Apple Decides Hate Isn’t A Christian Value, Pulls iTunes From Christian Value Network

Apple Decides Hate Isn’t A Christian Value, Pulls iTunes From Christian Value Network

For years, Apple has been affiliated with a little online shopping portal called CVN.org, otherwise known as the Christian Value Network. The site raises money for various religious groups by taking a small slice of product purchases at over 600 participating companies, including Apple and iTunes.

Sounds innocuous, right? Except that several of those religious groups are described as “active hate groups” that regularly engage in “anti-gay, anti-women” activities. And after a petition that garnered 22,000 signatures, Apple has yanked their support from the CVN and pulled iTunes from the network.

Techland has some of the details on some of these groups:

A few of the groups are certainly controversial. For instance, the founder of Abiding Truth Ministries, Scott Lively, wrote a book titled “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party,” which attempts to link homosexuality with extreme militarism in the Nazi party, and the Family Research Council actively lobbies against LGBT rights and advocates a one-year waiting period before a married couple with children can legally divorce (excepting domestic abuse).

Apple’s about as friendly a place towards women and GLBT as you can find in the tech industry: heck, it is widely believed that Apple COO Tim Cook is gay. I’m not surprised that they pulled their support from the network once concerns about the type of groups they were supporting were raised. Good for them.

Apple’s not the only company to pull out of CVN, either: Microsoft dropped out two weeks ago, along with Macy’s, REI, Delta Airlines, BBC America and Wells Fargo.

Gee, you’d think CVN would get the message here, and dump groups that actively promote hate instead of the actual Christian values of love, tolerance and kindness that Christ actually promoted.

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  • Greg Wallace

    “anti-gay, anti-women” – Not leaving much choice there really are they!

  • bergrbergr

    Well stated, John. I think your last sentence is exactly what CVN needs to do.

  • Cassandra

    It sure would be helpful to know how “anti-gay, anti-women” is defined in practice, no?  Just because someone who doesn’t like these groups defines them as such doesn’t necessarily make it so, does it?  How ’bout some links indicative of the kind of behavior or stances that merited this action, as opposed to just allegation?  If one’s philosophical opposition can now define him, we’re all subject to boycott and ostracism.  Fascism never starts overnight; it creeps, vine by vine.

  • Cindon83

    If Apple was truly concerned for women’s rights, would they have their components built in China, that is one of the largest violators of woman’s rights in the world.  

  • James Zbach

    So, let me get this straight, if you oppose homosexuality, you’re defined as a “hater”? The Bible is clearly opposed to it. Therefore, it makes sense that Christian groups have a problem with it. Not sure what they do that is considered “hate”, maybe they deserve it. But maybe not, and maybe it’s the homosexual groups that’s practicing hate. Any opposition to these groups is considered hate, according to their actions.  

  • adamriggins

    I liked that last line too.  Very well said!

  • Alex

    This story is a bunch of bollocks. All headline, no facts. Typical blog post. Anti-gay, anti-women indeed. Why not throw in anti-men as well just to get more pageviews?

  • Cassandra

    Old slogan: “Think different”.  New slogan: “Ve have vays to make you conform.”

  • Hilton979

    Stupid.  The would never ban a group on the left that says the equivalent things about those on the right.  

  • diesel-benz

    The actual Christian values of love, tolerance and kindness that Christ actually promoted?
    Did you forget that his dad murdered everyone on earth and murdered thousands of innocent children in Egypt? The New Testament is all happy and cheery fairy tales, the Old Testament is the more accurate relevant story book.

    Though they are all fairy tales no matter how you slice them. True Believers just forgot to realize that Jesus is just as fictional as Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

  • Michael

    I am a Christian, and yes, the Bible is clearly opposed to it. The Bible also encourages Christians to love their neighbors as themselves, and honestly, none of my (Christian) friends hate gays; they are just opposed to their way of life. We believe that the most fulfilling life is found through following Jesus Christ and loving others, and that God obviously has a reason for opposing homosexuality. Yes, there are some Christians who actually do hate gays, but that is wrong, just as we believe that being gay is wrong. Those “Christians” constantly contradict themselves when they give hate speeches against gays. That is not who I want to be. I want to be someone who loves the people around me, but also stands up for my beliefs without being hateful. Unfortunately, many people in our culture seem to think that anybody who opposes homosexuality is a hater, but that is absolutely not true. That is a backwards way of thinking.

  • ralphtweety

    Yea, I would like to affirm some of the questions about definition of “hate” that are being posed here.  I wonder if we’ve got a pendulum-swinging-too-far thing going here.  Common sense alone would tell me that there is a vast difference between saying that I don’t agree with someone’s life style choices and advocating actions against those people or people groups.

