fix that crease problem and
33:45
they, you know, you know, there's been all this talk about the time and effort they're put into engineering the perfect
33:51
hinge, right? I'm sure it's going to be an amazing device. I'm just not sure that there's going to be, you know,
33:58
$2,000 worth of utility for, you know, me. I mean, I I can understand the the
34:03
argument that Apple will make. I I can see it coming. You're buying both an iPhone and a mini iPad. Sure, that that
34:10
could be $2,000 of value. But a clam shell phone, what's the extra value? What's the extra utility there? It
34:17
doesn't have the same argument. It has to be much cheaper than that to be a product. Yeah.
34:23
Think how many times you'll get to open this every day. It'll be completely annoying. Mhm. I
34:28
Not only that, but where's the Mag Safe? You know, they'll probably take Mag Safe out of it. I don't know.
34:33
Yeah. Or it'll only be on the bottom half and then your phone is sitting on a Mag Safe thing like offcentered and sideways or
34:40
I don't know. Could they split it up half and half? I don't know. Mag. I suppose they could.
34:46
The the Why couldn't I just magnets? Yeah, of course. I didn't even think of that, but
34:53
I just assumed they'd leave it out like they did with the uh what is this? 17E
34:58
16E. 17E 16E. Come on. I thought they were going to I thought they were going to straighten
35:03
this all out. I thought they were going to straighten all this number stuff out. I'm almost more confused than ever. Last part of
35:09
2005 or 2005. Oh my god. 2025. I was convinced it was already 2026 just
35:15
because they changed the names of all the uh operating systems. I can't wait till they uh come out with the iPhone 18
35:21
in 2027. Nope, that's this year. The iPhone 18 is
35:27
coming out this year because the iPhone 17 year 18 Pro is coming out this year. 18
35:35
18 is next year. Oh yeah, it's If you thought you were confused before. Yeah, right. Look how look how look how
35:41
clearly how how they clarified everything by changing all the numbers. It's so much simpler, so much easier to follow. Let's talk
35:47
about the myth of planned obsolescence which um Apple has long been accused of. Uh people have you know like forever
35:55
been accusing Apple of using software updates to reduce performance of older iPhones to force people to buy new ones. This is battery gate remember for about
36:03
from was it 2015. Um of course this is gradea certified bullpup and we can
36:08
prove it. Um, and this is, you know, proven by Apple's latest software
36:13
release, which, uh, updates every iPhone introduced since 2013.
36:20
So, uh, last week, uh, they put out bug fixes to iOS 12, iOS 15, iOS 16, and iOS
36:27
18. So, these update the iPhone 5S, which, uh, Griffin has has
36:33
right there. Look at that thing. Did you update it, Griffin? I did. I did just yesterday. I I got a
36:39
software update for my 13 year old phone. Great. 13 years. And of course, you know, like
36:45
in tech years, 12 and a half, but yeah, it's like a century. How long does the battery last on that
36:50
thing at this point? Um, it's pretty good, actually. Yeah. I I took a screenshot of the software
36:56
update screen just to commemorate it. iOS 12.5.8.
37:02
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that that's the oldest one, I think, the 5S, but it also updates the iPhone 6. the iPhone 6
37:07
Plus, iPhone 6S, all models, iPhone 7, iPhone SE, the first generation, iPhone
37:13
8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone 10, iPhone XS, uh the XS Max, and the iPhone XR. So,
37:20
Apple says, quote, "This update extends a certificate required by features such as iMessage, FaceTime, and device
37:26
activation to continue working after January 2027. Without that certificate,
37:31
all these older iPhones still in use would have become almost useless, and Apple could have let that happen, but it didn't." So legacy iPhones contribute to
37:38
Apple services revenue and this is why Apple wants to keep them running, hence all the recent iOS upgrades for them. I
37:43
don't know who wrote that. I don't think that's true. I think uh I think you know
37:49
this is Apple keeping its devices alive. But they used to make this argument that um back when Johnny Iv was still there.
