24″ Cinema Displays Get a Notable No Confidence Vote
1:15 pm, February 9th, 2009, Lonnie Lazar
Apple’s new 24″ LED Cinema Display suffers the fatal flaw of “ridiculous, terrible glare,” according to Jason Snell, editor of Macworld, who informed his Twitter followers Monday he’s putting his monitor back in the box and returning it to Macworld Labs.
Snell has spent his professional career as a writer covering Apple and, despite the presumed objectivity of his position as the editor of one of the larger, more recognizable mainstream media brands associated with the Cupertino computer maker, likely wouldn’t give up on such a major piece of Apple hardware unless he felt it was poorly executed.
Snell, of course enjoys a luxury many consumers do not, in that he can give his display back to the magazine’s lab and not have to worry about its cost or the space it may take up sitting unused in a corner or on a shelf. Average folk who’ve bought Apple’s new display and discovered after using it for a time that the glare is unbearable have far fewer options for doing anything about it.
What about you, dear reader – how do you feel about Apple’s embrace of the glossy screen on its flagship display? Is it worse in the wild than the glossy notebooks’ display? Would you send it back to “the Lab” if you could?
Posted by Lonnie Lazar in Apple, Hardware, Media, News, Opinions, Top stories | Comment on this article
I live in Florida – lots of sun. I purchased an anti-glare big screen plasma TV. No glossy screens for me. ‘Nuff said.
windest, on February 9th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
FAIL.
Apple lost its balance on this issue – looks (turned off) won over the actual use of the product. ..and every single new product being released with this reflecting screen.
Apple, please don’t waste your time – revert to the best product and get back on track.
“Apple make products they, themselves, would use”. I bet the majority of Apple is holding themselves back on this issue, not to piss off whoever thinks their idea is outstanding. Let it go. Yes, it looks amazing on the desk – but you can’t work professionally with it. Sorry. Let it go. Let it go. We all want the best back.
Pea-ce! -b
TheBrew, on February 9th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I do not like the glossy displays either. We are getting a new unibody MacBook and are going to try one of the anti-glare screen protectors on it. Not sure what Apple is thinking, the glare is very distracting. As for home, we will stick with our 23″ matte ACD and hope they come out with a matte option for a future model. Maybe someone will make a anti-glare screen protector for the 24″ new model, kinda a mickey mouse deal but might be better than looking at yourself all day.
chazz, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
What make the glare unbearable? What is different from the glass tube monitors we was using before glossy LED Screens and Glossy screens like on iMac? Remember before the Trinitron tubes screens monitors had a bubble screen so glare from the light made the picture look washed! What was magazine using before LCD screens?
Deon D, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Don’t own one, just tested one in the store. But “ridiculous, terrible glare†is ridiculous in itself. But then I’m also one of the “few” who like glossy MacBooks, so maybe my opinion doesn’t count…
mmnw, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
He can always send me the monitor, I won’t complain about such a beautiful piece of hardware!
Matt Bernier, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I love my display. The colours are crisp and the build/design typical of apples quality and aesthetics. The glare is somewhat noticeable, but doesn’t really detract from it for me.
Admittedly I don’t use my mac for image editing or colour work so I can see why professionals may find it less than adequate. My only criticism is that the cable connecting it to my macbook could be a little longer. All in all, I wouldn’t send mine back to “the Lab!”
Guillermo Regalo, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I think, that in the decision to go to these glossy screens, Apple is ignoring the people who used to be their core constituents: Creative Professionals.
I use a 17″ MBP with a Matte Screen at home/on the road and a 30″ Cinema Display at the office. They have an awesome, paper-like, non-reflective screen that is awesome to work on.
Both my business partner and my wife have MacBooks with glossy screens that drive me NUTS. Even moderate amounts of direct (or even reflected) light gives off a glare that makes it hard to read, REALLY hard to judge color, and annoying to try and do anything that requires you to differentiate between colors that aren’t “full saturation,” like, say, watch a movie (or edit an image) that uses remotely subdued lighting.
I find myself getting headaches from attempting to discern between the image on the screen and the image of myself being reflected back by the light it’s emitting, especially if I’m wearing glasses.
It’s positively ridiculous. Here’s to hoping that my 30″ runs forever and DVI remains a viable spec for a long time. Otherwise I’m gonna end up shelling out $5000 for an Eizo or NEC, and who wants to do that?
Jon, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
THE APPLE 24 inch CINEMA DISPLAY IS ALSO NOTHING BUT A REPACKAGED LG display AT triple the price! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!