    Traditional and protected American values allow me to voice non-call-to-action-oriented opinions for and against just about anything.  I understand that the unnecessarily-loud-mouthed and vehement rhetoric of certain people groups has once again made other people groups very uncomfortable – not surprisingly, but I’m coming to the realization that we have to be careful about fighting fire with fire in every situation that makes us feel threatened.  Big mouths always cause some to feel intimidated, but U.S. history has shown that, in this country, the effects generally don’t last very long where nothing more than raw, destructive, anger is being expressed, and in the end, most of the time, the conveyers of angry rhetoric end up making fools of themselves.

    Let’s remember that the GLBT community has constitutional rights that should not only be tolerated, but should be actively protected, by everyone – and in the same breath, let’s remember that not every Christian that disagrees with practicing alternative sexual life styles is a hater and buys into “The Pink Swastika…”  mentality.

    Okay enough of that for now.  Now let’s get along and be nice people – Dammit

  • Michael

    Are you God? … I didn’t think so. Your mind is finite, and so is your wisdom. God’s mind is infinite, and so is His wisdom. You’re not going to understand everything He does.

  • Morgan

    OK, I think Apple has the right to support or not support whomever they want.  However, if “hate” is the criteria, how about Apple pulling support form the LGBT movement which actually promotes hatred toward conservatives and christians who have opposing values?  How about pulling support from organizations that are openly anti-hetrosexuality?

    This is ridiculous – first that Apple as a corporation has decided to pick sides, and second that a technology blog would consider this relevant news.  I personally find this article promoting the anti-conservative and anti-hetrosexual mindset and would like to see Apple pull any support from CoM.

    Lame job Brownlee.

  • prof_peabody

    I remember when this thing started.  The CVN was added only due to customer requests at the time.  It’s not something Apple typically gets involved in.  Like everything else, Apple is different from almost all US companies in this regard.  They aren’t specifically “christian” like the rest of them and they don’t promote religion at work or religious causes like the rest do either.  Good for them! 

  • Michael Fermier

    I don’t know about CVN, so I can’t speak on their behalf.

    I would love to comment on the message the Christ promoted.  It was definitely kindness, and absolutely love, though not through tolerance, but through calling sinners (everyone) to repentance through faith in him.  Apart from Christ, no one is righteous, not church-goers or pedophiles.  We all have chosen to rebel against God.  So Jesus came to live the life we could not live and die the death we should have died so that we could put our faith in him as our substitute who took on the wrath of God we deserve.
    Christ didn’t come to tolerate our sin, but to call us into right-relationship with God through his redeeming work on the Cross.  He bought us back from death, and that is the most loving and kind thing he could do for us!

  • Barton Lynch

    so.. was my money going to these people or what? I don’t understand how Apple was involved 

  • Barton Lynch

    …who is anti-heterosexual? hahahahaha

  • wayzom

    Hate groups may be an unfortunate choice of phrase, but groups like Family Research Council do more then simply disagree with other’s life style. They use their money to actively oppose gay marriage, They actively oppose the appointment of homosexual people to government positions.

  • prof_peabody

    You’re being silly here, and you are using the vagueness of the term “opposing” to cover up a lot of detail.  

    If you mean “opposing” as in you personally oppose it, or that you don’t like it then that’s not spreading hate because you are keeping it to yourself.  If you mean “opposing” like writing books about how evil it is and how all homosexuals are bad etc. then yes, you are a “hater” and spreading hate by definition.  

    The groups in question are arguing that homosexuality is an abomination/disease that should be cured, wiped out or at best not tolerated by the “normals.”  How can anyone argue that and not be guilty of spreading hate?  

    The bible opposes homosexuality, but there is ample evidence that it didn’t always do so, given that some of the bits that have been edited out over the centuries are actually *pro* homosexuality. 

    The bible also opposes all kinds of other things in great detail that supposedly good christians do every day of the week however.  So you can quite literally pick and choose what you want to believe out of the Bible and most christians do this whether they are aware of it or not.  

    Ever been divorced?  There are more passages in the Bible that suggest stoning such sinners as you to death than there are passages that “oppose” homosexuality.

  • Joe Terzano

    “…values of love, tolerance and kindness that Christ actually promoted.” Hmmm… Christ was not very tolerant of sin at all. This should fly in the face of most secular companies and organizations. 
    As a christian I am not offended that Apple, Microsoft or any other group would not be interested in involving themselves in CVN. Heck, from the sound of the “Pink Swastika” book I don’t think I would want to be affiliated with them either.  Just don’t try and peg Jesus as some social justice leader because that is not who he was.