37:54
They I I remember him and Lisa Jackson came out and they were talking about um uh their envir you know the
37:59
environmental green initiatives that Apple does. And one of the arguments they made is that Apple by making light
38:05
devices that last a lot longer, that's a green thing to do. That's that's an environmentally thing to do.
38:10
And Tim Cook also said, I think during one of their during one of the earnings calls, he answered a question like this and he said, "Why would we intentionally
38:17
make iPhones worse?" Because that won't make people want to buy another iPhone. People will fall in love with their
38:23
iPhones and they'll continue buying Apple products if they're great products. Why would we intentionally
38:28
slow them down? If your iPhone slows down after just a few years after software updates, you're not gonna want to buy an iPhone.
38:35
Yeah. Yeah. True enough. True enough. Like the logic just doesn't hold up. Well, planned obsolescence, you know, is
38:40
like uh goes back to the 1920s, I think, when uh a bunch of light bulb manufacturers, they formed a cartel to
38:47
uh to agree that light bulbs should be limited to a thousand hours. Uh which
38:52
forced people to to keep replacing them. Um, and of course, like, you know, since then, a lot of companies have engaged in
38:58
this this this this this practice and like cars, you know, my car's in the shop right now. Um, and, uh, my son
39:07
wanted to buy a car, you know, we we're discussing about mileage. He wanted to get a car that was like, I think close to 200,000 miles, and I was saying
39:13
that's not a good idea because, you know, like all these components, they're only designed for a certain
39:19
lifespan, you know. So, there's always a trade-off, isn't there? I mean, Detroit
39:24
could make a car that would last forever, but it would be heavy. It would be overengineered. There would be all
39:30
sorts of other trade-offs. Um, any product, no product is designed to last forever. It's
39:36
There is one car that was designed to last forever, and that was the original Toyota Land Cruiser. And you know what?
39:41
It's an 80,000 SU dollar SUV that for all intents and purposes is basically
39:46
just an overengineered 4Erunner. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so
39:52
Apple's been long accused of it. Battery gate was a great example, wasn't it? When they they they they uh they slowed
39:57
down iOS um to make sure that older iPhones that had aging batteries, they sometimes they were prone to shutting
40:03
down unexpectedly. So to stop that, they throttled them. And the mistake they and I think that's
40:09
quite reasonable, but of course they only explained this after the fact after there was a whole bunch of lawsuits. Um
40:14
they didn't they weren't upfront about this, which I think was the big mistake. Um, and they paid out $500 million, five
40:21
half a billion dollars in uh to settle these class action lawsuits. Um, and of course it it the the worst thing I think
40:28
is the the stink, you know, the the brand um damage to their reputation. You
40:34
know, people saying the other great example is all the the built-in batteries. I mean, like, you know, since the were there devices before the iPod
40:40
that had built-in batteries? I think that was one of the first devices in the consumer market anyway that where
40:47
you couldn't change the batteries and I remember there was a there was such an outcry about that. Um
40:53
people wanted to be able to uh to change the batteries on iPods like they wanted to be able to use regular AA batteries
40:59
but I talked to one of the designers on the design team and he said well they they made a conscious choice. It's to uh
41:06
two reasons. One is to less space. If you to to build in a compartment that's
41:11
accessible to the consumer takes up a lot of space. It actually makes the device a lot fatter um a lot bigger than
41:17
it needs to be. You can save a lot of space by putting in a built-in battery. And two is like um it increases the
41:24
water, you know, water um proofing the water resistance of the and dust
41:29
