Bottom-Quoting Add-On Makes Mail Better All Over

20091117-quotefix.jpg

Good news! Two doses of it, in fact.

First: QuoteFix for Mac fixes the problem of top-quoting in Mail! Now you can use Mail and reply to email messages underneath the text of the message you’re replying to, as God intended things to be.

Second: I got this tip from Tim Gaden’s Hawkwings blog, which has had a fresh burst of energy over the last month or so, and is now buzzing with tips about using Mail (and other cool things to make your Mac using life easier). If Hawkwings isn’t in your RSS reader or on your list-of-sites-to-keep-an-eye-on, I urge you to add it there.

Addendum for people who can’t see what the fuss is all about

There’s an old internet joke that you’ve probably heard a thousand times:

A: Because people don’t like reading backwards
Q: Why is top-quoting a bad idea?

Email is a very personal thing. Most people don’t care how their replies are displayed in their email software, but for those of us who’ve been around long enough to remember when “email client” was the term used for “email software”, some things – like whether you quote at the top or the bottom – matter a lot.

Most modern email services top-quote. By which I mean when you hit reply, the original message is underneath and your reply is on top. Makes no logical sense, but people have got used to things being that way. It’s just How Email Works for millions.

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Gmail made things a little better, by retaining top-quoting but keeping messages in context as threaded conversations. Combined with its “Show quoted text” feature, it makes top-quoting bearable.

Thing is, Mail top-quotes too, and those same people – you know the ones I mean – hate it for that. Now, at last, there’s something for them. QuoteFix sorts it all out and makes it work the way it should. There. That’s better isn’t it?

About the author

gilest

Giles Turnbull is a freelance writer in England. He writes for the Press Association and The Morning News. He has a website you can ignore and a Twitter account you needn't follow.

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Posted in News, Opinions, Tips & Tricks |

  • Charli

    Top quoting is less of a sin than

    1. quoting nothing and giving a context required reply. thus making sure no one has a clue what you are talking about

    2. quoting everything (especially in a many replied message)

    And is is really that hard to put the cursor where you want it.

  • Skuli

    Why would you want to scroll to the bottom of a long threaded email to read a reply? Top quoting makes all the sense in the world. If you want the back story, then read down.

  • http://www.tony-hart.com Tony Hart

    Skuli makes the obvious point so willfully overlooked by the bottom-quoting brigade.

    Most emails require me to only read the most recent thing for me to understand the conversation as in most cases I have been a part of that which came earlier.

    When this is not the case, scroll down. Why make me scroll down most of the time when I rarely need to?!

    Well put Skuli!

  • Ken

    Skuli makes a good point, but if people would do as Charli points out and only quote from the message you are responding to rather than include the entire thread history in your message, people wouldn’t have to scroll down. Keep message history in the message thread and not in every message IN the thread! :)

    That said I hung up my sword and shield in this war long ago, but my children will be taught to bottom-quote! ;)

    Thanks for the article Giles!

  • Don Pope

    Bottom quoting only makes sense for short emails with one or two replies. For anything else top quoting is vastly superior.

  • Gazoobee

    You are wrong about top-quoting in that you tell us the negatives without even trying to think up some reason why it might be that way. I get lots and lots of email and most of it has bounced back and forth between several parties before it even gets to my inbox.

    I need to be able to look at it and see the nature and scope of the conversation and the back and forth, but I also need to cut to the chase and make a decision about what to do. Top quoting is perfect for that.

    A three page email that starts off with the original, usually poorly worded complaint from a user is best read “back to front.” I don’t care what the original person even says half the time, I need to know what the discussion about it is and what the last thing said was. This is true of most business communications.

    Bottom quoting is more conversational, and not good for professional environments. It’s also not good for anything over a send/reply pair in that every time you send that email back and forth, the receiver has to immediately scroll through a few pages to get to the part they want to see. It also encourages inter-quoting, which again, after a few back and forths makes the message unintelligible.

    You imply that top-quoting exists merely by happenstance and because “that’s the way it always has been,” when in fact, it exists because it’s the best most efficient method for the largest number of people using email. There is no conspiratorial collusion between email client providers as you also imply, they all arrived at the same solution simply because it’s the best one.

  • Don

    Wow, welcome to 1997.

    Why don’t we all go back to using Lynx, Gopher, and Mosaic.

    Bottom quoting is useful if you’re replying to your grandmother’s letter, but totally unacceptable in any professional or business environment. When people receive 100s of emails everyday, that they’re expected to read/browse, scrolling to the bottom of every email just to see the reply is a total waste of time.

  • tyromind

    Yeah…. no Giles. It’s less productive, a time waster, messing looking, and just retarted to reply underneath quotes – I abhor emails written like that

  • http://ObamaPacman.com Obama Pacman

    Yeah agree with most of the comments here. For most people, it doesn’t make sense to scroll through the conversion you already had to get to the new part.

    Yes there is benefit, if you are CC into a long conversation you are not part of, then it’s easier to figure out what’s going on, but that’s in rare occasions. Overall it’ll probably waste more time not using top-quoting.

  • Fuzzypig

    Most of us in work have to use the arghh, Outlook, it auto-top-quotes.

    I started using computers at 7 years old…in 1981, so I am oldish and remember using bottom-quoted email in the bad old days, didn’t like it much then, but you lumped it, then at some point it flip over, was it when CC:Mail was big?

    Sorry, but things move on and top-quoting more sense, it’s just something you get used to, it’s the way almost mail clients work now. An email thread is a chronological story, you read from eldest element to youngest, then add your very latest part to the ongoing story, at the top of the stack.

  • Robert

    Top *posting* is bad, top *quoting* is good! :-)

  • Joseph

    “Makes no logical sense, but people have got used to things being that way.”

    It prevents users from having to scroll through a series of replies to read the most recent one. And in the vast majority of cases the most recent reply is the only one a user wants to see. That makes plenty of logical sense.

  • Charli

    @Don. if you briefly quote what you are referring to, then reply it is more logical to reply under the quote. but i’m talking brief. like one line max. a few words is even better.

  • Buck

    I am 3 time zones behind our engineering group. When I get to work I typically see a long back and forth between 3 or 4 people, some of them making verbose comments on technical issues. Acting on the last thing said w/o reading the entire conversation is almost always a bad thing.

    In this (my) situation top quoting is annoying; scrolling up and down, up and down just to get the entire scoop.

    So to say bottom quoting is ‘not good’ or ‘totally unacceptable in any professional environment’ is well…. unacceptable :P

  • Steve

    @Buck, why not just read the previous emails first? You obviously sort by latest date first so you want the most current message at the top. Which is exactly what top posting is as well. How people sort emails is as much to blame as how an email is constructed.

    When I get to work, to catchup on emails I start with the oldest emails and then read back up so I know the full story.

    p.s. I’m a top poster and won’t even change!

  • Steve

    even=ever… won’t EVER change. Might learn to spell though.

  • Jono

    It is hard to believe that adults can be having a debate on such an issue. Grow up a little bit!