  • prof_peabody

    This made me laugh out loud. :-)  

    It’s so funny to be sitting here in the 21st century reading this on a computer and find this crushingly ignorant Medieval concept.  How can anyone believe such utter claptrap?  

  • Ryan Hoffman

    You oppose their way of life according to a book written by bronze age goat herders. Homosexuality has clear biological reasons for existing, and if you would pick up a science textbook- you know, something relevant to the century you’re living in, you would understand the genetic implications for homosexuality. You can’t love someone and yet deny them the same rights that you have. Denial of rights based upon unchangeable differences is hate. However you want to dress it up so you can sleep at night is up to you. 

  • MacGoo

    Well put. I no longer need to make this argument – you put it better than I could. I will simply say “me too!”

  • prof_peabody

    Homosexual panic is not a right/left thing.  Both Gay rights and women’s rights are actually human rights issues and closer to the racial debate than anything political.  

    The easiest way for all the Christians to understand what they are doing wrong here is to actually transpose the word “Gay” with “Negro,” and the word “Homosexual” with “Non-White.”  None of the statements people are making here will look very pretty then. 

    They will also look pretty much identical to what people used to say in 1964 about equal rights for blacks and in 1974 about equal rights for women.   

  • prof_peabody

    the LGBT movement … “promotes hatred towards conservatives and christians”?  

    I’d like to see someone prove that (or even provide a smidgen of evidence). 

  • MacGoo

    “Hate group” is a buzzword. It’s thrown around with far too little understanding (or concern) for what it means and who it’s applied to. I oppose homosexuality as a lifestyle, but one of my best friends is gay. My wife willingly submits to me as the spiritual head of our household, yet somehow we still manage to have a wonderful, fruitful, open marriage. The Christian ideals are NOT what makes a hate group hateful. It’s the misapplication and downright abuse of those ideals by fallible and misguided human beings that makes a hate group a hate group. Please keep that in mind, or you run the risk of being part of your very own hate group.

  • MacGoo
  • jdanny

    Damn good post.

  • MacGoo

    We are called to hate sin, but love the sinner. If the Bible defines it as sin then yes, it is wrong. So both homosexuality and divorce are equally wrong. Picking and choosing morality is every bit as wrong to boot. But thankfully we are not under condemnation under the new covenant put in place by Christ – we simply need to repent and try to change. So no stoning. Simply separation from God, which is abhorrant enough.

    As an aside, majority doesn’t rule in the Bible. Wrong is wrong, whether it’s stated one time or repeated throughout the text. I would also like to know what bits you think have been “edited out” over the years. The Bible has more ancient manuscripts than any other text in existence, which corroborate accuracy in translation.

  • Michael
  • al friede

    A-FUCKING-MEN!!! 

    the best way to deal with the right-wing religious idiocy is to simply ignore them even further into their radical corners. the right for gays to marry is no diff from women’s suffrage, blacks having the right to vote, non-land owners having the right to vote, the abolition movement, etc. it too shall pass, and we’ll all look back at this in the future and wonder what the fuck was wrong with people back in the early 2000′s. your rights end where other’s begin, therefore, you have no say so in other people’s lives you fucktards!if you’re an adult, and you still believe in the invisible man in the sky/jesus/god/gods/santa claus/easter bunny/tooth fairy/et al…. you really need a fucking reality check!!!

  • MacGoo
  • El1Jah

    Your heading shows you may be a little misinformed about what constitutes hate. The God described in the Bible and professed by Jesus clearly ‘hates’ sin and has defined it. Thus Jesus comes, not to condemn sinners but to lead them back to reconciliation by showing them God’s love through sacrifice. Not understanding this grace makes people assume God has amnesia or made up rules He is now regretting, so those who sin justify their position by invoking the ‘love’ clause. Just because there are verses in the Bible and Koran that are quite explicit in their stance on adultery, homosexuality, stealing and more, we might as well ban these holy books in the iTunes Store and stop being hypocritical about ‘Hate’ not being a Christian value! Romans 12:9 ‘Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good’ (NIV). Notice it does not say hate ‘whoever’ is evil!

  • gareth edwards
  • MacGoo

    Usually I highly respect your opinion Prof. But just because you’re quite astute at commenting on tech doesn’t mean you’re infinitely wise. While wh1tesn0w’s argument isn’t going to win over anyone trying to “think through” Christianity, to put it succinctly, neither will much else.

    Before understanding everything that God does, you need to understand who he is. You need to understand his motivation. You need to understand his position. He’s not your best friend – he’s your creator. Unfortunately, those who are opposed to God from the onset generally never get close enough to him to understand him. It takes commitment – and who will commit to learning about someone they judge as hateful? I pray you will some day – it will change your life if you do.