resistance of the device. you know, it makes it much easier to seal a device if you don't have to have a compartment with it with that's accessible to change
41:35
the batteries out. And I and and then the third thing I think I I think Phil Schiller talked about this is he said that people don't change batteries. They
41:42
think they want to they think they want a device that where they can swap the battery out easily. But in practice, I
41:50
think it's like 4% of people who buy an iPod or an iPhone or whatever, you know,
41:55
got to the point where they wanted to get a new battery for it. Most people are quite happy to hand it down and buy
42:01
a new one that's got newer features, um, better features, that's thinner or whatever, you know, got a better screen,
42:08
the whole upgrade cycle thing. Um, and of course that that's been Apple, that's been the big knock against Apple that
42:13
it's it builds in these consumables, a battery battery is not going to last forever. At some point, you're going to
42:19
have to replace it. And the fact that you can't do it easily yourself is planned obsolescence per excellence. And
42:27
also another piece of irony there is that in retrospect the iPod is far more repairable than the iPhones that came
42:33
after it. Like there's a huge modding scene on iPods where people do replace the batteries and even like replace the
42:38
cases with cool transparent cases and different colors, flash different operating systems on them. Like
42:44
uh from a modern perspective, the iPods are like incredibly simple little computers that you can actually do a lot
42:50
of uh you know retro modding to. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. I guess Apple with the latest iPhones as well has made
42:56
it a lot easier to replace the batteries. Mhm. Even though you have to like undo the glue or, you know, you have to heat them
43:02
up and get some kind of like sucker to to pull the thing apart. And you probably wouldn't want to do it anyway cuz it's you're probably going to ruin
43:08
it um with your big sausage fingers. But uh yeah, it uh I never believe that
43:14
that Apple planned obsolescence for his devices. I I think almost all of them have been designed to last a long time.
43:21
And iPhones have like three or four lives, aren't they? often. Yeah, I've I've operated on a lot of iPhones and I've successfully fixed some
43:27
of them. I've ruined a couple myself using iixer guides.
43:33
Yeah. Heartbreaking. Nothing worse than that. Especially after you bought the battery and everything like that and you have all these parts that you spent
43:39
money on and then you wreck it somehow. I can't even imagine thinking about
43:45
doing that. And of course, you could do it yourself. You can order the tools from them now and and follow theirs. They have the whole
43:51
service repair kit. Yeah. Then they ship they ship a hu like six boxes to you, don't they? And then
43:57
you have to send it back including sand, right? Does it include sand?
44:02
I wonder. I think so. Like there was some kind of thing like sand for, you know, safety with dealing with a battery
44:08
or something like that, you know, like in case there is a thermal event, as they say.
44:14
Yeah. I I would we should actually do that sometime just to see exactly how crazy
44:21
this the setup is that they send what it takes. You might need a new new room of your
44:27
house. That'd make for a good video. And I bet somebody else has already done it, unfortunately.
44:33
Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right. I think uh we should talk about notifications. So notifications like
44:38
this is actually one of the ways that the only ways I keep on top of stuff like uh you know seeing the notification
44:43
go whizzing by. But of course there are so many that it's easy to miss stuff. But there's a there's a good trick that Griffin is going to show us that to to
44:50
actually keep the important a trick to make sure that you don't miss the important notifications.
44:57
So you can set up uh persistent notifications from specific apps so they stick to the top of your iPhone screen.