Hector, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I have no issues with the glossy display. I think “where” you use it has alot to do with it’s glare issues. I use it in my home in a computer desk that I have zero issues with light. What boggles my mind is the people crying over it and they never thought to do any research or look at others comments online. If a consumer buys a MBP or this new cinema display and didn’t bother to read reviews about it’s “glossy” issues they are idiots and deserve to pay a restocking fee.
JD, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I have one of the shiny iMacs in a normally lit office and don’t notice the glare- even doing finicky Photoshopping. Mr. Snell can send this monitor to me, it will not sit on a shelf. Possibly if I were using a shiny laptop in a brightly lit airport or something, then it might be a problem, but it sure is not a problem in an office.
Louise, on February 9th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I would much rather have a little line of reflection, than massive diffused washed out image.
There are some who prefer that look of washed out images. but If I am in a doing color sensitive work, I turn the lights down, or get a monitor hood. regardless, the images and colors on a high-gloss screen are many times superior to a matte screen.
douglas, on February 9th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Technically speaking the monitor is a 26″ display
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html
Interesting to note that when I purchased my 20″ iMac a year ago today, I were seriously considering the 24″ option, but to my surprise the salesmen in the shop convinced me that if I were going to do video editing, I ought to not get the 24″ since the bigger screen according to their advice were hampered with a significant glare factor !
vrtulobjeq, on February 9th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Apple is unfortunately creating very big mistakes… they are selling to the lowest common denominator (note the lack of features of the current iMovie compared to iMovie HD).
Glossy screens look pretty, but are nothing but flash and trash. They do not reproduce colors correctly (ask any of the many professional photographers out there bemoaning the color accuracy and quality of their prints), but sell to those whose technological savvy equates to “looook…. pretty colors!!”
I won’t even get started on the loss of Firewire on certain models that shall remain nameless or the lack of professional scientific software that makes the Mac platform all but useless in the real world. Oh… and let’s not forget the impossibility of updating your computers and iPhone via MobileMe if you happen to be using VPN…
BTW… this is from someone who LOVES his 24″ iMac, his old iBook laptop, his iPhone, his iPod, and has a blast bragging about all Apple can do!
macvspc, on February 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I have no probs with both of my Apple glossy screens including MBA. Not an issue really, not for me and I spend long hours in different lighting scenarios (day-night and different locations). I would prefer a glossy screen rather than a dull screen. Don’t like the glare? Move it or use an anti-glare film, or comparison shop before you buy if you are that specific about you screen needs. Sheesh.
MSAL, on February 9th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I find a pack of cigarettes a day in front of my mac helps cut down on glare. Maybe he should take up smoking? Or maybe a free meal isn’t always worth eating? Or some other words that form more sentences about me not caring.
dadsgravy, on February 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
No problems with my glossy 13″ MacBook either, maybe it is a bigger issue on a bigger screen.
I’ve an old large glass CRT, never really worried about it being reflective. We’ve also a large LCD tv in the living room and even though it’s matte it still has a certain glare from the ceiling light.
Isn’t it more about placement with either? I’m sure he’s right for him, I’d not really know until I tried it (wouldn’t it be nice to have that option)
Stuart, on February 9th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
My glossy screen is fine at work, where the lighting is constant. I can find a position without glare. But on a laptop ? What were they thinking ?
skidoo, on February 9th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I LOVE the glossy screen. The color is much more brilliant the picture is much more pleasing to the eye. I recently sold my iMac for a Mac Pro. Sorely miss the beautiful glossy screen. I can’t wait for Apple to make an adapter so I can get the 24″ LED screen for my new Mac Pro.
phatslacker, on February 9th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
This display ought to have been a home run for Apple. A top-of-the-line S-IPS panel instead of the junk that’s increasingly going in displays nowadays. LED backlight. Excellent built in docking. Good built-in sound. All at a price that normally gets you just the S-IPS panel and florescent backlight.
But that horrible glass. It’s a disaster and until Apple offers the matte option that a display in this price range demands, it will deserve to fail.
I got tired of waiting for Apple to bring out a decent replacement for the iffy 23 inch Cinema Display and instead got an NEC 2490. Very glad I did too. Later when Apple inflicted this permanent reflection on their customers, and with the stupid interface restriction too, I felt even better.