  • Hilton979

    Also, LMAO at any of you who believe this was some moral stand on apple’s part.  This was a business decision, and if they calculated that it would’ve hurt them financially, they wouldn’t have done it.  

    It’s a stupid decision, mainly because Apple has no problem with other ‘hate speech’.  But the funniest thing is watching fanboys slap apple on the back for taking a stand that wasn’t based on being pro-gay or anything.  It was business.  

  • Carson Rhodes

    I’m glad Apple showed it’s support for the LGBT community by removing their store from CVN, but this is the wrong way to go about it. It would be even better if CVN would end their associations with those five hate groups. You can sign a petition asking them to do that here: http://www.change.org/petition

  • Carson Rhodes

    I’m glad Apple showed it’s support for the LGBT community by removing their store from CVN, but this is the wrong way to go about it. It would be even better if CVN would end their associations with those five hate groups. You can sign a petition asking them to do that here: http://www.change.org/petition

  • MacGoo

    What an intellectually stimulating assertion…I’m convinced. And, not to put too fine a point on it, it was your repeated cursing that really convinced me. What creative combination of profanity and socially unacceptable terms like “retard”! Pure eloquence. I nominate you for president sir – you have the potential to be a true social revolutionary.

    The internet really needs a sarc mark.

  • MacGoo

    Well, WELL put. Thank you.

  • Brian

    Oh geeze a post mentioning religion on CoM and the wackjobs come out.

    What’s interesting is when I worked at the Apple store we had a large number of churches come in and buy gear. Apple is big in the religious community.

  • al friede

    you mean human rights! wal-mart has their own slave camp city there, and if you/we were truly concerned about it, you/we wouldn’t buy anything from any multi-national corporation that’s been taking advantage of NAFTA’s enslavement of 3rd world labor, passed by clinton and co. and put into force on january 1, 1994, including our beloved apple, inc. 

    just don’t buy MADE IN CHINA/TAIWAN/SINGAPORE/MEXICO/INDIA/PAKISTAN/et al

  • gareth edwards

    You know what, Jesus is mythical. Period.  In the sense that he may have existed but all the stories surrounding him were written after the fact. As far as I can tell the nearest contemporary records began in earnest 200+ years after he was doing what he was doing.  Ever since then Christianity (and a lot of other religions) have, as a matter of course, written their religious laws in an ongoing way, adding new, popular bits and removing unpopular ones and in some cases not even removing them, just ignoring them and pretending they don’t exist.

    The one central theme though is men wield the power, people who don’t follow the man made stories of a church are sinners and sinners are bad (to varying degrees of badness).

    Another central theme is the man made stories/laws are the word of god and are infallible. A very handy position to be in.

    Another nice position to be in is that religious people seem to think that morality is a direct output of being religious and that someone without religion cannot be moral.

    Personally I don’t do god. It’s a blind man’s crutch, a despot’s loaded gun and a fool’s argument.

    If it wasn’t for some mighty clever benders in Britain we wouldn’t have cracked the Enigma engine in WWII, enjoyed half as much great art (painters, writers, etc etc), you get the drift.

    So if Apple want’s to stop giving a slice of the pie to people who think they have a god given right to challenge how a man (or woman) rows his boat through life, more power to ‘em.

    There’s only one rule, ‘do as you would be done by’. Nice one Apple.

  • MacGoo

    Quite a lot of concrete assertions there – care to offer concrete evidence to back them up?

  • neatnate

    I find it ironic that a perceived intolerance is silenced with one’s practice of intolerance.

  • Jamal22

    ” So you can quite literally pick and choose what you want to believe out of the Bible and most christians do this whether they are aware of it or not. “

    That is exactly what gay people are doing. Those that choose to ignore what the Bible says about  homosexuality. 

    Typical double standard  by Apple and the gay community.

  • dale2000

    “if you oppose homosexuality, you’re defined as a “hater”? The Bible is clearly opposed to it.”

    1. The fact that the bible opposes it does not mean that all of society does.  Don’t forget your multicultural society that Apple is also part of.

    2. Facets of the Christian community practise more and less tolerance of homosexuality than others.  You’ve paraphrased the article to be a blanket rule, when I believe the point was that Apple removed themselves because /facets/ of the CVN community were inappropriately intolerant, not the entire thing.

    3. Please support your argument that this might be homosexual groups that are practising hate.  I would LOOOOVVVE to hear what you have to say on that…

  • dale2000

    Yes, by withdrawing their products from a particular market place, they are clearly inflicting horrible acts of torture and violence on innocent people.  What a beautiful connection you’ve drawn.