45:04
So, when your iPhone is locked and unlocked and an important alert comes in, uh the notification will like stay
45:10
on the top of the screen until you act on it. And it's super handful for things like medication reminders. Um it works
45:17
wonders if you're the sort of person who ignores notifications once they disappear from your phone screen. It's
45:22
like poof, they're just gone forever. Uh so, it's super simple to set up. You just go to settings, tap on
45:29
notifications, and uh you can scroll down for specific apps like, and I'll just pick one off
45:36
the top here, like uh 2048 the game. Um I normally turn off notifications for games, but say, you know, substitute
45:43
this for any app that you might want notifications to stay on for. There's a setting here that says banner style. You
45:49
can tap on that and the default is temporary, but you say persistent. And then whenever those notifications come
45:54
in, they will, you know, stay there in your line of sight until you dismiss
45:59
them. It feels like your entire life just filters through your phone through notifications and they're all given like
46:04
equal weight. But uh this can this can balance that off. It's good for like uh calendar reminders, you know, meetings, phone
46:11
calls, stuff like that you don't want to miss. Medication reminders. It's absolutely perfect for I mean I I recently started
46:17
taking a medication. So take it after dinner, right? I can't tell you how many times I forget that and yet there it is
46:24
sitting at I I once I set this up now it's always there and even if you forget to do it like like let's say you go out
46:30
to dinner or something you don't happen to have the medication with you get home you know an hour later you look at your
46:36
phone oh crap I forgot to take that I I mean I don't want to use the term life saving but uh super amazing way to not
46:46
forget to take some crucial medication I think I have reminders set to have persistent notifications as So, when I
46:51
get a timed alert in reminders like take the trash out and I'm like, "Oh, I'll do that in a little bit. I'm in the middle
46:56
of something." Well, it stays on my screen until I manually act on it. And that's also super important. And, you
47:02
know, while you're here in the notification settings, this is also a good time to clean up um what
47:08
notifications your phone receives because, you know, part of the reason you're trained to ignore notifications
47:13
is because you receive so many that are complete junk or spam. So, you know,
47:18
that's why whenever I install a new game, I don't let it send me notifications at all because they almost
47:25
like what's a what's a game going to notify you about that's so important. I turn those off. I you know, shopping
47:31
apps, I turn those off wherever I can. Um I I I'm very strict about what apps
47:37
are allowed to send me notifications and that sort of alleviates the problem too. Yeah, totally good idea to some minor
47:42
extent. Messages are a good one to have permanent notifications for, isn't it? you know, getting me important messages
47:47
from c you and you could can you drill down and do that for certain people. Uh you can yeah you can tap on um you
47:54
can tap on a specific contact and I I think turn off their notifications or hide alerts is the setting for that. But
48:01
um if you if you go into an app um I also recommend you know maybe you want to see a few notifications as they come
48:07
in but you don't want them to build up in notification center over time because then you scroll down to notification
48:13
center and then it's like a big junk drawer of stuff. you can turn those off. Um, you can also turn off the badges,
48:19
but leave the notification banners turned on so that you know, you'll see them as they come in on your lock screen
48:25
or as you're using your phone. But, you know, the the red alert badges, if those bother you on your home screen, you can
48:31
disable those. Uh, that's another tip that I another thing I recommend for a lot of the less important apps in your
48:37
life. Yeah, I never use the badges. In fact, my um what my my my my mail app was
48:44
showing like 150,000 unread messages or something crazy. But I know that some
48:49
people like it that really does bother people like seeing the little red dot above the uh the icon and they're
48:55
obsessed about closing them and making sure that you know there isn't one. You sound like one of those people, Griffin.
49:01
I am absolutely one of those people. I I hate red badges. I just ignore them. 139 on Facebook,
49:08
six on Instagram. I think at that rate, the badges aren't telling you anything. And maybe you can turn them off.
49:14
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, I I think like like you said, um they aren't telling me anything. What I should do is I should I should make sure that I'm
49:20
only getting them for the important ones. Um and I should actually spend some time go through this stuff.
49:26
Leander don't need no stinking badges. That's right.
49:32
There you go. Yeah. I honestly I I did that immediately with this uh this medication
49:38
thing and I it really is helpful. It It's astonishing. So, thanks Griffin.
49:43
Life saving. You saved his life, Griffin. Literally, that's why you pay me the big money.
49:49
All right, we're going to lift a question. And this comes from
49:55
You're going to have to bleep this out. Turd 20 2402. 2402. Turd. I spelled T E
50:03
R D. And this came on uh YouTube. Lewis, what did he say?
50:08
Yeah. So, this comment says, "Uh, I always see reviewers talk about phone wobble when the device is laying flat on
50:14
a table. Do a lot of people really care about that. I feel like it's such a non-issue."
50:20
Well, I got to say, it bugged me when uh when I had the previous version of the
50:26
iPhone Pro, the 16. Now I got the 17. It's way less wobbly. Now it's like a a
50:33
wedge equally supported across the back by that what is it called? The awesome
50:38
plateau or the groovy plateau. What do they call? There's the iconic plateau which is on the iPhone air and the forged plateau
50:46
which is what you have. The forged plateau.