And while I’m at it, WHEN is Apple going to at least restore the matte option to the 15 inch MacBook Pro? At the current rate I’m hoping Psystar wins their lawsuit so that, if Apple haven’t brought matte back to the 15 inch when my current matte-screen MBP is due for replacement, I can at least get a Lenovo or something that has matte, and put OS X on it.
Apple has been persistently limiting customer choice of late. Glossy-only MacBooks. Now, glossy-only 15 inch MacBook Pros, forcing people who need a reflection-free display into getting the oversized 17-inch model or wait. Mac Minis that haven’t been updated in a couple of years, removing a convenient headless option on the desktop. iMacs and MacPros that haven’t been updated in forever either, and in the case of the iMacs also inflict the glossy torture. In short, they’re putting up so many barriers to using hardware of your choice that the aspiring “clone” vendors deserve to win in court overwhelmingly.
DBX, on February 9th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Eh? Haven’t a clue what he’s going on about…
I’ve got one of the new 24-inch displays in my office. There isn’t anything wrong with them. One of the brightest, sharpest, clearest screens I’ve ever used.
Alasdair Allan, on February 9th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
1. The glare is so bothersome that I have to turn off any lights above or behind me when I use it. At least I’m at home and can turn them off without disturbing others.
2. The light emanating from the screen is so bright that it hurts my eyes. Yes, I’ve turned it down as far as it will go. It really limits the amount of time I can look at the screen. I’ve tried to make all background colors dark, and have a very dark green as my desktop color, but can’t find a way to do that on Safari windows or Mail windows.
3. I asked the geniuses at our local Apple store if there was a remedy. NO.
Surely someone can find a way to fix this. I really think I may be damaging my eyes.
LW, on February 9th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I think MacWorld is upset Apple won’t be coming back… I wondered how long this would take.
Van Souza, on February 9th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
what a lot of whiner!
mobileme and vpn ?? who careS?! VPN is a professional niche! vpn is ALWAYS problems. I can’t begin to tell you thousands of horrible stories about vpn. The good news ? you can work to enable whatever protocols inside a vpn. WORK !
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imovie 09 has many functionality and improvement from imovie hd and 08. Some blogguers explain now imovie09 is superior.
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I have to tell : PEople, real people, many many real people prefers glossy screen. I observed that in my work, in shops, anywhere, students, old people, anyone. Only technicals inclined one and fanboys are so crazy about glossy or mate.
I read dpreview.com forums, a website about photography : theses peoples, many telling there are professionals are fighting among themselves about glossy or mate. some people tell it’s superior, some tell it’s horrible regression. so what ?!
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macbook pro can now be ordered with a mate finish. professionals are happy.
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24″ cinema display is not an overpriced LG screen. There are world between some LG stuff and others device made for apple or others. The main reason why this display is expensive is the LED-lcd, the colorimetry and the materials.
and yeah, it’s an apple. so ? are you surprised ? even after 30 years of apple history?
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“BTW… this is from someone who LOVES his 24″ iMac, his old iBook laptop, his iPhone, his iPod, and has a blast bragging about all Apple can do!
”
STOP loving APPLE ! it’s a company, it’s some computers, some tools. Apple is NOT your girlfriend.
You BUY the product, not give love to apple. Apple doesn’t “love” you (they like you sure, because there are surely nice people working there, but it’s all”
you shouldn’t “brag” about all apple. You should juste use the good product and let people around you see the product can be useful and pleasant.
you have NO string attached to Apple, neither Apple earns you something beside money
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so yeah, Apple has the right to do a product NOT FOR YOU ! (for example, the apple tv is NOT FOR ME, I’m not dying). there are other products and choice.
this time, it’s a glossy crazy display primarily made for for the new macbook line.
oomu, on February 9th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I love my MacBook Pro glossy. The colors couldn’t be more rich and true to form. Movies on the screen are excellent. I didn’t think that I would like it,
but I couldn’t be happier. Thanks Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael Biel, on February 9th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
The annoying limitations of this display greatly limit its utility, effectively crippling it as a product for many.
Torley, on February 9th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I love the glossy screen.
Colors are more saturated.
Contrast is higher – so blacks are blacker.
The LED Backlight makes this brighter and longer-lasting than a flourescent tube backlight screen.
The 24-inch screen is also thinner and lighter than the one it replaces.
A glare reducing film or screen can be applied over it if desired.
A glossy screen can be made less glossy.
But a matte screen can never be made glossy.
Movies just POP in a glossy screen, giving them a more life-like and 3D appearance. Movies on Matte screens are just flat.