  • dale2000

    “Fascism never starts overnight; it creeps, vine by vine.’

    Sweet lord you’re on a roll!!  First the mock-Nazi torture slogan, now fascism.  Are you forgetting that Apple is not a government?  Also, are you forgetting that Apple is now no longer selling products through a particular distribution channel?  The effect of this is that they will make less money, ostensibly.  I’m not saying they’re the victim here, but they’re not the monster you’re portraying them to be.

    And don’t get me wrong… this is more than likely a cold blooded decision based on numbers: If they withdraw their products, they will get heat and lose sales from the stead-fast Christians.  If they leave their products on the market, they’ll be criticised as tolerating networks who support hate groups.   I’m sure they’ve seen this as a lose-lose for them and their customers, who may now actually have to go to the mall to buy their freaking iPod Touches.  What a horrible hellscape this has become!

  • Brian

    Simple fact is a large number of Americans equate the Bible to a series of fairy tales. It’s not picking and choosing, it’s simply not caring about your fantasy novel.

  • DJR

    I don’t know why anybody bothers trying to argue issues like this, and yet, here I go…. Christian churches have always reserved the right to comment on sexual morality. It’s interesting to me that the original article about this issue lumps together resistance to gay marriage and wanting a 1-year waiting period for divorce when people have children. In what sense is the latter a form of “hate”? Instead, the two things are related in that they relate to a definition of sexual morality that is profoundly at odds with society’s current take on it. 

    It is entirely possible that some Christians (as well as some non-Christians) do hate gay people, unfortunately. But most Christians would agree that hating anyone is not within the bounds of how their religion tells them to behave. I do think, though, that it is quite possible for someone, Christian or not, to believe that gay marriage is not advisable (just as they may think that divorce, say, is not advisable) without *hating* gay people or wishing them ill in any way. Just as someone may think that divorce is harmful to society without actually hating divorced people, I think it is possible for someone to oppose gay marriage or think that its ramifications for the institution of marriage are problematic without hating gay people or wishing them harm in any way. 

    It’s for that reason that some people say that the pro-gay-marriage side of this debate is as strident and unreasonable as they accuse the other side of being. To some people, you’re either pro gay marriage or you are a perpetrator of hate crimes. I believe there is plenty of middle ground, and it would be nice if, for once, people would actually be civil instead of accusing each other of being evil all the time. 

  • James Campbell-Harris

    Well said- The christians of America need to grow up and join modern society- Nothing more disgusting than a righteous Christian — They truly are the problem with America. — Can we get back to talking about computers now?

  • James Campbell-Harris

    well said– History can back you up.

  • James Campbell-Harris

    read a history book

  • sincarne

    I’m fairly certain you’re not really looking for links commenting on the behaviour of the groups in question, but I’ll provide them. They were in the linked article. You can find the whole roll-up here:

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-i

  • Cindon83

    Can you point us to the biological reasons…oh enlightened one…some have mad observations…but they are NOT consistent, and are not definitive…and are not trustworthy, and many of the so called proofs have been proven false scientifically…So what happens when people do a study and prove that pedophiles are born that way? Are you not going to stand in the way of their happiness…or deny them the same rights that everyone else has based on the unchangeable differences, or are you just a hater?

  • Cindon83

    Ok…enough is enough….this is a computer technology forum that last I checked..I said my peace not lets move on

  • Phos…. FourDots

    Maybe some sweet sentiment, but it’s still cloaked in superstitious bunk.

  • MacGoo

    Lazy man’s answer. Don’t rant if you can’t provide proof – you have the burden.

  • Christian Park

    Well Champ, the thing is there is a difference between 2 same-sex CONSENTING adults who want to marry than, 1 adult and a child who is under the age of 18 who cannot make decisions for themselves. There’s a reason why you cannot get married before 18 unless your parents sign off on it, & with that being said there also is a limited frame which you can get married. What I mean by that is, that if a 6 year old wanted to marry a 40year old & their parents consented they still would NOT be able to marry. I believe the cut-off is 16-17 years old and able to have consent to marry. Also your comparison was quite horrible.

  • MacGoo

    Hidden among the snide remarks are gems like this – thank you for your level-headedness. You’ve nailed the majority of Christianity down pretty well.

  • Cindon83

    So one perversion is better than the other, because 2 conscenting adults are involved.  Nothing in nature has “same sex” (except for those that can reproduce on their own having both set of organs) one argument would have to be common sense…the plumbing does’t match up…even in electronics and plumbing you have one male and one female.  And yes my comparison was quite horrible, it was just to show the absurdity of perverted thinking. While you talk about the laws, they are different from state to state…there is NO set federal law on marriage. 