50:53
Wow, that sounds very Nordic or something. I don't know. Uh but anyway, do a lot of people care about it? I mean
50:59
I don't know. I I actually did. I I found it annoying to set my phone down.
51:04
Uh in fact, what I would often do is just lay it face down because I couldn't bear that wobble. Now it's it's
51:12
Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. Griffin, what was the first what was the you you remember this? Which was the
51:18
first iPhone that had a bump and and people lost their minds? The iPhone 6. But the camera bump on the
51:24
iPhone 6 was so tiny that the wobble was barely noticeable. But yeah, it did introduce a wobble for the first time, though. That's why they
51:29
lost their minds, wasn't it? Very slightly. Yeah. But yeah, I think you had to like tap in like the upper corner for that. But the thing is, as
51:36
the camera plateau has as the camera bump has grown and shifted downwards and also gotten significantly thicker. Uh,
51:43
you know, it's just a matter of physics. Like it's it protrudes more and so you get more of a wobble. When I set my
51:48
iPhone 16 Pro down on a table, I don't use a case. It absolutely wobbles a lot and it's really annoying when I'm trying
51:54
to type on it. Do you set your phone You set your phone down to type on it on a table? I mean, if I'm if I'm like trying to show
52:00
somebody something like, you know, oh, let's work add stuff to the shopping list. I sort of set it on a table so we can both see it and then I'm typing
52:07
things in to add it to my shopping list. It wobbles like if I'm, you know, the key, the W key.
52:13
Yeah. And it it's a big problem if you don't have your phone in a case. And this used to affect uh you know, people
52:19
who used cases as well because, you know, the the plateau is only in that one half of the phone. But now that it spans across the whole width, I mean, I
52:26
guess if if if wobble bothers you, uh, then, you know, buy an iPhone 17 Pro and
52:31
put it in a case. Apple fix wobble gate. Yeah. Now, now it's just
52:36
It's so true though. You I set my phone down, you know, beside me when I'm eating or something, you know, and it's
52:42
like, uh, you know, you just tap on the screen to do something, right? Because, you know, you get an alert. I I could believe, you know, somebody like you in
52:49
Slack, you'd get a work message while you're having lunch and you got to reply to it. So, you're tapping on In the old
52:55
days, wobble all over the place. Yeah, it's way better. Way better. Yeah. All right. Well, uh, thanks for
53:01
that question, Tur 2402. Uh, if you know, I'd love to hear what you think.
53:06
Um, we got to figure out a way to get um listeners to uh to send us messages and
53:12
we're going to try and set up a a number uh or an email address where you can FaceTime us um a video response. In
53:19
fact, we're going to do that. Let's make a commitment. We are going to do that by next week. Whoa. So, we're going to set that up and you
53:25
can send us a FaceTime message, a little recorded message, and we will play it on the show. And in fact, if you want, if
53:30
you have a question or any kind of comment, um send it to [email protected]. Why not? [email protected].
53:37
Email us uh some kind of video message and we'll play the good ones on the show, won't we, Griffin? Yes, I guess we apparently we will.
53:44
Yeah, we will. We're looking forward to it. All right, that's enough of this rubbish talk. That's a wrap. So, please give us a
53:52
five, six, seven, eight star rating on Apple Podcast and share it with anybody who you think can put up with this
53:57
stuff. Leave a comment on YouTube. Ask us a comment for the show. Ask us uh
54:03
questions, you know, if you have tech problems. uh we will try to uh solve
54:08
them. You can find Lewis on Twitter at Lewis Wallace. Griffin's on Macedon Griffin Jones. And like I said earlier,
54:14
I write the Cultmite Today newsletter every day which you can find at newsletters.cult.com.
54:19
Thanks everyone for listening, for watching, and we'll see you all next time. Have a great weekend everybody. Bye.
54:25
Goodbye. See you.
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