James Katt, on February 9th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
I’m tired of all of the people whining about the glossy screen. I have a new 15″ Macbook Pro and occasionally I notice some reflections, but just adjusting the angle solves the problem. I absolutely LOVE my MacBook and I think that the glossy screen is a non-issue.
Mark, on February 9th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I use a 24 inch iMac with no trouble. Glossy screen.
My 19″ Samsung monitor at work is glossy. No trouble.
Apple is not the only company offering glossy screens. It’s an industry wide trend, and essentially produces screens that offer a deeper black. As computers take a more prominent role in entertainment, it’s not surprising to see this become more common.
As a commenter above noted: for years, EVERY screen was glossy. CRT’s had enormous glass tubes. It was only laptop users who had non-glossy screens, until the last few years when LCD screens became common on desktops.
Glossiness is only ONE factor in the reflectiveness of a screen. There are many others. Perhaps the most notable one is the brightness of the screen relative to its outside environment. A brighter screen will reflect less, broadly speaking.
Darcy McGee, on February 9th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Gloss versus matte is clearly a personal preference, probably close enough to 50/50 that Apple should offer both.
Sky, on February 9th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
As a professional photographer, I have chosen the option to pay more for less glare.
Apple is now more of a consumer oriented company than ever before. In general, I don’t think consumers even think about their screens in terms of “glossy” or “matte”. And from a marketing perspective, the glossy screen is definitely a “better” screen.
I can only hope (pray, really) that I’ll always have the matte screen option.
Mac Pro + Cinema 30″ (matte)
Macbook Pro 17 (matte)
iMac 24″ (matte)
/Joakim Lloyd Raboff
Joakim Lloyd Raboff, on February 9th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Add me to the list of people completely satisfied with the glossy screen on the new MBP – I didn’t think I would like it, but it’s been a non-issue, the LED screen is bright enough at all times to reflect hardly anything. In return, I get an incredibly rich picture. When I put the machine side-by-side with my last generation LCD matte-screen MBP, the image on the old machine looks faded and washed out. I was a sceptic, now turned convert, at least as far as the portable screens are concerned. Maybe the bigger 24″ monitors face different issues.
Ian, on February 10th, 2009 at 1:56 am
Apples’ GLASS glossy screens are HORRIBLE. Simple as that.
People who like them and even prefer them, just dont know any better.
And lets make something clear. I m refering to the glossy screens with that ridiculus glass. Thats the main problem. The glossy screens with no glass (like the previous macbook) are a lot more tolerable in terms of glareness. But the ‘new’ iMacs and the new macbooks are really awfull.
Petskos, on February 10th, 2009 at 2:35 am
First, how hard would it be to have an option on all their products (or at least the higher end ones) like they had before on the 15″ MBP matte or glossy. Then we could just choose and all be happy.
Second, I am guessing that it is cheaper and easier to make the glossy screens for notebook and desktop monitors and this is the primary reason all these manufactures are pushing them, calling them “better” if I remember right it was the cheap low end notebooks that got the glossy screens first JMHO.
I have seen and used both, I prefer matte for most everything although I could understand that in a very dark room where you are not sitting very close to the monitor the glossy may have some advantages.
Another thing that I have not seen mentioned is that a glossy screen makes the screen door effect of the pixels more noticeable. The 24″ is already pushing the boundary of desirable pixel per inch specs, as I can easily see the pixels at normal distances. This monitor should have been higher resolution for the size (more pixels per inch) the old 23″ is actually better in this regard as it is the same res but slightly smaller screen.
Hopefully they make a big brother that has higher pixel per inch and also a matte option. But then it would be to expensive for mere mortals like the current 30″. sigh…….
chazz, on February 10th, 2009 at 3:59 am
I don’t understand all the fuss – This isn’t meant to be mobile – like a laptop – so presumably if glossy is whay you want you can control the studio / office lighting to suit?
I am a graphic designer sat in my studio typing this on the 24″ glossy screen iMac I use all day for graphics work. I will go home tonight and check to see any new comments on this thread on the 24″ glossy screen iMac I have in my home office.
To me, despite all the hoohaa over colour gamut or accuracy (I’m not a pro photographer, but obviously colour is vital in my profession) I think the glossy screen in a static, as opposed to mobile situation is a great way to go.