  • Lorna Hester Hawkins

    Man, you haven’t ever watched my ducks! Yes, the males f*ck the males… all the time! Nothing in nature, huh? Grow up, man, and get an education before you flap your jaws!!!

  • Ryan Hoffman

    There have been years of peer reviewed research in the field of biology, not only among humans, but other mammals linked to us in evolution. Feel free to use Google. 

    As for your pedofile comment, you are pretty much proving my point for me. It is perversion to you, because you’ve been told by a bunch of people that thought the Earth was flat that it is perversion. A seven year old with an internet connection today has a broader world view and greater world experience than anyone who wrote the Bible. You’re free to believe whatever you want, but you’re not free to tell two adults what to do with their sex life or marital life for that matter. And I’m also free to tell you that your Santa Claus beliefs are absolutely ridiculous, and have no basis in telling anybody how to live their lives in the 21st century.

  • Cassandra

    You’re fairly certain?  And you know that how?  Well, you know that because the link you provided is to a thoroughly corrupt group, the SPLC, that spends its considerable resources targeting what it calls “hate groups” that other, more normal people call differing opinions.  The SPLC has an offshore account worth countless tens of millions of dollars that it’s gotten from people who don’t realize that neo-Nazis and the KKK are all but dead in this country.  And because they are, the SPLC targets Christian groups…but interestingly, by design, never Muslim groups–you know, the ones that are unabashed in their desire to establish a caliphate in which the USA would become an Islamic state (Google it).  More to the point, there were no real examples in the link provided, just a list of names.  Another sheep.  Say baaa, dude.

  • Mike Thomson

    JB – Your privilege is showing.  I was enjoying your article right up until the completely unnecessary last paragraph.  Christianity is about as peaceful and loving as Islam.  The only difference is that you lack the courage of your conviction.Matthew 10:34 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. “

  • Cassandra

    “Mock-nazi torture slogan”?  WTF is that?  No, Apple isn’t a government, and if you noticed I wasn’t accusing Apple of violating the First Amendment or of being monstrous.  What I said was, if all it takes to get an app or affiliation bumped is an accusation by a self-interested group, the road leads off a cliff.  Once upon a time, hate groups were those that espoused the slaughter/murder/torture/imprisonment of people they didn’t like.  Nowadays, all you have to do is use words that hurt someone’s feelings.  Tolerance and intolerance have been turned on their heads.  That’s the kind of Orwellian logic that makes Apple’s 1984 ad so painfully ironic now.  By the way, Apple is probably more powerful than most governments of the world. 

  • Cassandra

    And what an unsupple intelligence you display.  You Apple fanboys are really something.  If I were Steve, I’d be embarrassed by my defenders.

  • dale2000

    Wow.”And what an unsupple intelligence you display.”
    I don’t know which dictionary you’re using, but I’m unfamiliar with “unsupple.”

    “You Apple fanboys are really something.”

    Your plan is masterful: 1- Make a RIDICULOUS implication.  2- Wait for someone to call you on it.  3- Make the assumption of, and lambast them for being a fanboy.  4- ???  5- Profit!

    “If I were Steve, I’d be embarrassed by my defenders.”

    If only your intelligence was as unsupple as mine, you too could be a defender of Steve!  Just to be clear, I was attacking your ridiculous exaggeration of the situation, which would have been just as ridiculous for any other company.  I do happen to enjoy Apple products, but I still would have found your statement troll-ish at best, mildly retarded at worst regardless of your target.

  • dale2000

    >> “Mock-nazi torture slogan”?  WTF is that?

    Short memory? It was in the post that you made prior to the one I replied to.

    >> Old slogan: “Think different”.  New slogan: “Ve have vays to make you conform.”

    Maybe I’m crazy, but that sounds like you’re putting on a German accent in text.  The statement itself sounds threatening in a manner that would be most familiar to people as the promise of extorting information from a prisoner using torture as the method.  And the combination of the two can’t help but stir images of SS soldiers during world war 2.  So, that’s TF that.  Prove to me that you were trying to elicit images of something else and I’ll apologize.

    So far, you’ve hit the Troll-nail on the head twice.As for the rest of your comment, I believe you misread the article.   It didn’t suggest that a self-interested group made any accusations.  Instead, it said that companies withdrew from a market due to the markets ASSOCIATION with groups that are intolerant of the rights of other groups.

  • gareth edwards

    penguins & chimps, all on the record, all recently reported in the mainstream media.

  • gareth edwards

    hahahahahaha, so he’s a he is he? Glad that’s all sorted then.

  • Michael

    Just so you know, the Bible isn’t against any of the things you mentioned above – except for homosexuality. That’s why so many Christians are opposed to it. Also, you could really do without the cursing. Your argument would at least be a little convincing without it.

  • gareth edwards

    No Goober, lazy man’s answer is to say ‘because god said so’.

    As for burden, I think some of that weight should be shouldered by the religious community when it comes to proof. Faith is baseless, unprovable hogwash by definition. And when James says read a history book he’s quite right, go educate yourself. Might do you the world of good.

  • dale2000

    So the SPLC used the KKK and other “all but dead” groups to further its goals?  You’re right, that’s pretty shameful.  You know what else is shameful?  That a leader of one of the groups that the CVN supports wrote a book called “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.”  And I didn’t have to go to any other links to find that information.  It’s in the freaking article.  Doesn’t that leader know that the Nazi movement is “all but dead?”

    Oh well, so much for THAT argument.  What else have you got?

  • gareth edwards

    come on, it’s nice to break up the never ending stream of mac chat with some stone throwing. :)

  • Dan Knight

    Hate is not a Christian value, nor should it be a family value, feminist value, or GLBT value. Jesus calls his followers to love each other, love this broken world, and bring his peace to those who are wounded. He never called us to condemn others or even shun fellow believers with whom we disagree (“treat them as sinners” meant trying to love them into the Kingdom of God!). The hate mongers have their own human agendas; they are following someone other than Jesus Christ.

  • James White

    No it can’t!  Have a look at when the books of the New Testament were thought to be written, decades not centuries after.  And look at the writings about Jesus by the Roman historian Josephus (most of his stuff is free through iBooks), that was eye witness non-Christian account written at the time. Feel free to deny who Jesus claimed he was but don’t make out that he didn’t exist or say the things he did!

  • Cassandra

    Seriously?  Writing about homosexuality in the (German) Nazi party is something we Americans should be frightened of.  The SPLC is in business to make money for its founders, nothing more.  Any good they might have done 40 years ago has been overshadowed by their shameless pandering to old people frightened of Stormtroopers on their doorsteps.  But as I said, the one honest-to-goodness hate group that might legitimately get their attention they intentionally (and admittedly) avoid covering.  Please, name something serious that corresponds to hate, not something that offends a PC sensibility.

  • Cassandra

    Which brings me back to my original comment.  Apple is more than associated with the Chinese government that executes a thousand prisoners a year and sends a bill for the bullet that kills them to the family.  It forces women to abort children and enforces other truly unconscionable laws.  What would you say to a jingoist group that wants to boycott all companies that have a presence in China?  Simply put, you’d say they were wrong.  The Family Resource Council, or whatever is called, is a lot more benign presence on this earth than the ruling party of China.  It’s utterly arbitrary where the line is drawn re “hate”. 

  • dale2000

    So far, you’ve labelled Apple as close to fascism, nazi Germany and china’s 1 child policy. I’d say you’re insane…ly consistent with your insane inferences. If I were to use a word to describe this skill you’ve developed, I’d say it’s “unsupple.”

    Well done sir, I believe you won a few internets with this argument. Then again, I like where the arbitrary line is drawn in our western world.

  • Cassandra

    You just demonstrated that arguments you don’t like can be labeled Troll-like or hateful.  You must be proud to have disproved your own argument by making it.

  • Cassandra

    I wonder if you know that the abolition and civil-rights movements were both religiously based.

  • dale2000

    Ok, once “I know you are but what am I” gets busted out, I know the argument is sour.

  • OMFGitsJUSTIN

    I’m gay for Steve Jobs. 

  • Dreamgrifter Films

    Behavior is not genetic, it is learned through environmental influences.  Creating “protected” classes based on behavior is extremely dangerous.  Equating behavioral choices to civil rights issues is even more dangerous.  Denying moral authority is just insane.

    That’s what my reply boils down to with all the fluff and sarcasm removed.

  • diesel-benz

    So because “god” knows more than you, genocide is totally excusable?

  • Dilbert A

    “You Apple fanboys …”

    Are you lost?

  • Dilbert A

    lmao

  • Dilbert A

    “This was a business decision …” 
    I have no problem with that.

  • Dilbert A

    wiki? seriously?

  • Brandon Dillon

    First off, how rare is that? Secondly, I guarantee there is something mentally wrong with the animals, and third, keep comparing yourself to animals. It really makes you look good.

  • Brandon Dillon

    If you’re right, no big deal. If James, whitesnow, and myself are right… well, “I told you so”.

    You can bring whatever non-credited “research” into this discussion as you please. Also, nobody is telling you you can’t get your fudge packed. We are simply stating what we believe, which is the Bible. If you want to romp with another man, then by all means do so. I don’t believe any couple, hetero or homo, should be flaunting it in public, so as long as people do that, no one is really going to have any problems.