Fair point on the previous post on glass tube CRTs being glossy too – over the last 18 months I have been steadily replacing the 15 LaCie Electron 20″ CRT monitors in my studio with Apple 23″ flat screens – and once the 24″ model work properly with desktops I’ll probaby switch to them too…
Mark Case, on February 10th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Gloss > Matte ANY day. People complaining are always in some obscure situation like they’re orbiting the sun and they start to apply the problem to home users.
I wouldn’t buy an iMac or Macbook these days without a glossy screen.
Duality, on February 10th, 2009 at 5:36 am
I bought a MBP 17″ with the “hi rez glossy” screen, sight unseen – and I’ve been loving the glossy screen. People get too hung up about reflections and that’s all they’ll ever see. I don’t notice them. What I do notice is bright, saturated color and a really sharp screen (don’t forget matte flattens contrast and diffuses details). When it comes time to replace my 24″ desktop monitor (an older Dell) I will probably go with glossy there, too (and I use it for photography).
Michael Holve, on February 10th, 2009 at 6:51 am
I have been a strong supporter of matte displays for so long, that I even went to far as to have the glass frosted on all my CRT monitors and televisions. Trinitron be damned!
Mike, on February 10th, 2009 at 7:09 am
So what have we discovered from this?
Some people like their glossy screen and some people don’t.
Neither are actually right or wrong.
I know it’s boring.
Stuart, on February 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Glossy screen is the reason I haven’t updated my 17-inch Macbook Pro 1920×1600 to current model.
I note that above some people say CRTs used to be glossy, so why not LCD? Well I remember offices full of CRTs with anti-glare screens in front of them; and I can see the return of such products for Apple’s displays.
I just hope they don’t do this with the larger cinema displays, if 30-inch go glossy, the next time I need a screen I’ll have to shop elsewhere.
Vanillacide, on February 14th, 2009 at 3:04 am
Oops, 1920×1200 :$
Vanillacide, on February 14th, 2009 at 3:06 am
I was a little apprehensive at first about purchasing the new MacBook and MacBook Pro as they both have only glossy screens â€â€Ã‚ but what I didn’t take into account was how bright these new screens are. Even with a glass front, glare has been NO PROBLEM for me at all, as the screens brightness pushes right through any reflections.
I would suggest to anyone who is apprehensive about the new screens, as I was, to just go and try one out for yourself at an Apple Store. You might find that while in theory glass doesn’t sound like a great idea, in practice it’s great!
rdas7, on February 17th, 2009 at 4:14 am
Remember back in the dinosaur days of CRTs, when we had to go out and actually purchase anti-glare filters and it was an expensive selling feature for a display to have an anti-glare coating from the factory?
Yeah, now we have a bullet list of features that INCLUDE this highly reflective surface that could be used to signal a search plane if you’re lost in the woods. Ridiculous! I watched a guy standing in Best Buy adjust the angle of a notebook he was looking at… had to be 15 times in the 4 minutes he was standing there. And yet, when the shelf-jockey sauntered by, he asked if they had them in stock.
These things have to be extraordinarily bright to overcome the glare of typical office lights, which means washed out colors (pro designers obviously need not apply), more battery drain for notebooks and it’s very hard on the eyes in general. Brilliant design for a company that seeks to keep their professional audience, who are the only ones that will pay the premium for Apple’s displays. I only know a of a single person that is not a design pro that has an Apple display… and when he went for a 2nd 30″ display, he did not buy Apple again.
Furo, on February 17th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
This whole glossy/matte battle is really silly. While I think Apple should provide both options the constant complaining from the anti-gloss people just sounds more and more like a chorus of crying infants. I’m a power user and I have never had issues with a glossy screen, on a desktop or on a laptop.
Chris Peterson, on February 18th, 2009 at 3:23 am
In theory, glossy displays like the 24″ LED Cinema Display offer a far better reproduction of the raw digital information – making photo retouching far more accurate.
However, in practice, the reflective nature of the display limits its real world effectiveness. For instance, regardless of how bright the LED backlight is, it doesn’t help when you are trying to retouch dark areas. As a result, the technically inferior matte delivers far better real world performance.
The argument about the pros and cons of glossy vs. matte will go on forever. But one thing is for sure, there are a lot of people out there who prefer glossy – and the longer Apple refuses to offer matte displays, the longer it is simply cutting its nose off, to spite its face.
Wilson, on February 21st, 2009 at 7:29 pm
I sold my iMac 24″ after 3 months of use and got a new mini to usr with my matte screen. Aweful glare. First time in 15 years that I regretted buying a mac and seriously considered giving up on apple.
Jj, on April 8th, 2009 at 5:24 am