    As for the 21st Century comment, yeah, most people have lost their morals in this day and age. Keep flaunting it.

  • Cindon83

    Were NOT ANIMALS..now who needs to grow up…dog hump legs…that doesn’t mean they are human. You ducks also do females right?

  • Cindon83

    once again they are not exclusive 

  • Cindon83

    Every report says their findings are not conclusive…read them with intelligence 

  • Sean Brassman

    Josephus was born 37 A.D.. As I remember it that would put his birth after the death of Christ. He certainly was not an eyewitness to any miracles. He’s repeating the stories his been told of the faith he adopted. Not a good source.

  • diesel-benz

    Yes. If “god” were female then she would have given birth to her son. Also, the story of Christianity was written in the middle-east by goat herders around 300AD, no man in that region and time would have ever considered giving a woman any kind of authority.

  • diesel-benz

    Also, from Genesis; “God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness”. So there it is, from the 4th line of your very own Bible.

  • David Brewster

    point of fact: Josephus doesn’t record miracles of Christ. Barely makes mention of him, really. More of an aside that some thing may have been added by translators. The research I’ve read on those parts is very old, very incomplete (IMO) and very speculative — basically added into the notes of my hardcopies.

    The deal with Josephus is that his writings of history corroborates a great deal of the historical bits of the New Testament. I’ve been reading them through the iBooks, even though I’ve had hardcopies for years. The in-fighting of Herod’s family in The Wars of the Jews could have gotten them on Springer.

    Anyway, I’ll let you all get back to your battle.

  • RedeemedOne

    Well said, Michael.   Christians do not hate people, nor are we a hate religion.   We are about emulating the values taught by Christ for a righteous life and that include loving our fellow man, which does not mean tolerating unacceptable behaviors in the sight of God.  He is our Creator and his law is absolute.

  • ben rattigan

    Tut Tut, the BBC was a member! This not only breaks the BBC’s own guidelines but also its Royal Charter. They kept this one quiet.

  • MacGoo

    Glad that’s the main thing you got out of that – telling. Thanks.

  • MacGoo

    Absolute statements massacre context. This is similar to the Pharisees trying to pen in Jesus by asking if Jews should pay tax to Caesar: There is no good answer. Answering yes would allow you to make me out to be a Nazi sympathizer, while saying no would make me look like a hypocrite. 

    So let me take a page (pun intended) out of Jesus’ book, and answer thus: Consider God on God’s terms, and Man on Man’s terms.

    God is an all-powerful being. He is a loving God, but he is so much greater than humanity that it is truly beyond comprehension (which is a horrible, bad tasting concept for humanists to contemplate). Genocide is a human term that has been applied to God in order to vilify him – and when addressed from a human perspective, perhaps rightly so. But that human perspective is flawed from the onset – Yes, God flooded the earth and killed the majority of humanity. But we are his creation, and it is his prerogative to do with us as he pleases. 

    And that’s precisely why it’s so thrilling that rather than acting on his anger again, he has chosen to save us from our sins through the blood of Christ. I pray you consider this, although I’m not holding out hope.

  • MacGoo

    Wow. What out of context nonsense. NOT true.

  • MacGoo

    Your problem being? If you don’t like the site, follow the sources and do the research yourself. It’s just a starting point. Prof requested “a smidgen” and so I provided just that. I responded fast with little research in order to provide proof that it was also easy to find such “smidgens” out there.

  • MacGoo

    Appreciate the Andy Griffith reference – really cinched your argument in my opinion. All well-worded rebuttals should start of with a nice, solid slur. Undermining the perceived intellect of your opponent serves to elevate your own postulations with little necessary effort on your own part, relative to the real effort of putting together a tight, well though out refutation.

    I’ll gladly shoulder some of the proof. But it would have to be considered, rather than dismissed with a casual wave of your hand, as many are prone to doing.

  • MacGoo

    Hehe – he likes to do that. He brings others down in order to appear elevated. But it’s just perception.

  • MacGoo

    Josephus never adopted Christianity. He died a Jew by all accounts, which was more at odds with Christ’s message than almost any other demographic. Seems like an objective point of view if ever there was one.

  • Dilbert A

    Right, because you did. lol.

  • No

    Eat a dick you ignorant bitch

About the author

John BrownleeJohn Brownlee is a Contributing Editor. He has also written for Wired, Playboy, Boing Boing, Popular Mechanics, VentureBeat, and Gizmodo. He lives in Boston with his girlfriend and two parakeets. You can follow him here on Twitter.

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